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I have the same issue with a 70s Japanese 175 copy. Having removed the tailpiece and moving it to what I thought to be the correct position and then finding it still misaligned, I drew the conclusion that either the hinge and fixing plate are not square to the rest of the tp or the butt of the guitar is not symmetrical. I've yet to get back to it for further work.
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02-10-2022 02:32 PM
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Yeah, not all guitars are made perfect - even expensive ones. This looks like an extremely easy fix to me and the fix would also be undetectable with the tailpiece in place. A good luthier could probably make the fix nearly undetectable even with the tailpiece off if you wanted to take it that far. I am not sure how fixing a defect would affect the value of the guitar. I would think in this case it would have no effect if done correctly.
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Precisely, Mark. Thank you. Luthier's latest comment is to leave it alone, as intonation and neck and tuning are all fine, have been fine since I picked it up. I do have it listed on Reverb and reference the issue. The buyer can make that choice on his own. A Super will take months to sell anyway. Still playing it side by side with the 2015 Super. One should be enough, but something about the '74...
Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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not that bad imo
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So looking at it from this picture I agree with WM it looks pretty good for sure. Originally Posted by wintermoon
not that bad imo
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Easy enough and if the guy’s any good it‘ll be invisible. Originally Posted by tomvwash
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When the neck is out of alignment or the tailpiece is off center, the bridge should actually be pulled to the right, off center, by the string tension. Unless the bridge is glued or fixed by something else.
Something doesn't seem right, but again: this could also be a misjudgment due to the photo perspective..
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Some of these bridges are pinned to the top, don't know about the Super 400? But the sideways string tension is probably not enough to overcome friction of downwards pressure. It would depend on the surfaces, string gauge, string break angle and last but not least, the degree of misalignment. Originally Posted by Arthur V.
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And even more last and not least least, the finish, protective polish and how smooth the bottom of the bridge saddle is. Bridges are, ideally, held in place just by downward pressure. If the finish lacquer is smooth and polished, and if the guitar has had protective carnuba applied (a good UV protection if nothing else), it's not going to want to fight the pull of unequal tension across the bridge. Originally Posted by JCat
Yeah alignment of the neck could be an issue; it's just hard to tell from a photo. I have two long straight edges, as may your luthier. These can extend the line set by the edge of the fingerboard down to the body and bridge. That'll settle for sure where the wonkiness is located. It may be the neck, tailpiece, or not beyond possibility, both. That's why they have Quality Control, so they can address these things in house.
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According to my eyes moving the string anchor part of the tailpiece a bit towards the bass side would be the cure. It can be displaced due to the tailpiece being deformed or due to offset mounting. what to do depends on the reason for the displacement.
Everything - including the grain pattern of the top - appears to line up nicely. Except for the tailpiece. If it doesn't have a hinge you may be able to strighten it by hand. But take care if you try that. Probably best to remove the tailpiece from the guitar first.Last edited by teeps; 02-11-2022 at 12:56 PM.
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Looks to me like you have at least 1/8" to move the whole tailpiece to the bass side before the original bottom hole on the end of the tailpiece would show on the butt of the guitar. The other two tail piece holes and the strap button hole will still be concealed by the tailpiece. If this guitar was mine I would take it to my most trusted luthier and see what they say. It may not matter as far as playability to leave it alone but it would bug me. Nice guitar. It looks off to have this misalignment IMHO.
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If you move the tailpiece over to the bass side, because of the curvature of the butt, the tailpiece will be at a different angle and may not necessarily inline up at the string slots as you would hope.
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The end block is relatively flat at that point and sides are bent to a relative flat plane for that reason. It's not a banjo, so that's not so much an issue, and if you take it to a luthier, or you're careful yourself, you can move it and you'll see the point of alignment. Measure twice, cut once. Originally Posted by garybaldy
That's how it's done. Been there. Done that.
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It doesn't look particularly flat on this guitar but what do I know? Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
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You know how to appreciate the art of guitar aesthetics. It's not supposed to look flat, so the curves are designed to sweep into a flat surface which is the end block. A flat endblock is the easiest (and best IMHO) gluing surface to match and glue with optimum gluing surface. The illusion of a continuous curve is the illusion of a side that sweeps from sharp waist lines to reverse curves and flats without appearing unnatural. Originally Posted by garybaldy
Of course every builder builds their own way, but the end block join of the sides is enormously important for the alignment of the guitar and the integrity of the body, so the nexus of all the forces needs to be solid. That's why a flat is so desirable.
You can kinda see from the profile shots how it tends towards a flat at the endblock. So down there, there's some wiggle room and for the 1/8" move, the effect of the side curve is close to negligible. That's the thought anyway.
Let's hope-
I've done tailpiece relocations. It works with the minimum of complicated calculation.
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If it is new return it.
If it is used fix it.
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70's vintage. Finish is cured. Wear seems minimal. Construction was questionable but ostensibly fixable. Wood is a good quality. If it's in good shape otherwise and you play it and it brings out some magic in you you never knew was there, repair it and play it til it looks like an old battle axe. Originally Posted by BBGuitar
Otherwise, it'd better have been a good deal if it's a vanity acquisition.
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Perspective & photography is pretty tricky. Not sure the camera is perfectly level and aligned vertically to the guitar, so this may or may not be true: looks to me like it could be that the tailpiece is not so much in the wrong place, but maybe more like bent. Like it's leaning to the right in the photo. The luthier will know.
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I highly doubt it's bent, I tried to bend one once, not happening.
more likely not mounted parallel to the top, dipping to one side.
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I'm no luthier.
But, the more I look at it, the more I think the tailpiece is skewed a bit towards the treble side, either because it's bent somewhere, or because it's not mounted flush with the guitar butt end. It would be easy to determine which it is in person. It looks to me like the tailpiece itself is mounted in the right location - it's just skewed.
Whether it's worth fiddling with or not is up to you of course. I'm not suggesting this, but I can imagine a skilled luthier with some "touch" might remove the tailpiece, tightly secure the bottom of the tailpiece (the part that's mounted to the guitar butt) in a vise with hard wood/plastic blocks, and do what is sometimes called a "gentle cold set". Guessing it would just need about 1/8" of deflection to the left. Of course, it might crack the plating, or the metal itself, but maybe not.
Good luck!
PS: is that small treble-side Phillips head tailpiece screw tight? Pics make it look like a gap between the screw head and the tailpiece plate.Last edited by northernbreed; 02-12-2022 at 03:18 PM.
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I was thinking more like twisted: the fold at the bottom not being perfectly 90° to the centreline of the tailpiece. Like it wasn't in the press, or brake, or whatever, exactly square to the world when it was bent. Could cause that dipping as well. Originally Posted by wintermoon
I'd be very happy to own a super 4 with that little 'defect' :-)
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you could shim the tailpiece
left hand side up a bit ....
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Just my 2 cents worth, and I can't really help with what the issue is, it could be an off centre tailpiece, but they are usually lined up with the join in the rims, but then the joint may not be perfectly central, or it could be that the neck angle is slightly off and so are the pickups to compensate and then the tailpiece is bang on centre, I have seen that on a 175. You could see if the guitar is symmetrical around the centre seam and if the distance from pickups to f holes and edges of the guitar are symmetrical with the centre or the rims. It might help solve where the issue is. However one thing I am sure of is I wouldn't be drilling any holes in a super 400. How about putting a very small shim under the left hand tailpiece screw to move the top of the tailpiece over to the left a bit, or even less drastic would be slackening off the left hand screw and tightening the right hand one a little, the tailpiece looks like it is a flat section resting on a curve so I thinkk there would be a little room for adjustment. It might be a little wonky but it would be evening the wonkiness out which is all part of the fun of a hand made instrument! Whatever I think this calls for the least drastic solution possible!!!
Last edited by plasticpigeon; 02-28-2022 at 06:48 AM.
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If the tailpiece isn’t centered, it can be shimmed to correct the angle. I’ve done it when I had to had to replace a tailpiece and the replacement wasn’t quite lined up. Since there are three screws you might need two shims of different thicknesses to get it dead-on. It’s a trial and error process, but no redrilling is required.
Once the shim(s) have been finalized, it’s a good idea to double-back tape them to the tailpiece mount so they don’t fall out if the tailpiece must be removed later.
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