For those who went to music school, was it worth it?

[Bop Head]

You need a band to play techno?

Why actually not?

[DawgBone]

I went for a couple years. No guitar program though. It was ok but not really worth it for someone like me. Truthfully I had zero bad experiences with the music program people or students. A couple seniors were jerks that didn't really phase me. It wasn't a competitive environment. It was a bunch of kids going to school to teach music. Wouldn't go to school again, ever.

[JazzerEU]

When I read posts from a German accusing Jews of genocide (anyone who thinks what is going on in Gaza amounts to a genocide is an idiot who clearly doesn't know what an actual genocide is), it reminds me that we live in a world where facts no longer matter.

Music schools? Music education? I have a degree in Music (Minor) and Economics (Major) from NYU. The head of the Economics department told me that he had never seen an Econ major who minored in music before me. I told him that the Econ was building a pedigree for future employment while the music was something I actually liked. He did not seem too pleased with my explanation. I did find the mostly classical training I received at University back in the mid 70's to be very valuable in my musical journey.

I have never experience any bullying from other musicians (if any ever tried, I would have "tuned them up" in short order) and the concept of death threats from pianists borders on the absurd. To the OP, perhaps boxing lessons or Marshal arts instruction might have been in order back in the day for you? Bullies only pick on those who won't or can't fight back.

I actually took Krav Maga classes when I was at university to stay in shape and a girl I liked went to the same gym. I never had to use my training during university. During a jam session post-college, a horn player didn’t take it kindly when I used chord solos when trading eights with him on Oleo. He said he was going to kill me for making him look bad. I told him I was leaving and to leave me alone and he and two of his drunk friends began to follow me out of the bar to my car. I had a heavy Peavey T60 guitar and used it to, let’s say convince them to leave me alone when they kept following me to my car. That night, it lost some value and needed cleaning.

On the topic of music schools, some points have been made about getting connections is just as important as improving as a musician. This is such a key component in what you get out of music school. It’s better to graduate with friends who have connections, whose friends have connections, than graduate with nobody in our corner. If you can forge fraternity and brotherhood/sisterhood while at university, those connections can pay off. I learned the hard way of power in numbers when us guitarists and singers were vastly outnumbered by the others. It’s better to graduate with more allies and people in your corner than graduate with a target on your back. If it wasn’t for my family coming town for the graduation ceremony, I would’ve just slept through it and gone to the beach.

Scout out universities if you’re looking to go to music school. Contact alumni and current students to determine what kind of culture the school has. If it’s open season on guitarists like where I went to, don’t even bother applying there or visiting there no matter how good the campus, facilities, and faculty may be. I just don’t want young musicians who might not have a plan for life after music to go to a university with a toxic culture, study music, pay full tuition, and end up with nothing at the end of it all. Things could’ve ended up really bad if I hadn’t gotten the hell out of the country by the end of my career.

[bediles]

Block chords, Red!

[Stevebol]

My parents knew academia would eat me alive. They were classical pianists. Mom said go run with gangsters.
It's safer. I wound up in Japan. That was pretty great.

[JazzerEU]

If I ever had a kid, I wouldn't let him or her go into jazz music. Jazz music won't be played around the house at all. It's too dangerous of an industry and it will beat you down to the ground figuratively and in some cases literally. If he or she wanted to go into any other genre of music, I'd 100% support them. My last year before I retired, I worked with a pop singer in France. My experience there was a complete 180 from my stomping grounds back in the US working the jazz scene. In Nice, France, the pop music scene wasn't like it was back home where it was the Mogadishu City of jazz (I won't name the city where I worked in the US, I still have family there and while my parents and family members are responsible gun owners and NRA members, I don't want to put them in danger). No death threats, no instances of being accosted, no bricks thrown through my window. Unfortunately, as amazing of an experience it was working with that singer, my passion for music had already taken a hit from years before. I would be playing a gig and I'd find myself drifting off and thinking about something else despite the two of us playing very well. At that point, I knew it was time to retire and hang the cleats up for good.

[CliffR]

I'm reminded of my time in astrophysics school. There was a bunch of goths who called themselves the 'Dark Matters'. They'd go around bullying anyone who refused to believe the dark matter phenomenon was particle-based rather than possibly a result of an unknown modification to the law of gravity. They'd leave ink squibs in our lunchboxes. I remember they were egged on by some guy with an obviously fake name - sounded like an old car model or something - who claimed to be a stranded extra terrestrial. I remember once, after closing time at the pub, one of the Dark Matters shattered a pint glass against the wall and held the shards to my mate's throat because of an argument about the Hubble Constant. We talked him down, and after he wandered off and hijacked a double-decker London bus and drove himself home. This was his second time doing the same thing, and it made the national news. He got off because the judge was uncertain whether or not he'd been conscious at the time.

JazzerEU - apologies, this was just a silly attempt at humour, and I didn't mean to diminish the awful experiences you've had at music school in the US.

[Stevebol]

I'm reminded of my time in astrophysics school. There was a bunch of goths who called themselves the 'Dark Matters'. They'd go around bullying anyone who refused to believe the dark matter phenomenon was particle-based rather than possibly a result of an unknown modification to the law of gravity. They'd leave ink squibs in our lunchboxes. I remember they were egged on by some guy with an obviously fake name - sounded like an old car model or something - who claimed to be a stranded extra terrestrial. I remember once, after closing time at the pub, one of the Dark Matters shattered a pint glass against the wall and held the shards to my mate's throat because of an argument about the Hubble Constant. We talked him down, and after he wandered off and hijacked a double-decker London bus and drove himself home. This was his second time doing the same thing, and it made the national news. He got off because the judge was uncertain whether or not he'd been conscious at the time.

JazzerEU - apologies, this was just a silly attempt at humour, and I didn't mean to diminish the awful experiences you've had at music school in the US.

That was awesome.

[JazzerEU]

Damn, the head of the astrophysics must've had some questions from law enforcement. That's unfortunate that fool didn't see any prison time. Off topic, but in my home country, in the last 10 years or so, we've let criminals roam wild in the open streets because of soft on crime policies. As a result we've seen an unprecedented spike in violent crime in the last decade because police funding has been slashed. When there's less police on the streets, criminals know they are more likely to get away.

Anyways, I'll leave it at that. During my time at university, while there were fights, none of it materialized into criminal charges being filed. One student in the department allegedly raped another female student in the department and was ultimately never charged. The prosecution must've felt like they didn't have enough evidence to get a guilty plea or win in court. She was bullied by the rest of the department and then transferred to a different university. We were never close but I heard through some guitarists I keep in touch with from university that she eventually died from a fentanyl overdose. Ultimately, this boils down to the profit motives of the university. I was given a survey a few years ago asking me about my time at this university and I had the option to respond on the basis without making my identity known. I didn't hold any punches back. The department chairs of these music departments have to see themselves like college football coaches developing players, instilling morals and ethics, and taking disciplinary action when there are incidents of personal misconduct and at the bare minimum have a personal code of conduct that everyone signs. Anything that would threaten a department losing a student would never be considered at profit driven universities because one student kicked out of the program for personal misconduct would usually mean less funding for the department.

[Christian Miller]

I'm reminded of my time in astrophysics school. There was a bunch of goths who called themselves the 'Dark Matters'. They'd go around bullying anyone who refused to believe the dark matter phenomenon was particle-based rather than possibly a result of an unknown modification to the law of gravity. They'd leave ink squibs in our lunchboxes. I remember they were egged on by some guy with an obviously fake name - sounded like an old car model or something - who claimed to be a stranded extra terrestrial. I remember once, after closing time at the pub, one of the Dark Matters shattered a pint glass against the wall and held the shards to my mate's throat because of an argument about the Hubble Constant. We talked him down, and after he wandered off and hijacked a double-decker London bus and drove himself home. This was his second time doing the same thing, and it made the national news. He got off because the judge was uncertain whether or not he'd been conscious at the time.

JazzerEU - apologies, this was just a silly attempt at humour, and I didn't mean to diminish the awful experiences you've had at music school in the US.

Did they inhabit a sort of Demi-Mond?

Good grief kill me now.


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[Christian Miller]

I'm reminded of my time in astrophysics school. There was a bunch of goths who called themselves the 'Dark Matters'. They'd go around bullying anyone who refused to believe the dark matter phenomenon was particle-based rather than possibly a result of an unknown modification to the law of gravity. They'd leave ink squibs in our lunchboxes. I remember they were egged on by some guy with an obviously fake name - sounded like an old car model or something - who claimed to be a stranded extra terrestrial. I remember once, after closing time at the pub, one of the Dark Matters shattered a pint glass against the wall and held the shards to my mate's throat because of an argument about the Hubble Constant. We talked him down, and after he wandered off and hijacked a double-decker London bus and drove himself home. This was his second time doing the same thing, and it made the national news. He got off because the judge was uncertain whether or not he'd been conscious at the time.

JazzerEU - apologies, this was just a silly attempt at humour, and I didn't mean to diminish the awful experiences you've had at music school in the US.

Tbf I never told you about the time a guy I knew (sax player) threatened Ray Davies when he was rude about Belgium. There’s more to the story.

That’s as fruity as it gets and it’s all vicarious and I wasn’t even there. My experiences have been rather boring.


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[JazzerEU]

Tbf I never told you about the time a guy I knew (sax player) threatened Ray Davies when he was rude about Belgium. There’s more to the story.

That’s as fruity as it gets and it’s all vicarious and I wasn’t even there. My experiences have been rather boring.


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Man, back in my home town, if someone insulted a senior musician, that would be a career ender. They would be placed on a black list where no other senior or established musician would hire him or her. If anyone else was caught gigging with someone on the blacklist they’d be put on it.

At one jam session one senior musician pulled me aside by my arm after having played a chord solo said he’d put me on the black list if I didn’t stop the chord solos. I told him I would, I would be a good boy and only play single notes. I wasn’t going to let this pianist who didn’t know how to chord solo tell me what to do. Next song, I got up onstage and did 1.5 choruses of block chord solos before this guy unplugged my amp and stopped the entire song to tell everyone I was black listed. The others starting swearing and yelling at me telling me to get out and one threw his empty beer glass hitting me in the head. One drummer who was loyal to this established musician took a piece his drum hardware and made his way towards me with it held high saying he was going to kill me with the other musicians giving me hostile looks. I ditched my amp, took my guitar and ran to the back exit and ran to my car and started to drive away before they could do any more harm to me. After that night six years ago, I stopped going to jam sessions altogether and knew even further I’d have to leave the country.

I halfway joke that firearms proficiency, self defense and close quarters combat, fitness and cardio training, defensive driving, would’ve been a lot more useful than music history and the guitar fundamentals classes I had to take for what was to come post university.