fingers too short for a lot of chords... so, what do you do

[RonDen]

I have short fingers, and , old fingers.
Most of the chords that require a spread of four, five frets forget it.
Example Mickey Baker book one number 6 D13b5b9 and number 7 Gma7 amongst many others from other sites and books.
do I just go with three voices and forget the semi barres etc...
And, if you are following a book and cannot do some chords, what then?
I am not new to guitar, but new past the first position.
Thanks,
Ronald

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

1. Try repositioning the guitar into a more classical guitar position: if you are sitting (and right handed!) put it on your (raised?) left leg with the neck at an upward angle. Your thumb should be in the middle of the back of the neck if it is not fretting itself.

[EDIT:]
1.5 I find it also helps, a wee bit, to plant the bass note fingering *then* stretch for the higher notes, rather than trying to *blam* make the shape appear all at once.

2. If you still can't pull off a grip, either drop out notes (the bass note, especially if you are playing with a bass player) or use easier grips. Joe Pass stuck to easy grips!

[Longways to Go]

My favorite guitar instructor has much shorter fingers than I do, but boy can he make them move in ways that I can't!

My ability to stretch between 1st & 4th fingers is just not that amazing, but I continue to work on it. Stretching exercises help a little, and trying for the tough reaches helps some too. I accidentally chopped the tip off my pinky some years ago, so rehabbing that finger has been a big issue for me. It's still my weakest link (as far as fingers go) but much more functional that it used to be. But I'll never be a big reach chord guy -- just ain't gonna happen.

[Generalmojo]

I struggle with this as well. Tiny tiny fingers. Which can be helpful when a student says "my hands are too small!" A quick comparison shuts that down pretty quick.

One of my solutions, lose and note and simplify things. I consider it part of my style.


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[Jabberwocky]

Get a 23.5" scale length Byrdland...

Classical positioning helps. A short 24.75" to 25" scale length guitar helps. Proper positioning of the thunb behind the neck helps. Keep the thumb fluid behind the neck and the touch light. If you gotta plant your thumb at the treble edge of the fretboard-neck, do it.

That said, some chords are impossible for those of us with small hands. Forget it and sound the notes that you can. It is about tonal colour. Break up the chord and roll the notes in succession. I think it really helps to hear the tonal colours of the chord and know what you can throw out. Most of these big stretch chords are muddy-sounding anyway. It is not so much what the name of the chord is; it is its tonal colours.

Don't injure your hands though. Thank goodness much jazz can be played without such chords. The cognates of that D13b5b9 isn't so bad in the higher reaches. It is just that one that causes a lot of pain.

Another plan, tune a semitone down to Eb-eb or even lower. This moves that damn chord higher up the neck. Tune to a lower A432 because Michael Chapdelaine does and I like Michael Chapdelaine. Softer strings, less tension. Closer string spacing at the nut. You'd be surprised at how much 1mm to 1.5mm closer string spacing helps.

Don't fret it. Jazz is about making smart choices, not rules.

[RonDen]

Thanks for the help and encouragement.
Mel Bay has a book called Joe Pass chords.
There are examples and it does not seem that it has these hard stretched chords.
Have some of you used it or, are aware of it.
What do you think... could be good for someone like me.
Ronald

[P4guitar]

Learn how chords are composed: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, etc.

Reduce the notes to the essential tones of the chord - keep "chords" between 2 and 4 notes.

A good rule of thumb is the 1, 3, 7 or the 3, 7 plus some extensions.

In the long run, this is what the advanced players do anyway, and IMO, it's best way to play chords.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Are you familiar with drop voicings? Drop-2, Drop-3, etc?

[RonDen]

Does the root note need always be played?
That is quite often the one that makes a long stretch.
Unless it is not played on the low E string
Ronald

[RonDen]

The Joe Pass guitar chord book does not name the individual chords
Ron

[wolflen]

the baker chords can be a deal breaker for those new to jazz chords..or small hands..

for the GMA7 try
string
D 5th fret-G note
G 4th fret-B
B 7th fret-F#
E 7th fret-B

then
E 3rd fret (low E)-G
A 5th fret-D..play notes separate..then..together

repeat until it flows .. go slow...it will sound musical at some point..strum slowly-play each note separate..play together..vary..experiment with D7 going to this chord or Ab going to it .. (1-5-3)

[mwcarr]

Are you playing just instrumentally or are you accompanying yourself and singing? I do a lot of singing and guitar playing and find that the Freddie Greene type stripped down chord voicings are pretty effective and most of them are not more than three fret stretches. Just a thought.

[Shadow of the Sun]

At this point, I'd say find chord grips you can use and make it part of your style.

One thing I've noticed is that a lot of the people we admire as brilliant artists and musicians aren't people that could do everything as much as people who took what they could do and worked with it into something genius. The go-to example, possibly even to the point of cliche, would be Django. He used a lot of unusual voicings (at the time) because it was all that his burned fingers could do, and I don't think anyone here would criticize him because he couldn't pull off the chords that someone like Tal Farlow could.

[emanresu]

Higher positions should be easier for smaller hands - for jazz chords at least. There are finger twisters(for any hand sizes) but usually those have comfy alternatives. I mean, there are so many comfortable voicings that you'll have not enough time to get them all anyway. Depends what are you after of course.. and if Michel Petrucciani can rock with full size piano then heck, guitar can't be that difficult Btw, I have large hands but they are clumsy and slow. I've envied players with small&fast&accurate fingers. Well, do what you can and don't what you can't philosophy always works.

Maybe check out what kinds of neck types are out there. Some guitar players with small hands have their guitar made with custom measures too. Might be darn expensive though.

[matt.guitarteacher]

Example Mickey Baker book one number 6 D13b5b9 and number 7 Gma7 amongst many others from other sites and books.

I wouldn't worry about those two chords so much. They are'nt essential, even in that book. If I recall correctly, he mostly uses them at the end of progressions. Use different D7 and Gmaj7 forms.

[Generalmojo]

I think of it this way. If I had super long fingers, would I take advantage of them? Yes. Would o be able to jam them all together for tight shapes? Maybe not. So instead of looking at my small fingers as a disadvantage, I think, let's take advantage of having short fingers. If long fingers can define your sound, so can small fingers.


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[liehax]

IMO (my ear's opinion ), 2 to 4 note chords work great for comping, you don't have to play full chords, drop the 1 or the 5, or these two altogether. There are even situations you can drop the third instead.Just let you ear guide you. It's when playing a solo guitar that you must pay full attention to your bass lines, but even in those cases, you don't need to play full chords all the time. Study a little bit of voicing theory and you will see your progress. Sorry fo my bad english

[T1mothy]

I pursue those chords anyway trying to make my fingers get used to it.

[RonDen]

Thanks to all of the replies,
It is very encouraging to hear this.
One can certainly play around arrangements.
Unlike classical guitar, jazz is not set to playing a given score.
In fact, I find that which version do I learn......
There is so much ways that I can hear a song in my head, guitar only that
I don't know where to go.
And since I am just learning Jazz theory I am already stuck.
For instance, I really would like to learn some version of Over the rainbow.
Harold Arlen originally wrote in G major.
Judy Garland in the movie sang it in G#major
Some people play it in A major...
What is it usually played in ??
I really would like to learn it as in the movie Key.
Plus, I want to learn it with plectrum .
Ronald

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I think Over the Rainbow gets played in a number of different keys -- choose yer favourite!

As for finger-style, hybrid or with a pick, it's all good.

[MaxTwang]

In this video the physical stretches are minimal, the mental stretches are what's important. It only takes a couple notes to convey tonality and where the melody strongly implies the chords Joe just accompanies with a bass line.

[whiskey02]

You don't need basketball hands to play guitar well. Large hands, while making stretches easier, can present difficulties in fretting notes that are close together. Any chord you come across can be represented with 2 notes. Cultivate what you can do and do not waste time focusing on what is out of your reach, because it just doesn't matter. Play whatever you can play well, and no one will notice or care what you're not doing.

[mr. beaumont]

Learn how chords are composed: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, etc.

Reduce the notes to the essential tones of the chord - keep "chords" between 2 and 4 notes.

A good rule of thumb is the 1, 3, 7 or the 3, 7 plus some extensions.

In the long run, this is what the advanced players do anyway, and IMO, it's best way to play chords.

This.

[bako]

Regardless of hand/finger size, it is worthwhile to explore all the angles and positioning to maximize
whatever level of reach we may possess.

[RonDen]

Yes Mr Beaumont,
What 4thstuning said.
Ron