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Let's hear your tales, good and bad, from the bandstand about bandleaders.
To do and to don't.
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05-07-2024 02:51 PM
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The primary thing for a bandleader is fostering positive attitudes among the musicians and never criticizing someone before a performance. Bandleaders that pay their musicians in advance as they arrive for the gig understand this (and it naturally suppresses dusting things up before down beat).
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Paid before the gig! Are they paying out of pocket? I've only been paid by the venue after the gig.
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Blimey. I’ve been going about this all wrong.
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Back in my day as a professional musician before I retired and left the profession in 2020, the bandleader was usually whoever the person who organized the gig, gets the payment from the client that gets dispersed to us. There's all different types of bandleaders. Ones who were like drill sergeants and will micro manage everyone were initially a challenge to deal with, but once I learned to shallow my ego and follow orders with a "yes sir" and "affirmative sir" those sorts of gigs went smoothly. The great bandleaders always asked for the input of the entire band and created an environment where everyone felt comfortable chiming in. The few times I was a bandleader, I would just let the guys, usually bassists, drummers, and singers, I called play/sing how they play. I called them because they played/sing like themselves and that's who and what I was hiring. If I hired people who were a little less experienced, usually drummers who were heavy handed, I'd most I'd ask them would be to play quieter, or if my only option was a really heavy handed drummer, I'd say the gig was brushes only like Ahmad Jamal "Live At The Pershing".
The biggest duty of the bandleader was always paying the musicians under his command on time. In the scene I worked in, a bandleaders reputation could be destroyed overnight if he didn't pay his or her musicians on time.
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Seems to me there are two kinds of leadership.
One is on the business side and the other is about musical direction.
Around here, a lot of good players play jazz gigs for less than a living wage. Some of the bandleaders guarantee the sidemen a set fee, others do a split. Most don't take a leader fee unless the gig is relatively high paying.
In a situation where players are, in effect, partially donating their time, the leader organizes the gigs and needs to make sure everybody is enjoying themselves. Otherwise, the sidemen may not be available next time.
Organizing the gigs encompasses a bunch of tasks. Marketing, booking, checking out the venues, hiring the players, planning the sound reinforcement, preparing a set list, sending out charts (if necessary) and organizing rehearsals, if any. Also, interacting with the client. Sometimes it's managing egos, including your own.
Then, there's the musical direction. Sometimes that's easy, but sometimes everything is a discussion or an argument.
When the players are earning good fees, it seems to me that they should allow the leader to lead. If the fees are low, I have more sympathy for a sideman to voice an opinion about what they want to do - to an extent.
That's enough for one post.
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IME, the bandleader is the one who brings the power strip
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Side note:
One of the things you learn from playing in larger groups, e.g. octets to big band is that the experienced sidemen don't often voice opinions.
They know that if the dam breaks, everyone in the room will have an opinion and the session will grind to a halt.
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Wow, good stuff!
I have never function as a bandleader, indeed that's not my inclination anyway. As a sideman, I like it when the band leader is clear about what he or she wants and knows how to describe it effectively. If there are specific arrangement things, it's nice to have that clear before the downbeat. I appreciate getting paid promptly and with minimal fuss and muss.
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I only have stories of sidemen and bad venues since I have mostly been a bandleader since the 90s. Only did a couple gigs as a sideman for a short time. My only expectations are know the material, have good meter, have a good attitude/want to be there, be on time, and don't let drugs/booze wreck your chops. If can't do that I don't call you back. Most guys can't do that, they fail in one or two areas.. I don't really want to deal with guys who don't have table manners either and I also like people who answer their phones/texts and don't mind short notice work.
Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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Ok. Ok. I take this to another level. I took my tip from Duke Ellington on how to keep a band. Pay them. These days I rarely take a leadership fee. If so it’s to round off. It’s very important to me to maintain a band. I pay them a small monthly to rehearse once a week. I write the music and set musical goals. I get the gigs, record the band. Production keeps morale high so I want to keep the band motivated and excited about being in the band. I make sure communication is open but also that the guys don’t flake. Be on time and learn the music.
Big rule: what happens in the band room stays in the band room. Don’t talk shit about ANYBODY. But if we talk about each other or other musicians it NEVER leaves the band room. This is what tends to end bands. Talking shit behind others - especially about the leader behind his back. It’s just what people do. Talk shit about the boss. So I keep things light and fun. I’m a funny guy. Not at all serious so it makes playing with me easy. But those few times I’m driven to get angry the contrast is big and everyone stops. But I get respect because I respect everyone else in the band.
We don’t gig a whole bunch but we get paid pretty well when we do. No $50-100 gigs. Because we don’t play a lot we tend to sell out. Keeps the morale high.
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In Buffalo it was the drug dealer.
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I played and stayed for ten years in a leaderless rock band of brothers ...
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I think you have to be flexible. You might have a bandleader who runs everything. You might have one but everyone has roles to play.
There might not be a bandleader. I've never been one. I know it's not easy. I don't think I have the temperament for it.
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I got in a fight with a bandleader one time. It was a musician fight. Huffing and puffing. A test of strength. I was at fault. That was 40 years ago and I haven't been in a fight since then. It's not the way to go. Originally Posted by henryrobinett
I can't believe anyone would think this was staged;
That flat earth society must love it. Perry needs a rest. They had to cancel the tour.
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Band form attacking band leaders or anybody in the band. Help, not attack. It's a sign of insecurity and ONLY causes division and ultimately is the cause of breakups. The same for any group or relationship. In the last 7 years since I've instigated this rule, and as far as I know, members followed it, we've had almost zero problems. The ONE issue was when someone was caught talking shit about me. He thought it was funny, but it wasn't. Next rehearsal I laid out the ground rules again. Everyone understood and agreed. And an apology.
Last edited by henryrobinett; Yesterday at 05:34 PM.
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I started the thread as a band leader to see what the hired players like and don’t like. So I can do my job better.
I started as a band leader, no hired gun experience.
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Oops. Sorry. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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I was always impressed how our big band leader could sip his pint and rhythmically cue the bones.
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Now that I’ve had a taste of running the band and playing in another bar band. I prefer to be in charge. Originally Posted by Stevebol
The big band is good too, it’s run by a bunch of music teachers so everything goes smoothly.
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I see it as a sign of human greatness if it is possible to make mistakes (of course not all the time) and to apologize. No one is perfect. From what I have read in the other posts most would not have hesitated long and kicked that person out. Originally Posted by henryrobinett
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I thought he was salvageable. It all depended upon how he reacted to being caught and outed publicly and dealing with my anger. And I used it in the band as an example WHY you NEVER talk shit, even if you think it's funny, about people in the band. He got it. I hope. Life is about learning lessons. Originally Posted by Bop Head
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What are you a gangster rap group? I'm kidding. It sounds like you were hot. Originally Posted by henryrobinett
Bandleaders were very happy to get rid of me back in 1980's California. I think I was in 4-5 bands in one year.
I had to be a labor relations consultant in Osaka for 6 months. I couldn't get the two sides to negotiate and we hit an impasse.
California was too stressful for me. I went back to Buffalo.
I probably shouldn't name names. A crime boss in Osaka was on the warpath. I met him in late 1985. I bailed on everything in early 86'.
People in Japan called him an 'economic yakuza'. The people prefer the more colorful enforcer.
Recent history is more favorable to the economic yakuza but there's no going back.
Someone has to be the grown up in the room. Just before we left our drummer's father said- please look after my son.Last edited by Stevebol; Today at 01:04 PM.
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Stevebol - sounds like you’ve had quite the colorful life. Need to write a book!
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I try to sort out the past here. It's therapy. Originally Posted by henryrobinett
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Today, 06:34 PM in From The Bandstand