Learning to read notation

[Bobalou]

Looking for a free site that teaches which string and fret # that notes on the staff correspond to.

[pauln]

...which string and fret # that notes on the staff correspond to.

Learning to read music notation is an adventure. To do it right you have to approach it carefully with respect to the definitions of things. Some of the things people talk casually about in music have specific definitions that are different from what people casually talk about... it matters a lot when you get to reading music, and you may have to undo some casual ideas in order to proceed.

For example, the notes on the staff are not pitches like the string and fret combinations. Notes are defined as the letter names of the lines and spaces of the staff. The specific pitches of notes (letter names) take different pitches by the attachment or absence of accidentals (sharps, flats, and natural signs), or they default to inherenting them from the key signature.

This means Gb, G, and G# are all called the note "G", but these are three distinct pitches. All these notes take the second from the bottom line of the staff and if a mark is there it is called "G". If the mark was on the second space from the bottom it would be an "A" and if it was the same pitch as the G# it would be called "Ab" because its name comes from its placement in the staff, not its pitch.

This means there is no one-to-one correspondence between notes and string fret positions - a single string fret position may take different note names, and a particular written note's pitch, depending on key and accidentals, may be played in multiple positions of string fret.

It is important to grasp this early because when you get to later concepts they will be based on these definitions. For example, intervals are defined as the distance between notes (not the distance between pitches). So intervals are the distance between the lines and spaces occupied by the notes, and the quality parameter of these intervals accounts of the variation in pitch that a note may produce.

It may help to understand that the music notation system is a very clever form of data compression. The staff, the notes, and key signatures are designed in such a way that they conspire to do something pretty amazing - despite diatonic scales being constructed to contain two discontinuities in their semi-tone position structures, all diatonic scales in all keys will show on paper as smooth seamless strings of symbols, alternating linearly through line space line space... with no shared lines or spaces, no gaps, no misalignment, and no discontinuities.... this made reading music on the page much easier (and easier to read ahead).

[cosmic gumbo]

notes on guitar neck - Google Search

[Bobalou]

did you try youtube? I'd bet anything what you need is on there

Good idea

Learning to read music notation is an adventure. To do it right you have to approach it carefully with respect to the definitions of things. Some of the things people talk casually about in music have specific definitions that are different from what people casually talk about... it matters a lot when you get to reading music, and you may have to undo some casual ideas in order to proceed.

For example, the notes on the staff are not pitches like the string and fret combinations. Notes are defined as the letter names of the lines and spaces of the staff. The specific pitches of notes (letter names) take different pitches by the attachment or absence of accidentals (sharps, flats, and natural signs), or they default to inherenting them from the key signature.

This means Gb, G, and G# are all called the note "G", but these are three distinct pitches. All these notes take the second from the bottom line of the staff and if a mark is there it is called "G". If the mark was on the second space from the bottom it would be an "A" and if it was the same pitch as the G# it would be called "Ab" because its name comes from its placement in the staff, not its pitch.

This means there is no one-to-one correspondence between notes and string fret positions - a single string fret position may take different note names, and a particular written note's pitch, depending on key and accidentals, may be played in multiple positions of string fret.

It is important to grasp this early because when you get to later concepts they will be based on these definitions. For example, intervals are defined as the distance between notes (not the distance between pitches). So intervals are the distance between the lines and spaces occupied by the notes, and the quality parameter of these intervals accounts of the variation in pitch that a note may produce.

It may help to understand that the music notation system is a very clever form of data compression. The staff, the notes, and key signatures are designed in such a way that they conspire to do something pretty amazing - despite diatonic scales being constructed to contain two discontinuities in their semi-tone position structures, all diatonic scales in all keys will show on paper as smooth seamless strings of symbols, alternating linearly through line space line space... with no shared lines or spaces, no gaps, no misalignment, and no discontinuities.... this made reading music on the page much easier (and easier to read ahead).

Yes I know that the note played when reading notation is also a function of the key signature of the song. However for the way I think when playing if I'm trying to play the "G" note from the second ledger line if I know where all the G's are with that relative pitch then I can find them on the guitar and it's easy enough for me to fret all of the G's up a half step to G#, if the tune is in A. Likewise It would be easy to fret all of the G's down a half step if the song is in Db.

notes on guitar neck - Google Search

Yes this would help too and may be closer to what I was looking for actually. However I was hoping for a website tool that will show me the note on the staff and then quiz me on the location of that note on the fretboard, with answers provided at the flick of the mouse. Cool . Keeping in mind that part of the complexity of the guitar is that the same note (with the same pitch) often appears in multiple places on the neck. Unlike the relatively simpler, in that regard, piano or horn that has 1 "middle C" and only one, for example. I think that would be a great way to do "Drills" and speed up the learning process. This tab would help too but then again it only shows one of the possibilities when in some cases that note appears in more than one place.

This is helpful and we're getting closer with this chart though.

[Jack E Blue]

Sounds like you're looking for some kind of interactive game. I have a game to identify notes on the staff: Notably Quick Guitar and I had another for notes on the fretboard that I can't find now. But not the 2 put together.

Once you can read notes on the staff and know where to find them on the fretboard half the battle is over. Then it's just a matter of trying to play stuff from written music. I highly recommend that you practice stuff from books that don't have any tab. My personal experience has been that if tab is present my eyes will look at the tab and not the standard notation.

[bako]

There is a chart in the Carcassi Guitar Method that has 2 fingerboards next to each other.

The 1st is like the one Cosmic Gumbo posted without the colors.
The 2nd is made up of 6 music staffs representing 6 strings.

I'm sure such similar charts can be found elsewhere but I tried google for a few minutes and couldn't locate one.

[mhch]

Ultimately the issue is not only to know which notated note is where on the fretboard, but for the brain to quickly drive fingers to the proper location of that note, choosing the one among those several possible ones that is the most convenient and best sounding to play with regards to the current hand location on the fretboard and the suite of notes to play.

Practicing scales in all keys, major scale first, following the cycle of 4th and several other irregular sequencing like minor 3rd (irregular = not simply shifting one or two frets) is probably the beest way to train your brain for that. The important thing is to practice in all keys so that one has to quickly find the starting note of the scale at play (not necessarily the root !) and drive the fingers accordingly to access the other notes.

[RWJax]

Counting Sheep



If you are wanting to be able to quickly identify notes on the fretboard, I wrote an exercise I call Counting Sheep -- because in addition to using it on the instrument, I also work through it mentally while nodding off... it's is one of the first exercises in my FretBoard ABCs book.

The idea behind this exercise is to spend no more than 5 minutes at the beginning of each practice session playing through Counting Sheep. And soon enough, you won't need to Count Sheep at all.

If you can, set the metronome to 60 bpm and play along. If that's too fast, play on every other beat. Don't worry about fingering. As you pick each note, say it aloud. Better yet, sing the names of the notes on pitch.

Once you have this pattern in your head, try mentally playing through the exercise as you fall asleep at night. You'll be amazed at how much more quickly you'll learn the notes, and it can also cure insomnia!

The exercise itself was a jazz guitar lesson assignment from my teacher. Turning it into a mental imaging exercise was my idea. It’s free on my FretBoardABCs.com website.

Click here to download the file.

[mrcee]

Writing music is a great way to improve your reading. It doesn't even have to be creative and could be something as basic as a scale or simple exercise you're familiar with. Write scales out from the lowest to the highest place they appear on the instrument. Do it as 1/4 notes or tied 1/8ths or whatever. Transcribe a simple melody like a nursery rhyme or Happy Birthday and write it out. Or make up a simple little four bar phrase. Transpose it into different keys and write those out always being aware of rhythmic considerations like note values, rests and dots. Even something like taking some standard notation from an online source and copying it by hand on paper is good practice while trying to be aware of what the names of the notes are and ideally where they are on the neck. Make your own staff paper with a ruler. I've done it. It all gets you involved with the paper. As has been discussed elsewhere on this forum, you learn best by doing.

[Jonah]

Yes this would help too and may be closer to what I was looking for actually. However I was hoping for a website tool that will show me the note on the staff and then quiz me on the location of that note on the fretboard, with answers provided at the flick of the mouse. Cool . Keeping in mind that part of the complexity of the guitar is that the same note (with the same pitch) often appears in multiple places on the neck. Unlike the relatively simpler, in that regard, piano or horn that has 1 "middle C" and only one, for example. I think that would be a great way to do "Drills" and speed up the learning process. This tab would help too but then again it only shows one of the possibilities when in some cases that note appears in more than one place.

You make it too complex...

it's your ears that shuld tell you right or wrong when fretting.

Just work with the instrument, use simple sheets, melodies and scales... and read.

Linit yourself with.. say VII and X frets and try to play all Db major sounds there namiong it... or I-IV-V in C major.. you can invent plaenty of excersises having only guitar pencile and a piece of paper.. much more efficient than clicking virtual fretboard

Louis Bellson escersise are also very good to learn to sight read actual rythmic context

[MarkRhodes]

Counting Sheep
If you are wanting to be able to quickly identify notes on the fretboard, I wrote an exercise I call Counting Sheep -- because in addition to using it on the instrument, I also work through it mentally while nodding off... it's is one of the first exercises in my FretBoard ABCs book.

That's neat. Thanks. I think I know the notes well---I guess I'm about to find out.

[henryrobinett]

I've been very successful teaching reading to my inmate guitar students. I figure if I've figured out how to teach those guys, mostly total beginners, this method can teach anybody. We're sight reading in open position right now. All in the key of C but with a lot of accidentals. Key changes next! 8th notes but fairly simple. These are reading exercises I've written, so the students can't cheat by playing tunes they know by ear.

[MarkRhodes]

Linit yourself with.. say VII and X frets and try to play all Db major sounds there namiong it... or I-IV-V in C major.. you can invent plaenty of excersises having only guitar pencile and a piece of paper.. much more efficient than clicking virtual fretboard

I found that the better I know the guitar neck, the easier it is to read. I learned a Ron Eschete exercise where you play through all 12 keys within a six fret range. (And there are only two such ranges: from frets 2-5, with a one-fret back stretch for the index finger (1st fret) and a one-fret up stretch for the pinky (6th fret); and then frets 8-11 with a one-fret stretch on each end.) Just saying the root names out loud was a good start and soon I knew the names pretty easily everywhere. At least ascending. (I struggle reciting things backwards, though I'm getting better at it.)

When reading things now, it's just easier for me. I think because I have a better sense of notes in relation to other notes. I know where the chord tones are and reading becomes easier. (Simple chords appear as space-space-space or line-line-line on the musical staff, as they take every other note of the scale, so if the root is on a line, the 3rd and 5th and 7th will be too.)

In a way, reading note-to-note makes it harder. It's sort of like reading letter to letter rather than syllable to syllable. My 2 cents. (And I'm not a good reader but I've gotten better recently as a result of getting to know the fingerboard, all of it, much, much better. I hope to improve a great deal more as the year unfolds.)

[KirkP]

I found it helpful to break the memorization task into bite sized chunks. For example, memorize where the “white notes” are on one string at a time. Once you’ve made some headway there, call out random note names and see how quickly you can find the note on every string. Do that first with white notes, then after it becomes easy do the same with sharped and flat notes.
You can do exercises like this on the guitar itself, but I find it also helps to do them as mental exercise away from the guitar. Going back and forth between an imagined guitar and a real instrument seems to help the neurons make connections.

[Jonah]

I found that the better I know the guitar neck, the easier it is to read. I learned a Ron Eschete exercise where you play through all 12 keys within a six fret range. (And there are only two such ranges: from frets 2-5, with a one-fret back stretch for the index finger (1st fret) and a one-fret up stretch for the pinky (6th fret); and then frets 8-11 with a one-fret stretch on each end.) Just saying the root names out loud was a good start and soon I knew the names pretty easily everywhere. At least ascending. (I struggle reciting things backwards, though I'm getting better at it.)

When reading things now, it's just easier for me. I think because I have a better sense of notes in relation to other notes. I know where the chord tones are and reading becomes easier. (Simple chords appear as space-space-space or line-line-line on the musical staff, as they take every other note of the scale, so if the root is on a line, the 3rd and 5th and 7th will be too.)

In a way, reading note-to-note makes it harder. It's sort of like reading letter to letter rather than syllable to syllable. My 2 cents. (And I'm not a good reader but I've gotten better recently as a result of getting to know the fingerboard, all of it, much, much better. I hope to improve a great deal more as the year unfolds.)

I had interesting expereince...
I learnt to sight-read guitar music as a kid (not perfectly maybe but quite fluently) - iut was classical mostly.
But later when I began to play lutes - I began to play with tabs because for lutes it's authentic but if you do it seriously you quickly come to the point that you play pieces but you do not always get what notes you play.
And when I began to play in ensemble I had to play from bass or from notation.
So I elaborated the way how to learn to sight-read.. first in renaissance tuning and later in baroque tuning.

Basically it combined two elements:
1) learning harmonic language patterns practically on the fretboard (for these music it's cadences and scales or early modes) - namely patterns... to make fingers respond mechanically on I-V-I in key of Bb in various position.. the same concerns lines. It does not exclude ears

I notice that the most important thing is that you hear it
For example I play: I - V - I cadence in various position and even if at this level looking at the fretboard I do not immidiately see and say every note I fretted or plucked... I still hear the bass move, the suspension of 4th and resolution etc. that is I can play it with the eyes closed and hear it even if I do not know what I am doing wuth eyes open.
This is very important for the beginning.

It was relatively easy for me since I always naturally tended to play blindlyLater you develope both skills (but actually who needs to see? if you can both play and hear?))))


2) when playing music studying idiomatic texture specific for the style or instrument - that is simple speaking: what kind of lines, bass moves, counterpoints are typical for that...


so that when you sight-read you can preview how the music will go by first notes or harmonies.

Of course it is easy to organize probably when you already play and sight read in different tuning.

But I think this is what behind it.

Actually to be honest - to really sight-read jazz sheets (not interepretation of charts or reading lines but real sheets) I would have needed to go through the same approach probabaly...

[matt.guitarteacher]

For me, it's definitely become 2nd finger reference. Trying to reference the second finger note on the sixth string , in whatever position I'm in at the moment . So if I am in seventh position, I imagine the "chord symbol" is C "something", regardless of key or chord of the moment basically.

Very helpful for accidentals or "out" moments when you're already kind of ingrained in a guitar fingering pattern. Anyway, this kind of clears the mind and pushes the pattern back to a more secondary level. You can be aware of both or more at the same time: key at the moment, pattern of the moment, chord of the moment etc.

But the concrete, physical location of notes is allowed to be at the forefront, more like sax or piano etc.

[Bobalou]

Counting Sheep



If you are wanting to be able to quickly identify notes on the fretboard, I wrote an exercise I call Counting Sheep -- because in addition to using it on the instrument, I also work through it mentally while nodding off... it's is one of the first exercises in my FretBoard ABCs book.

The idea behind this exercise is to spend no more than 5 minutes at the beginning of each practice session playing through Counting Sheep. And soon enough, you won't need to Count Sheep at all.

If you can, set the metronome to 60 bpm and play along. If that's too fast, play on every other beat. Don't worry about fingering. As you pick each note, say it aloud. Better yet, sing the names of the notes on pitch.

Once you have this pattern in your head, try mentally playing through the exercise as you fall asleep at night. You'll be amazed at how much more quickly you'll learn the notes, and it can also cure insomnia!

The exercise itself was a jazz guitar lesson assignment from my teacher. Turning it into a mental imaging exercise was my idea. It’s free on my FretBoardABCs.com website.

Click here to download the file.

Except I want to avoid having any TAB on the page at all. I don't want to be able to "cheat" by peeking at the TAB. TAB is a very cumbersome and inefficient way to read music IMO. Actual music notation is much better than TAB.

Writing music is a great way to improve your reading. It doesn't even have to be creative and could be something as basic as a scale or simple exercise you're familiar with. Write scales out from the lowest to the highest place they appear on the instrument. Do it as 1/4 notes or tied 1/8ths or whatever. Transcribe a simple melody like a nursery rhyme or Happy Birthday and write it out. Or make up a simple little four bar phrase. Transpose it into different keys and write those out always being aware of rhythmic considerations like note values, rests and dots. Even something like taking some standard notation from an online source and copying it by hand on paper is good practice while trying to be aware of what the names of the notes are and ideally where they are on the neck. Make your own staff paper with a ruler. I've done it. It all gets you involved with the paper. As has been discussed elsewhere on this forum, you learn best by doing.

Yes sounds like a great idea. I will try to do some of this at some point.

You make it too complex...

it's your ears that shuld tell you right or wrong when fretting.

Just work with the instrument, use simple sheets, melodies and scales... and read.

Linit yourself with.. say VII and X frets and try to play all Db major sounds there namiong it... or I-IV-V in C major.. you can invent plaenty of excersises having only guitar pencile and a piece of paper.. much more efficient than clicking virtual fretboard

Louis Bellson escersise are also very good to learn to sight read actual rythmic context

Yes Jonah I get what you're saying here and totally agree with most of it. I've been working at it and its coming along faster than I would have thought initially. I'm very pleased. I know with some eblow grease and hard work I'll get where I want to be with it sooner rather than later.

For me, it's definitely become 2nd finger reference. Trying to reference the second finger note on the sixth string , in whatever position I'm in at the moment . So if I am in seventh position, I imagine the "chord symbol" is C "something", regardless of key or chord of the moment basically.

Very helpful for accidentals or "out" moments when you're already kind of ingrained in a guitar fingering pattern. Anyway, this kind of clears the mind and pushes the pattern back to a more secondary level. You can be aware of both or more at the same time: key at the moment, pattern of the moment, chord of the moment etc.

But the concrete, physical location of notes is allowed to be at the forefront, more like sax or piano etc.

"Second finger reference", do you mean this?: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...joWVwNH0S4VTxh

[RWJax]

Except I want to avoid having any TAB on the page at all. I don't want to be able to "cheat" by peeking at the TAB. TAB is a very cumbersome and inefficient way to read music IMO. Actual music notation is much better than TAB.

Just to be clear, the Counting Sheep exercise is designed to burn the names of the notes on the fretboard into your brain, so that when you read the sheet music (without tab), you will know where to find those notes that you are reading.

Use the Counting Sheep pdf only to give you the structure of the exercise (i.e., c c c c c c f f f f f f Bb Bb .... from 6th string to 1st , then again from 1st to 6th). You don't want to mentally image the tab! And you don't need to mentally image the staff notation, just say the notes and visualize their locations -- systematically -- on the fretboard.

Anyway, good luck!

[Bobalou]

Hey RW that's really a great exercise for getting the notes of the fretboard firmly in your brain and your muscle memory at the same time. Saying the notes as you play them is also a fantastic idea. I know Howard Roberts was a big proponent of doing that to help learn them faster.

If you don't mind, for me, I'm going to call it "Road Map to Literacy" instead becasue that name resonates with some things I've been trying to accomplish with music.

QUESTION: Would people recommend using some special books or certain sheet music to get proficient at reading fastest or is using real tunes just as good? I've heard some talk about using violin or sax exercise sheet music so that's why I'm asking.

[mrcee]

There's no magic pill or book or special sheet music that will turn a player into a good reader although there are lots of good books out there. The point is to make reading, and writing, music no more separate from playing the guitar than tuning it or changing the strings. The same with knowing the neck. And the two obviously go hand in hand. I'm not the best player on this forum but I play ok and have for a long time, a few decades, and I can't remember a time when I didn't know the name of the notes on the guitar. Or what process i used to learn them. Make it a priority and you'll learn the notes on the neck and where they are on the paper fast. I'll sometimes have a pen instead of a pick in my right hand holding it in such a way that I can pick with my thumb, and I'm not any kind of composer and my reading is only fair. I'm no Barry Galbraith. I just am in the habit of jotting little things down. If I gave guitar lessons the first thing I would ask a potential student is how long they've been playing. The next question would be do they know the names of the notes on the neck. If they said no I'd tell them to learn them up to the 5th fret and call me back.

Shame yourself into it. If you don't know the name of the notes on the FB you don't know nothin'.

And knowing the notes is just the beginning. Reading the timing is the hard part. Speaking of helpful books, Rhythms Complete by Bugs Bower is good. There are probably more up to date ones but it's one that I used and it helped a lot.

Rhythms Complete (Treble Clef): Charles Colin, Bugs Bower: Amazon.com: Books

[pcsanwald]

QUESTION: Would people recommend using some special books or certain sheet music to get proficient at reading fastest or is using real tunes just as good?

I think it's critical to, as soon as you are able, use music that you want to be able to sightread in practice. Sight reading classical guitar music is very different from lead sheets, and both those are very different from big band charts. I also think for big band and group playing, it's critical to practice sightreading pieces with the other music in the piece going on around you. it is one thing to read a part and have it sound good solo, but quite another to sightread and sound good with the rest of the band.

Classical repertoire like Bach can be great to work with (especially from a notes per square inch perspective), but it won't help your skill at reading syncopation. Heavy 16th note syncopation rarely come up in jazz lead sheets, but is critical for a lot of funk and latin musics. Accidentals are usually more prominent in jazz or really modern classical than in other styles.

Learning to sightread well has been a huge focus for me and is a big, big topic. But, it's fun and you can make improvements quickly, especially if you are just starting out!

[Jonah]

Classical repertoire like Bach can be great to work with (especially from a notes per square inch perspective), but it won't help your skill at reading syncopation.

Actually it will.. but very different syncopation))) Bach's music is very much syncopated.

[christianm77]

Well for the syncopation stuff you have Belson. Sorted.

[Jonah]

Well for the syncopation stuff you have Belson. Sorted.

Belson is really good (I mentioned him above) and if you are creative enough gives a pattern for vairous application melodic/hamonic (triadic--- oops)as excersises