What do you call power chords with chord symbols?

[Mick-7]

So then, if I double the tonic note (or 5th), you folks will consider these harmonic delinquents to be legal and allow them into the chord club?

As in: C-G-C or C-G-G (or inversion: G-C-G)

[henryrobinett]

So then, if I double the tonic note (or 5th), you folks will consider these harmonic delinquents to be legal and allow them into the chord club?

As in: C-G-C or C-G-G (or inversion: G-C-G)

Huh? Those are still only two notes. Not different octaves of the same notes. It doesn’t matter which octaves they’re still only two different pitches.


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[RJVB]

It doesn’t matter which octaves they’re still only two different pitches.

Did you skip other 1st year classes? Pitch = frequency ...

The full version of the cited definition in the Oxford Dictionary reads
3.a. A combination, concordant or discordant, of three or more simultaneous notes according to the rules of harmony; rarely of two notes only. (1737-)

(I'll admit that 1737 is already a tad late for me, and I do usually add at least 1 letters to the damn things - accord )

[Mick-7]

Huh? Those are still only two notes. Not different octaves of the same notes. It doesn’t matter which octaves they’re still only two different pitches.

You have changed your definition of "chord." In a previous post you quoted the Oxford Dictionary: "Chord: a group of (typically three or more) notes sounded together, as a basis of harmony."

It says "3 notes" not "3 notes of different pitches." A double octave would of course be the exception. { C-C(8va)-C(2x8va) }

My previous examples should have been written: C-G-C(8va) or C-G-G(8va)

[Christian Miller]

So then, if I double the tonic note (or 5th), you folks will consider these harmonic delinquents to be legal and allow them into the chord club?

As in: C-G-C or C-G-G (or inversion: G-C-G)

Fancy word i got from medieval music theory for an octave and a fifth ‘together ‘trine’

When I say medieval music theory I mean theory people made up about medieval music. Apparently
no one wrote much about harmony in the Middle Ages.

Ooooh what they were missing out on! The fun we have!


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[Christian Miller]

Alternatively, it’s a power chord m8.


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[pamosmusic]

This is amusing

[henryrobinett]

Did you skip other 1st year classes? Pitch = frequency ...

The full version of the cited definition in the Oxford Dictionary reads
3.a. A combination, concordant or discordant, of three or more simultaneous notes according to the rules of harmony; rarely of two notes only. (1737-)

(I'll admit that 1737 is already a tad late for me, and I do usually add at least 1 letters to the damn things - accord )

Huh? Skip? I was a music professor. No need to be condescending.


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[henryrobinett]

You have changed your definition of "chord." In a previous post you quoted the Oxford Dictionary: "Chord: a group of (typically three or more) notes sounded together, as a basis of harmony."

It says "3 notes" not "3 notes of different pitches." A double octave would of course be the exception. { C-C(8va)-C(2x8va) }

My previous examples should have been written: C-G-C(8va) or C-G-G(8va)

Well I’m sorry if that wasn’t clear. To me three notes means three pitches. When I write or play music and am thinking harmonically it never matters what octave the notes or pitches are, except for orchestration/arranging. A pitch of C will always be the minor 3rd of A regardless of its octave. F will always be the perfect 4th of C, or you can think of it as the 11th, depending on what else is happening in the structure.

I’m really surprised this is so controversial here. I haven’t been around for a long time and I’m starting remember.


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[Christian Miller]

OK, so to be super specific.

• a pitch class is defined as the set of all pitches a whole number of octaves apart. Alternatively put, it is an octave invariant definition of a given pitch (C, E, Db etc)
• so a "power chord" can by definition only contain two distinct pitch classes.
• It is axiomatic that a chord be defined as a simultaneously expressed sonority of more than three distinct pitch classes.
• Therefore a "powerchord" is not a chord

One can quibble with the definition, but it follows.

Now first principles have been established, we may now proceed to 'Back in Black'

[Mick-7]

OK, so to be super specific.

• a pitch class is defined as the set of all pitches a whole number of octaves apart. Alternatively put, it is an octave invariant definition of a given pitch (C, E, Db etc)
• so a "power chord" can by definition only contain two distinct pitch classes.
• It is axiomatic that a chord be defined as a simultaneously expressed sonority of more than three distinct pitch classes.
• Therefore a "powerchord" is not a chord

One can quibble with the definition, but it follows.

Now first principles have been established, we may now proceed to 'Back in Black'

Very nice summation, Christian, you really are good at that sort of thing.

[Christian Miller]

Very nice summation, Christian, you really are good at that sort of thing.

Thank you.

I wish I had an actually useful skill.

[Mick-7]

I wish I had an actually useful skill.

LOL, there's probably a Mark Twain quote for that, something like, "He's an extremely talented man, unfortunately no one has been able to find a practical use for his talents."

[Bobby Timmons]

I’m really surprised this is so controversial here. I haven’t been around for a long time and I’m starting remember.

[pamosmusic]

LOL, there's probably a Mark Twain quote for that, something like, "He's an extremely talented man, unfortunately no one has been able to find a practical use for his talents."

Mick Twain

[supersoul]

"A power chord is a chord in the same way that smooth jazz is jazz" -Mick Twain

[CliffR]

You folks arguing the toss with Henry would do well to read his bio before making even bigger fools of yourselves

Biography Timeline - Henry Robinett

[Hep To The Jive]

wow, the thread that should ve ended at post #2, in normal circumstances 3 pages on power chords- mind boggling!

Now first principles have been established, we may now proceed to 'Back in Black

that's the assumption i couln't get passed by, AC/DC don't employ power chords, almost never. They use triads (can I say open chords)? Mostly major. The shell voicings!

[Christian Miller]

wow, the thread that should ve ended at post #2, in normal circumstances 3 pages on power chords- mind boggling!



that's the assumption i couln't get passed by, AC/DC don't employ power chords, almost never. They use triads (can I say open chords)? Mostly major. The shell voicings!

I don’t hear thirds in the chords in the main riff of the song.

Top voice of the guitar chords goes E-D-A. They are standard shapes but it my ears at least the thirds are muted. If it were standard E, D and A grips we’d hear a clear G#-F#-C# in the top voice, which I don’t think I

I do hear the bass playing the third in the last chord, so overall a tasty inversion A/C#. (Suspect a few bar bands miss that subtlety.)
do.

That’s a trick Megadeth use on Symphony of Destruction too (and U2 a lot too, Adam Clayton is often on the third, while the Edge plays open fifths) - the bass can sweeten up the overal harmony without losing the clarity of the distorted guitars .


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[Christian Miller]

Sorry I said chords


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[pauln]

It is not clear to me if the definitions of chords (specifying the number of notes or pitches) are accounting for accidentals and enharmonics, or if they aren't and just saying there are rare exceptions (where the count would be 2 instead of 3).

Notes are defined as specific positions - the line or space it occupies on the staff, so two different members of a pitch class are not the same note. Notes are not the same as pitches; different notes (different staff positions) may have the same pitch (C#, Db) and a single note (staff position) may have different pitches (Db, D, D#).

My sense is that the chord defined as at least 3 distinct pitches rather than notes is the intended meaning, along with the rare construction of 2 pitches from 3 notes (C# Db D) or 3 pitches from 2 notes (C Db D).

[Christian Miller]

You could make the argument that ‘power chord’ is less a form of harmony and more a form of orchestrational doubling

See also acoustic overtone spectrum…


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[Bop Head]

You could make the argument that ‘power chord’ is less a form of harmony and more a form of orchestrational doubling

See also acoustic overtone spectrum…


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So the new definition is: gender-neutral chord voicing.

[henryrobinett]

It is not clear to me if the definitions of chords (specifying the number of notes or pitches) are accounting for accidentals and enharmonics, or if they aren't and just saying there are rare exceptions (where the count would be 2 instead of 3).

Notes are defined as specific positions - the line or space it occupies on the staff, so two different members of a pitch class are not the same note. Notes are not the same as pitches; different notes (different staff positions) may have the same pitch (C#, Db) and a single note (staff position) may have different pitches (Db, D, D#).

My sense is that the chord defined as at least 3 distinct pitches rather than notes is the intended meaning, along with the rare construction of 2 pitches from 3 notes (C# Db D) or 3 pitches from 2 notes (C Db D).

Why oh why are you making this so complicated? Ok, you CAN distinguish between the definition of NOTE and PITCH, but really, do you mean to be so abstruse or are you just being argumentative? It’s not hard to understand. A chord, the smallest is a triad. A triad has three distinct pitches. I say notes, but OK. A note can refer to rhythmic instruction and or pitch, wavelength. It has NOTHING to do with position. A pitch is a pitch regardless of position or instrument or staff location. It’s there in the universe. It’s global, at least as it pertains to most western cultures on earth. But it’s a very simple concept. There’s tertiary harmony, modal, quartal, atonal, etc. but the concept and definition of a chord and the accepted rules of how they are what they are is well understood.


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[Bop Head]

A new way to describe (guitar) shell voicings:

E5/C = Cmaj7

Eb5/C = Cm7

etc.