Anything that speaks against stainless steel frets?

[DonEsteban]

I just had my Mensinger guitar re-fretted with stainless steel frets, changed a mediocre guitar to a very good one.

They never wear, no more re-fretting for a lifetime etc.

So why don't people go more for it? Are there any serious back draws?

(Apart from the costs)

[alltunes]

the only drawback is that they’re very difficult to work with from the installer’s standpoint
some people say they are too bright sounding, but I haven’t noticed the difference

[ruger9]

the only drawback is that they’re very difficult to work with from the installer’s standpoint
some people say they are too bright sounding, but I haven’t noticed the difference

This is it exactly. When I had my #1 tele refretted a 2nd time, I went with SS because I love this neck, and didn't want to have to refret it again in my lifetime, risking more damage. I noticed maybe a 5% increase in brightness. Barely noticeable. Alot of people who only play at home quietly will notice it more, and maybe make a big deal out of it. It is not, especially considering the benefits:

-last forever
-plays like butter: super-smooth like glass, no polishing or maintenance required (of course this may not matter much to you neanderthal non-string-benders LOL)

If I had a luthier I really trusted, and who could do timely work, I would refret ALL my guitars- including my acoustics- with SS, whether they needed a refret or not. THAT's how much of a "better mousetrap" SS frets are IMO.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I ordered my Raines Tele 7 with SS frets and have had it for a few years. The main problem with SS is that it requires different tools and techniques to install and set up. So unless the frets are cut, contoured, installed, leveled, crowned and polished by someone who knows what he or she is doing, the setup will be less than perfect. Regular cutting and finishing tools will not work with precision. Even minor things like a little fret sprout are harder to manage.

The other problem with SS frets is that they’re less forgiving of even very minor setup imperfections than softer traditional fret wires. The Raines Tele 7s are made in a Chinese contract mill that does beautiful wood work. But their fretwork is not so good, and the guitar came to me with what was almost certainly the factory “setup” (AKA no setup).

I do think SS sounds a tiny bit plinkier than “nickel silver” (none of which contains silver, AFAIK) or nickel titanium frets (Jescar gold). But it took me 2 years to figure out what was going on. I found the slight ping annoying, but I broke my own rule and assumed I knew what was wrong without proving it. You need an accurate diagnosis before you can cure a problem effectively.

I ordered it with 11-75 strings, because it’s my all purpose gigging guitar. In the first 6 months, I tried multiple flatwound string sets. I replaced the nut with Tusq, the stock HBs with Lace Alumitones, and the cheap Chinese bridge / TP with a Hipshot. The pickups and TI JS112s with plain steel E1 and B made it better, but the attack still had a slight plink even though the jazz tone was otherwise great.

I was close to selling it, since with tone pot wide open it had an amazing Tele twang from the bridge PU that would thrill a Tele lover. But before giving up, I finally did the right thing and began a proper diagnostic effort. I’d set it up with very low action when I installed the Hipshot, and I never changed it. I decided to raise it to see if that affected tone - and the plink almost completely disappeared. I checked all the frets with a straightedge, and several were very slightly high. At this point, I decided it was potentially a good enough guitar to justify investing in a skilled luthier’s judgment and skill. So I took it to Marc Tappan at Guitars ‘n Jazz. He’s been taking care of my guitars ever since I bought my first Eastman from GnJ, and he did an amazing job on my Ibanez AF207’s frets and setup.

Marc confirmed that the frets were uneven and found 2 nut slots that were a bit too deep. The string heights didn’t follow the fingerboard radius. The frets had also never had a proper polish, which I assumed was the way SS frets looked and felt. But the factory probably just used their standard production line fretting setup and polished them with the same tools and abrasives they use on nickel silver frets.

Marc did a proper level, crown and polish after filling and recutting the errant nut slots. He set it up with very low action, and the plink is gone. If I pick very hard, there’s a slight twang - but only a metalhead rocker picks that hard. It’s a different guitar since Marc found and solved the problems with which it left the factory.

I think the moral of the story is that SS frets make very slight string contact more audible than standard frets. Because they’re so much harder, even the faintest contact will generate a slight high frequency buzz that we hear as twang or plink. And because they’re harder to work with, they need special care, tools, and attention to get a proper setup. Fret work costs more on SS for these reasons. But an expert setup is critical for best sound from SS. I’ll gladly go along with this for the stability and durability they provide. Properly installed and set up, SS frets are fantastic and I love them.

[RJVB]

Possibly the easiest way to check for sound differences not due to fretbuzz or other artefacts: get a ZeroGlide nut with the upgrade SS 0-fret set. Install the proper fret from the standard set that comes with the nut, test, record etc. Then replace that fret with its equivalent from the SS upgrade set, test, record etc. Compare.

I have been toying with the idea to do this with the ZeroGlide I installed on my Loar because I seem to be wearing my frets pretty fast and they were pretty low to begin with. And given the cost of a full refret I'd rather also pay a bit more 1x than having to cough up the money again in a few years.

[pingu]

i got a refret done on an oldhofner president
archtop

it came back with ss frets (i didn’t ask
for them)
I thought well ok let’s try them

didn’t like the feel or sound of them
at all ….

i do like a dull , not bright sound
tho ….

[RyanM]

Even on YouTube they don’t sound very good

[ruger9]

Even on YouTube they don’t sound very good

I think too many people hear with their preconceived notions or "stuff they've read on forums" than with their ears...

[Alter]

Don't like the sound or the feel, I like guitars that are not bright. If I was into metal I would consider them.

[Bobby Timmons]

There are big advantages to ss frets. They don't wear, and bends are silky and smooth. So ss frets will never need to be refretted. Refretting requires the frets being torn out of your guitar which is necessarily a potentially destructive process even if the luthier is good. I don't know why people would spring for nickel knowing that if they care about their guitar.

BUT, they do have the downside of sounding a bit plinkier. I'm finicky about tone and I found I could eq it out. But apparently as shown in this thread some people don't like the sound.

I absolutely don't understand why you wouldn't like the feel of ss tho. Bends are all silky and smooth. When I bend on nickel, it has a rough feel with more friction, and I can feel the string sawing into the fret and eroding it. Don't like that at all.

[RJVB]

I can't help but be a bit dubious about the no-wear-at-all idea under the plain wire trebles. That remains a case of steel/iron rubbing against steel/iron, with the kind of pressure (I think) where even non-metal abrasive dishwashing sponges will mark SS cookware.

I can see how regular acoustic wound strings won't wear SS nearly as much as they wear regular fret alloys, but does that mean it's the strings that incur all the wear and last a lot less long? And wtb chrome or SS wounds, since we seem to be talking about e-guitars mostly again?

[Alter]

I absolutely don't understand why you wouldn't like the feel of ss tho

It's probably simply the fact that it's different from what I'm used to. Also as mentioned the strings thing, these days you need 50$ to buy three sets of strings (jazz, classical & acoustic), plus the time you need to change them and stabilize the tuning, so string life is also a consideration.

[GuyBoden]

Acoustically, stainless steel frets sound very different, but when using a gig level loud amp, I don't hear any difference.

[Stringswinger]

I had a vintage 175 refretted with SS frets.

The plinkier tone DID bother me. I ended up selling that guitar. If SS frets don't bother your ears, you are lucky. Fret jobs here in California are expensive ($400 plus). I wish I liked SS frets, but I don't. YMMV

[Robertito]

SS frets do not cause premature string wear, in my experience - in fact, strings last much longer against the smoothness of the ss fret surfaces. I base my assertion on the 5100 gigs I've done so far on a Telecaster with SS frets; BTW, the frets don't show any wear, either.

[lammie200]

I have tried various Fender type necks with SS frets for a prolonged (years) time. I ended up going back to nickel silver. It was a subtle tone difference but it is probably similar to my dislike for SS strings. Maybe a style and place for them, but not for me. And as far as durability goes, I rotate playing between 6-7 guitars mostly and am not afraid to refret if i need to, but with what I have, and had, I have only refretted once in almost half a decade.

[ruger9]

SS frets do not cause premature string wear, in my experience - in fact, strings last much longer against the smoothness of the ss fret surfaces. I base my assertion on the 5100 gigs I've done so far on a Telecaster with SS frets; BTW, the frets don't show any wear, either.

I concur with this assessment. I don't change my strings often, and I have noticed no need to change them any more often with SS frets. And for anyone who bends, I can't imagine anyone would prefer nickel to SS (of course there are lunatics everywhere LOL)

[voyage]

Great, analytical post.

[jzucker]

I just had my Mensinger guitar re-fretted with stainless steel frets, changed a mediocre guitar to a very good one.

They never wear, no more re-fretting for a lifetime etc.

So why don't people go more for it? Are there any serious back draws?

(Apart from the costs)

i had my tele refretted with SS frets and it made the guitar unusable (bright). Also, was charged a $100 up-charge for a fret-level because of SS

[jzucker]

I had a vintage 175 refretted with SS frets.

The plinkier tone DID bother me. I ended up selling that guitar. If SS frets don't bother your ears, you are lucky. Fret jobs here in California are expensive ($400 plus). I wish I liked SS frets, but I don't. YMMV

I'm glad I found out on a $1k tele rather than a 175. Sorry you went through that. On the tele, i changed pickups and like the guitar but it's a completely different instrument now...

[Stringswinger]

I'm glad I found out on a $1k tele rather than a 175. Sorry you went through that. On the tele, i changed pickups and like the guitar but it's a completely different instrument now...

Isn't it strange that some of us can hear the difference between SS frets and NS frets and others cannot? I am not sure if our more sensitive hearing is a blessing or a curse.

If I wanted a guitar for overdriven, processed sound where I would be doing a lot of bending, SS frets would be fine and perhaps even a welcome upgrade. But on an archtop designed for super clean jazz tones? No thanks.

[GuyBoden]

Isn't it strange that some of us can hear the difference between SS frets and NS frets and others cannot? I am not sure if our more sensitive hearing is a blessing or a curse.

If I wanted a guitar for overdriven, processed sound where I would be doing a lot of bending, SS frets would be fine and perhaps even a welcome upgrade. But on an archtop designed for super clean jazz tones? No thanks.

Yes, played acoustically, stainless steel frets sound very different, but when using a gig level loud amp, I don't hear any difference.

I've had SS frets on many guitars for over 20+ years.

[ruger9]

Isn't it strange that some of us can hear the difference between SS frets and NS frets and others cannot? I am not sure if our more sensitive hearing is a blessing or a curse.

If I wanted a guitar for overdriven, processed sound where I would be doing a lot of bending, SS frets would be fine and perhaps even a welcome upgrade. But on an archtop designed for super clean jazz tones? No thanks.

I could hear it on my tele- it was just so subtle that it didn't matter. No EQ changes were required. Perhaps different guitars react differently to changed fret materials. The video I posted illustrates pretty well I think that the difference is (can be) negligible to the point of irrelevant. If you can't hear it blindfolded, then you can't hear it.

I also think there's a case to be made that "bedroom warriors" make mountains out of molehills when it comes to this stuff sometimes. I have been guilty myself- play alone, in a quiet environment, sitting right in front of the amp, you hear things you would never hear in normal jam/gig usage. In the "quiet/alone" situation, a 5% difference is made into a 20% difference ... it's a bit of an OCD thing. I just learned to ignore it because at some point you'll drive yourself crazy, and go thru many many guitars/amps/pedals, looking to alter that 5%.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Also, was charged a $100 up-charge for a fret-level because of SS

SS is harder on tools, and it takes more time & materials to both install & finish them. Standard cutters break. Cheap abrasive paper, files etc won’t get a high polish and don’t last long when used on SS. So even “just” a level / crown / polish is a bigger job on SS.

But the total cost of SS over NS is lower because you don’t need periodic L/C/P and will probably never refret. But if you prefer ultra low action and minimum relief, my experience is that your setup has to be perfect and the neck has to be kept in perfect adjustment to maintain that setup. And the harder you pick, the higher your action needs to be to avoid that faint plink (which I think comes from very light fret buzz that’s dulled by softer nickel silver).

[voyage]

SS on my carved Eastman sounds the same as the original nickel to me.