Block Chords

[AllanAllen]

So, forum member asafasadi posted that cool organ trio video and mentioned block chords and I went to youtube and watched the video below. From it, I think I have an outline on block chord soloing. I will write everything out in C.

Over a G7 he recommends a diminished on the b9, 3rd, 5th and b7: Ab° B° D° F°
Over a Dm7 he recommends: Dm7, Fmaj7, Am7, Cmaj7. Which are symmetrical/inversions for: Dm7, Dm9, Dm7(add 11), Dm7(add 13)
Over a Cmaj7 he recommends: Cmaj7, Em7, Gmaj7, Bm7. Which are symmetrical/inversions for: Cmaj7, Cmaj9, Cmaj7(add #11), Cmaj7(add 13)

Neat little trick. When I play it, I can't help but want to put diminished between the chord tones and hear an almost Barry Harris approach.

[JazzPadd]

Thank you. It's one of those simple ideas from which one can get a lot of mileage in practice.

[AllanAllen]

I played around with it a little tonight. Sounds kind of like the Barry Harris 6th/diminished chord scales. But easier to pull off since it’s standard shapes.

[Bobby Timmons]

Step 1 for playing chordally is just the inversions to the basic chord progression to the tune with the melody note on top. You don't have to do any high tech stuff with different chords per top note. As you get more advanced, you can work toward that, but I recommend you understand the basic approach.

[Christian Miller]

There’s a few ways of doing it. The more ways you have of harmonising diatonic scales the better

Despite everyone on the internet thinking Barry Harris came up with the alternating 6th chords with dim7 thing, in fact this predates him, and can be heard in big band arrangements and piano playing from the 40s and 50s. Mechanical voicings as Berklee calls them.

(Barry Harris’s innovation was to show how the scale can be used for non parallel movements.)

Think about the intervals of the outer voices. Parallel 10ths are characteristic of most drop 2 voicings.


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[AllanAllen]

Step 1 for playing chordally is just the inversions to the basic chord progression to the tune with the melody note on top. You don't have to do any high tech stuff with different chords per top note. As you get more advanced, you can work toward that, but I recommend you understand the basic approach.

Yeah, I did all those inversions and couldn't figure out how to move them around. Some are difficult to grab and if I can replace it with a first year grip and get a little color, what's the harm? It's just music.

This isn't chords per top note, it's replacing the inversions with standard grips. So the arpeggio for C goes from C E G B to the chords Cmaj7 Em7 Gmaj7 Bm7. Those chords are also inversion/shell's of various Cmaj7 colors.

Playing chord tone arpeggios over the root chord (ex. Em7 over the Cmaj7) is something covered in the Mickey Baker book, so this isn't a new system to me. More like, a new way to use something I already know.

I'm very free with chords on minor tunes(Song For my Father) or dominant tunes (Doxy), but I'm still looking for a way to make those tricks work with major tunes. Jack Zucker's dodecaphonic stuff had me thinking, then I saw the chord soloing and maybe some pieces fell together.... I dunno. Next gig is in 8 days. I still have time to check out this rabbit hole.

[AllanAllen]

There’s a few ways of doing it. The more ways you have of harmonising diatonic scales the better

Despite everyone on the internet thinking Barry Harris came up with the alternating 6th chords with dim7 thing, in fact this predates him, and can be heard in big band arrangements and piano playing from the 40s and 50s. Mechanical voicings as Berklee calls them.

(Barry Harris’s innovation was to show how the scale can be used for non parallel movements.)

Think about the intervals of the outer voices. Parallel 10ths are characteristic of most drop 2 voicings.


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I'm really not familiar with BH, it was just kind of close to the chord scales in the Kingstone book. But easier for me to play, since none of the shapes are new.

I heard Johnathan Stout say mechanical voicings when he was a guest on the Hot Jazz Network Podcast. Thanks for reminding me to look into those too.

[pamosmusic]

Yeah, I did all those inversions and couldn't figure out how to move them around. Some are difficult to grab and if I can replace it with a first year grip and get a little color, what's the harm? It's just music.

This is the galaxy brain version of drop two inversions.

You think you’re really smart and practice them for years, then you go …….. wait …… two thirds of these are impossible to play. And then you start subbing easy chords for all the hard inversions and realize you’re just playing like… the first eight voicings you learned when you started playing jazz.

[AllanAllen]

This is the galaxy brain version of drop two inversions.

You think you’re really smart and practice them for years, then you go …….. wait …… two thirds of these are impossible to play. And then you start subbing easy chords for all the hard inversions and realize you’re just playing like… the first eight voicings you learned when you started playing jazz.

I makes sense, we have videos of Barney Kessell, Jim Hall, Kenny Burrell and Peter Bernstein NOT playing those hard grips. That's always bothered me, why do I have to play these hard stretchy voicings when I can see the people I want to sound like don't do it.

Not to mention Joe Pass and his cowboy grips, I swear it looks like Joe learned an E and A bar chord and he was like "that'll do just fine."

[pamosmusic]

I makes sense, we have videos of Barney Kessell, Jim Hall, Kenny Burrell and Peter Bernstein NOT playing those hard grips. That's always bothered me, why do I have to play these hard stretchy voicings when I can see the people I want to sound like don't do it.

Not to mention Joe Pass and his cowboy grips, I swear it looks like Joe learned an E and A bar chord and he was like "that'll do just fine."

You are not wrong.

Also just saw the “dodecaphonics” reference … I really like that stuff because I’m definitely more of a grips player and that really gets a lot more motion and flavor in with straightforward substituting. Not that it precludes motion. It’s just got some ways of getting into that work well for me.

[mr. beaumont]

I've messed with this a lot...just like rhythm guitar, you can get a ton of mileage out of a few chord shapes...the note on top is most important.

I'll try to put some stuff together, we can all compare notes.

And yes, the diminished shape is a godsend.

[grahambop]

I use the BH stuff a lot for chord solos, but with a few tweaks to the 6th chord inversions to make it easier. (The dim chords are easy of course).

I like the fact this guy has a system for it, i.e. for major, play major-minor alternating up the chord tones, for minor do the opposite, I’ll definitely play around with this idea.

[Christian Miller]

I'm really not familiar with BH, it was just kind of close to the chord scales in the Kingstone book. But easier for me to play, since none of the shapes are new.

I heard Johnathan Stout say mechanical voicings when he was a guest on the Hot Jazz Network Podcast. Thanks for reminding me to look into those too.

Basic mechanical voicings are the same thing basically


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[Reg]

Allan... there are just too many clams using that approach. You need to be aware of the context.... the tune and an analysis that implies how you going to play the tune.

Which even more importantly implies how your playing the tune Functionally... which sets up the Harmonic Rhythm. You can do this by ear ... kind of... But being aware of the harmonic rhythmic pattern or where different types of chords want to go... especially the Tonal Targets, just doesn't work mechanically until you have a Functional pattern for them to work within.

Personally it's more of a tool or effect.... vanilla filler. Great way to help map and learn the fretboard.

[AllanAllen]

Reg,

I really like that term vanilla filler.... at this point I'm just looking for more tool and effects. The more of these I have the less time I need to fill with noodling. Effects and tricks seem to get more approving head nods than noodling. So in that way, if it gets me nothing more than a few new arpeggios I can swap out over a chord, this will be a win.

[wolflen]

basic inversion movement..triads and 4 notes..close and open voicings..and a few quartal patterns

do some real "easy" tunes..that is..tunes that are easy for you!

Blue in Greene is a good one

[Reg]

hey Allan... nothing wrong with learning a different way to play a somewhat "A" section of Satin Doll with Vanilla Filler

But learning actual standard chord patterns that don't muddy up the harmony with diminished or symmetrical chords .... would be better approach to start with ... then learn different Functional harmonic approach(s) using symmetrical Chords for Dom. Function chords... as a expanded version of the standard functional chords. Then learn how to expand Harmony using Diminished references... or other effect type of Functional Harmonic Movement. Vanilla filler doesn't really create very blusy or jazz feels
So what do you hear...

D-7 Fma7 A-7 Cma7 is what ... II-7 IVma7 VI-7 Ima7... Not really .....what he's trying to imply at least to my ears is just...

Dmin7 to G7.....
Emin7 to A7

D-7 G7.... Cmaj7

What happens when you mix up standard Functional chords....your camouflaging the implied Chord pattern. The lead line says one thing and the chord labels say another...

And the problems with Vanilla filler is.... any jazz Blues feel is just gone. 1/2step movement implies jazz blues feel in a few ways...

The Vid is cool and the player has great skills and I like his feel etc... but one needs to get the easy standard material down 1st.... then you'll have a reference for expanding from.


Yea I get what your saying... vanilla fill is better than No Fill LOL.

So how long do you think it will take you to get a handle on his 3 chord 12 step approach ... of which Do you even get his organization .... beyond just memorizing example.

Do you know basic Diatonic functional subs... and how to expand them with standard jazz Functional chords and chord patterns.

[AllanAllen]

Do you know basic Diatonic functional subs... and how to expand them with standard jazz Functional chords and chord patterns.

I don’t know what you mean by this. I know a handful of subs.

m3rd dominant on a blues (Eb7 over a C-7)
I’m aware of Tritone subs
I know the vi7 is most of the same notes as a I6. Same for a Imaj7 and iii7.

But there’s no organization. Just stuff I picked up from lead sheets and charts. Puzzle pieces really.

[Christian Miller]

But can you have killer vanilla filler? And can Christian Miller use the killer vanilla filler?


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[djg]

But can you have killer vanilla filler? And can Christian Miller use the killer vanilla filler?

when kitchens are renovated, there is often the need to fill gaps between cabinets and gaps between cabinets and appliances. pros use fillers for that.

Signature Vanilla Glaze 3x36 Wall Filler

[mr. beaumont]

But can you have killer vanilla filler? And can Christian Miller use the killer vanilla filler?


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It's a thrilla!

Allan...one of the easiest ways to break a tune down for the sake of organizing is to see how much you can pare everything down to I and V.

[pamosmusic]

It's a thrilla!

Allan...one of the easiest ways to break a tune down for the sake of organizing is to see how much you can pare everything down to I and V.

Oh yeah …. We should try to catalog

ii-V …. Just V

iii usually equals I

vi often equals I

turnarounds can just be I V

diminished 7 chords are usually just V of something but maybe a iv or something depending on context.

[Reg]

So Allan... sounds like a "no"

So Diatonic subs are derived from basic Functional Harmony.... The Tonic, subdominant and Dominant organization.

In a basic Blues.... the I7 chord is the Tonic function, the chord that is at rest in the Harmonic context of a Blues
The IV7 chord is the Subdominant chord... and the Function the chord can go to either the Tonic or the Dominant.
The V7 chord is the Dominant... it wants to move back to the Tonic or the I7 chord

Tonic is stable or at rest
Subdominant is in the middle can resolve to either.
Dominate is the least stable, wants to move back to the tonic.

This is the simple version of Harmonic function.... it's not just about the tritone and with Ionian guidelines. Vanilla.

Diatonic functional subs are.... chords a diatonic 3rd above and below the target chord.

Ex. Cmaj7 is target and the Tonic.... the Diatonic subs are,
1) up a diatonic 3rd.... E-7
2) down a diatonic 3rd.... A-7

And... in the Vid Ex.. with Target of D-7.... yes the B-7b5 is also a diatonic sub of G7... which is why the II-7 V7 is one of the most common Chord patterns in jazz.

This simple concept can and is expanded with Modal usage, but you need to have a reference to expand and create relationships with.... get Diatonic Functional Subs Down 1st

Inversions are not subs.... they are just rearrangement of the chord notes. You can have and use new harmonic relationships with Inversions.... like using the G7b9 chord with Diminished 7th chords. But, and this is personal, it get muddy.... and somewhat doesn't imply a huge part of Jazz harmony.... Blues

And the real problems is when you take the next step and expand the relationship.

Again this is personal... Taking the next steps is what Jazz players do.

So example of using Diatonic Functional subs

D-7 with a lead line of D F A C E G
x 2 3 2 3 X ......B-7b5
X 5 3 5 6 X .......D-7
x x 3 5 5 5 .......Fma7
x 5 7 5 6 8 ...... D-7
x x 9 10 10 12 ..B-7b5
x x 15 14 13 15 . D-7 ( x x 12 14 13 13 or x x 15 14 12 15 if you want G7 the related V7 of D-7)

And again personally I would use a G7 and extension from using MM altered instead of Ddim7 and it's inversions.


So you need to go through this vanilla process with all chords and you'll find contexts where it doesn't work
as with any approach.... But the concepts expand with more of a simple tonal sound. Especially when you start using Chord patterns rather than inversions.

There are more doors that open to develop Blue Notes with Chord Patterns.

And yes it is easy to just use Tonic and Dominant.... but your missing 50% or more of what playing in a jazz style is... subdominant.

[pamosmusic]

Ex Cmaj7 is target and the Tonic.... the Diatonic subs are,
1) up a diatonic 3rd.... E-7
2) down a diatonic 3rd.... B-7b5

Down a diatonic third would be Am7, no?

[Christian Miller]

when kitchens are renovated, there is often the need to fill gaps between cabinets and gaps between cabinets and appliances. pros use fillers for that.

Signature Vanilla Glaze 3x36 Wall Filler

And they said there wasn’t any useful advice on JGO!


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