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Minor Jazz Blues, as I have found out, speaks to my soul. Could you please list a typical Jazz Blues progression? I just remembered that I can go to one of Matt and Dirk's Jazz Blues courses, but could you give me what you consider to be a nice minor jazz blues progression that does not have too many or too few chord changes? And please make it one that mirrors what they guys used to play back in the day.
Meanwhile, I will scour my books and other material.
Thanks.Last edited by AlsoRan; 02-02-2018 at 10:11 PM.
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01-28-2018 12:49 PM
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Or a bit more complicated:
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I would use a plain minor chord, m6 as the Cm and Fm chords unless I was going for a little more of a 'cool modal' sound...
The m7 has that 'soul jazz' feeling for me...
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My fav Fm6 chords - not that anyone asked
X8678x
X5658x
1x2113
Cool descending scale: f e d db c bb ab g f - which I suppose is a bebop minor of sorts.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
Or a bit more complicated:
Thanks so much!
I am going to follow Zellon's common sense approach and start with the simple one and add the extra chords just one measure at a time.
I was doing that with the Dom 7 Blues, but I could not maintain my interest in the Mixolydian over Dom7 sound combination. It felt like I was playing "someone else's" music. I understand it is necessary but still...
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Originally Posted by christianm77
I know you are a proponent of the minor 6th chords from my past readings of your threads. I will experiment with the minor 6th sounds at a later date, once I can take the training wheels off, again.
And I see Rob Mac shares your interest in 6th chords. Thanks, Rob.Last edited by AlsoRan; 01-29-2018 at 10:51 PM. Reason: spelling
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m7's always have that 'chilled out, Wes modal vamp vibe' going on. It feels very far removed from a basic minor quality... It amused me that Mike Moreno says in his video - 'this isn't a jazz chord to me... It's an R&B chord'...
m9 dials that back a little... sounds a little more obviously minor, more sad... but still a little 'cool'
m6's have a bit more of that - 'slightly gritty' minor quality and sadder than m7 - sound a bit more 'serious' and intense. m6/9 intensifies that effect - almost turns it into a dominant chord....
m(ma7) is for when you want to something a little more 'exotic' - of course, it's the Bond chord now... (Sonny Clarke liked it.) More complex than sad.
m(add9) is a cool choice often... I really like it for when I want something minor but a bit more colourful without losing that basic sad minor feeling.
But, very often the best thing to play is a straight minor, with no sevenths or sixths. It's amazing how often this is the right choice... Nothing sounds like a minor chord, and you aren't laying down the law as to what kind of minor scales the soloist should use...
Often the m6 really isn't the right choice... I've heard a lot of people complain about the m6 being used indiscriminately by Gypsy Jazz players - the voicing x2323x for Dm is problematic for the bass player, for instance.
In fact, if we listen to the original Hot Club, it was more often straight majors and minors... m6's (xx4555) and so on, were played more often by Django ... a lead embellishment, probably influenced by his physical limitations.
The credit for the m6 and 6 voicing in American jazz I have heard attributed to Eddie Durham's arrangements for Basie (c late 30s)... Who also mentored Charlie Christian.... Dunno how true that is, but I can buy it.
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I disagree... Triads and basic chords are for pop and more from the written tradition.
The big problem with 7th and extensions comes from not understanding the harmony and context, more of a performance thing.
That doesn't mean everything needs to be played all the time.... Don't get me wrong... triad applications are different. Playing root implied triads...
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Footprints
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I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I base my judgement on what I hear in the music I like to listen to. Originally Posted by Reg
There are many 'basic chords' in accompaniment right up to the modal era. Listen to Wynton Kelly for instance.
Perhaps jazz only properly started in 1959.
I do not understand what this means. If you mean - you have to listen out for what's going on, I agree.The big problem with 7th and extensions comes from not understanding the harmony and context, more of a performance thing.
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Outside of modal stuff, my ear has a hard time accepting a m7th chord as a true tonic minor. Like, the I chord of "yesterdays" or "how deep is the ocean", I def hear that as m6 or min/maj7. Originally Posted by christianm77
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There’s a load of examples here:
Minor Blues | Jazz Guitar Chord Progressions
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Equinox by John Coltrane is a good example of a basic minor blues
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Why? Because it's easy? You know, that plaintive bluesy pentatonic over a minor progression? Originally Posted by AlsoRan
It's not easy. It's often played fast (even when it's slow) and, boy, does that harmonic minor sound pale after a (short) while... if it's ever used at all.
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Did the OP say because it was easy? Don't think so. Originally Posted by ragman1
I like minor blues too, for the same reason (they speak to my soul too).
But I actually find them harder to play convincingly than the 'normal' (major) blues.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Funny you should mention it, because for my ears, it is a little easier to navigate the changes. But, for a long time, I struggled with resisting the urge to just use Blues Scales. Thanks to a couple of courses I took, I now have a couple of other soloing approaches, but to my ears, that plaintive pentatonic captures what I am after.
Its like a part of me has not gotten away from the Blues enough to be able to hear it in a more Jazzy way.
Lately, I have quit fighting it. I just play what I am hearing, rudimentary that it may be, and hope maybe one day, boredom will set it and propel me to using more more Jazzy alternatives.
By the way Raggy, you have been finding some great Youtube videos lately. I have to compliment you on some of your latest posts.
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The bit I find hard to play well on a minor blues, say in Cm, is where you get the Ab7 and then maybe Dm7b5 to G7 in bars 9 and 10. Something about those changes kind of trips me up a bit for some reason, I mean to play a line that works convincingly on them.
I don't like just playing pentatonic blues stuff, I want to nail those changes like Dexter Gordon or Wes!
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AlsoRan -
Here's the sheet for Footprints:
You can see what the chords are. Pretty simple. You don't need to play as fast as that (or even the same rhythm) but see if you work out what he's playing over them in the recording. He starts with C Dorian (Bb major) over the Cm.
What I'm saying is that it's still very possible to play simple things over changes like these, just as easy as Cm blues, and make them plaintive too, although it's got quite a different feel.
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Quite so. Originally Posted by grahambop
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When I am in the right mood, I too like to nail the changes, but it just does not flow out of me as well yet. I am working on it, that's for sure. Originally Posted by grahambop
One thing that has helped has been listening to those book/CDs instructional material where they play a bunch of lines over a set of changes. I play it in the car and some of it sinks in. I just can't get it out in my fingers yet, and due to time constraints these days, I have had to set it aside for awhile again and just enjoy playing my little toys of wood, metal twine, and switches.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
AlsoRan -
Here's the sheet for Footprints:
You can see what the chords are. Pretty simple. You don't need to play as fast as that (or even the same rhythm) but see if you work out what he's playing over them in the recording. He starts with C Dorian (Bb major) over the Cm.
What I'm saying is that it's still very possible to play simple things over changes like these, just as easy as Cm blues, and make them plaintive too, although it's got quite a different feel.
Kris mentioned this song and because in my memory, I did not remember hearing whether or not it swings, I kind of looked over it. But, I will go ahead and revisit it. I have a nice version of it and I would bet anything the soloist was not playing Blues Scales! It sounded more like a Modal type of tune.
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D7 and Db7...ha ha... Originally Posted by ragman1
AlsoRan -
Here's the sheet for Footprints:
You can see what the chords are. Pretty simple. You don't need to play as fast as that (or even the same rhythm) but see if you work out what he's playing over them in the recording. He starts with C Dorian (Bb major) over the Cm.
What I'm saying is that it's still very possible to play simple things over changes like these, just as easy as Cm blues, and make them plaintive too, although it's got quite a different feel.
I do not know any versions with these chord...
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AlsoRan -
If I were you I'd forget Footprints. It's not even in 4/4 and those changes aren't standard for learning over. My mistake for going with that idea. It'll only do your head in.
A7 to Cm? Who writes stuff like that? Don't go there!
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Pat Metheny's wonderful tune "Have You Heard" uses a minor blues with a bridge in the solo section and he plays some absolutely insane stuff in those choruses.
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