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Did Ted Greene have write anything down soloing wise?
Originally Posted by wolflen
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12-26-2019 02:07 AM
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His appoach with me was fairly "open" I would ask him stuff and he would show me what it is and how to apply it in several ways.. Originally Posted by Patriot81
he would augment the lessons with printed info sheets of chord charts/graphs or written info on the topic he was teaching me..
Though many may think he was only good with chords..some time he would use a pick and do some amazing solo work..
His web site has ALOT of info on solo work.(an example: he wrote out by hand over 200 melodic patterns --just in the key of D..)
as well as theory..harmony..and many insights on the nature of guitar and music in general..he knew alot about music history and the classical
music giants (Bach was his fave) as well as many jazz composers and players..and yes he knew the rock guys too..
I still refer to many of his "lessons" ..as they contain vast amounts of info and must be digested slowly..
remember..music is a life long journey/study..and you never stop learning..
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Im looking at his website now and its crazy how much he has uploaded. I don't even know where I would start with it. Im going to try digging out some of stuff dealing with ii-V-Is. Im shocked that I haven't seen this site before, it seems like it will be an excellent resource for my studies. Thanks! Originally Posted by wolflen
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For me it is rather obvious that - To be able to make good lines when improvising, I need to practise making good lines. Whether you should write them down or just remember what worked and what didn't is a matter of taste, but in a teacher student situation I guess writing these down for a good analysis is important. Originally Posted by Patriot81
Myself, I like to write down what worked and I don't mind recording or writing down a full "composed" solo. However, for me the purpose of writing out / working out solos is to practise improvising. I would normally give myself the task of making a solo where I for example use:
- Call and response, or
- Motivic development
- A specific jazz rhythm pattern (4 bar phrases is my preference)
- One or more particular bebop elements that I want to include (arpeggios, chromatic leading notes, chromatic enclosures, pivot arpeggios, Barry Harris scale runs, etc.)
- Specific scales (diminished, whole tone, altered, etc.) if there are special scales I want to try out.
We are all different. The way I need to work may not be the way other need to work, but this helps me.
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Etudes.
Then swap half of the etude solo for freewheelin' improv.
Then chuck out the pre fab bits altogether.
Should only take around 20 years.
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I would say not that long Originally Posted by princeplanet
But since you don't sound too optimistic about it. What is you alternative method to prepare for improvisation?
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I think he’s quoting Joe Diorio. He would say the first 20 years of jazz is the warm up.
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My "composed" solo
on Blue Bossa:
On my YouTube channel I have some other "composed" solos: Satin Doll, Autumn Leaves, All The Things Yoy Are, Green Dolphin St. and How insensitive.
I believe that play/write down melodic lines is a VERY useful method to find new ideas for single note improvisation.
How can I play a good melodic phrase if I can't write it down on paper? How can I pronounce a sentence in English if I have no idea how it should be written on paper?
If you write on paper and play a solo of 2, 3 or more choruses on a standard harmonic progression (or Blues), it is the best exercise that the guitarist can do.
Ettore - www.quenda.it
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It's the main way I practice at this point. I have staff paper books full of full choruses over tunes as well as 2-5 ideas. Writing etudes has shaped my vocabulary probably more than anything else.
I think it helps in three ways
1. You can write things out with good voice leading. This way you practice with good voice leading and it ends up in your ear and eventually your playing
2. You can write out ideas you hear that may be beyond your technical ability. Again, with practice it ends up in your playing.
3. It's a good way to work on new tunes, or difficult changes.
I think it helps in these areas because you can almost turn these more creative aspects of playing into technical exercises. Then as you're running these exercise you're in a sneaky way also expanding your ears.
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Man I’ve just never been able to do this. Originally Posted by BreckerFan
Just always struggled with it. How long did it take you to start writing lines you actually liked?
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Depends on the day. Some days I spend 45 minutes on something I end up thinking is garbage. Today I pretty quickly wrote one that I like quite a bit. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Start out with a 4 bar 2-5. Start with a concept from a solo or lesson or method book or whatever, anything you like the sound of, and come up with a good line. Once you can write out those ideas, tunes are just a matter of stringing them together.
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An alternative to 20 years of struggle? You're asking the wrong person - I wouldn't know. Try asking Clint Strong Originally Posted by gersdal
I would say not that long But since you don't sound too optimistic about it. What is you alternative method to prepare for improvisation?
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The way I look at it is that you can’t reliably put new stuff into your improvisation right away.
Because of this I think composition of some type - be it working out lines and licks, writing an etude or a solo or composing a head over changes - is absolutely essential to internalise ideas and sounds.
If you find yourself noodling and this annoys you, consider that what your playing needs is more intention and playing composed music provides that intention absolutely.
I also feel this carries over into improv. You can even make a plan of what to play, and then be flexible about not sticking to it if something comes up. We do this in everyday life all the time.
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I always just stole things I liked. I have no ideas of my own. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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It didn't take me long, but I've absolutely had students that have struggeled. Taking a lick you like from someone else and rewriting this is a possible starting point IMHO. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Right on. I’m sure it’s just a matter of the amount of time I’ve committed to it. But it’s never been something I’ve stuck with. I have a lot of other things I like to do, but I’ve always had friends who swear by writing etudes and lines, and it’s just never been my bag of chips. Originally Posted by BreckerFan
Maybe time to try again.
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^ Try combining scales, arps, intervals, and chromatics over the changes. :P Makes it really easy.
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Yeah it does just take time, like anything it will get better with practice. One other thing I forgot to include is the overall arc of the lines. Being able to write them out allows you to plan out how lines flow, start and end points, the direction parts move relative to each other, etc, and view them more cohesively, and then train your ear to work in that way as you practice them. I think that can be one of the more difficult pieces of learning to improvise if you're trying to get together on the fly as you're actually improvising.
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This big time. If you want to get transcribed ideas into your playing, stick pieces you like in lines you compose. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Try combining verbs, adjectives, nouns and adverbs into sentences. Makes writing poetry real easy. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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Hahaha. Well-played. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
Honestly I’ve been getting into some of Jordan’s stuff. Not into the four note things yet, but I’ve been fiddling and getting them under my fingers. Maybe a good opportunity to try writing some lines with them.
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It's not rocket science, give it a try. Sequence an arp then a scale bit arp scale bit, then end on an enclosure to a wider interval and tell me it didn't sound like a good jazz line. Originally Posted by James W
Try combining verbs, adjectives, nouns and adverbs into sentences. Makes writing poetry real easy.
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Yep short motifs and longer lines is another important truth to work with for how jazz lines are built and how you hear them in the wild. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Alright. Let’s say you have a little line you like. What’s next?
Do you go all out on them like it’s a transcription? Pick it apart, transpose, sequence it out through scales?
Other stuff, more stuff, less stuff?
(Particularly for Mr Brecker over there, since he said this is the primary way he’s been practicing lately. But let me know anyone.)
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