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Perfect Pitch and Relative Pitch Update - This week April 25, 2019 I already learned 85 voicings and closing in on 100. My goal is to reach 200 this year. My piano teacher is teaching me a different set of voicings that's why I have a new set every week. So it's an attainable goal. As for the Relative Pitch, on my way to piano lessons, in the car, I was listening to an Andrew Lloyd Webber Jesus Christ Superstar song called Mary Magdalene (I believe that's the title I didn't look it up) I was able to recognize the entire opening passage - mi mi fa mi re do la sol- fa mi re do re- the notes just popped out! I checked on the keyboard and I was right! I guess the melody dictation and transcribing that I have been doing is starting to pay off. Also in my melody dictation I already completed the series of 4 note melodies starting on the scale degree 1 within the G3-C5 range. Now I'm moving on to the scale degree 2.
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04-25-2019 07:41 AM
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Perfect Pitch Update - May 4, 2019 - I finally reached the milestone of learning 100 chord voicings by absolute pitch. My goal is to reach 200 chord voicings and it seems that I am on my way of achieving that. There might be a possibility I might learn 300 chord voicings...who knows...only time will tell.
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Perfect Pitch Update - May 13, 2019 - I have now unlocked 110 chord voicings exceeding the 100. Also with the Perfect Pitch Harmonic Intervals/Diads...I am still only at 10 variables and I am stuck there for a while. The single notes I am stuck with only 21 piano keys. I am progressing very well with the Charlie Banacos. I am working with the single notes with Functional Ear Trainer and the 2 and 3 note chords, I used my own tools and it's coming along nicely. What I'm hoping to do with all of these is that in the near future, I will upload it into a youtube video and change the way people think about Perfect Pitch. I also notice that the Perfect Pitch videos on Youtube are barren and stuck with the same old videos...Also most of the people demonstrating there Perfect Pitch are children...I like to change that....If the whole world sees an early 30's adult demonstrating Perfect Pitch...and the more I do it...maybe Rick Beato will delete his Adults Can't Develop Perfect Pitch Youtube videos.
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Rick Beato won't do that because he's...
not a nice fellow (I caught myself)
He has some interesting stuff up on Youtube, but he's very narrow minded. It's either how he thinks of music or the highway.
Don't even get me started with his views on music education K-12th grade (US system)
I'm still hurt by those videos.
Just do your thing, and if it catches on, so be it. Don't worry about Rick Beato.
I'd be interested (sincerely) how you use perfect pitch to further your knowledge of improvisation and communication on the band stand. That's why I study relative pitch--to further my understanding of improvisation, communication, and how music works.
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I'm glad you asked me of how I'll use Perfect Pitch. When it comes to improvisation and a band setting, Perfect Pitch is very useful to determine the Key of a Song. TBH I don't have that skill yet, but I am working on it with dozens of tonality exercises where I use several loops of my DAW and configure it with different keys and also I use real music, quizzing myself with them. I am sick and tired of constantly asking the keyboardist what key the song is in every time I play at church. But in my experience with improvisation and playing in bands is that once you have the key figured out, the rest of the faculties you are using is relative pitch.
Originally Posted by Irez87
I also like to thank you of having the same views of Rick Beato that he is narrow minded. If you search "ear training" on Youtube, you'll find that it is infested with a lot of Rick Beato videos. In the videos, he doesn't really teach you how to develop a good ear, he just puts his son with PP and demonstrate that ear training is impossible or at least that's how I'm seeing it. And yes several of his videos have infuriated and gave me bad feelings.
When it comes to ear training found in Youtube, You should check out Jeff Schneider. He has a lot of great things to say on the Charlie Banacos Method. One of my favorite quotes from him was something he got from Charlie: People born with Perfect Pitch don't have to work acquiring it. Normal people like us who don't have Perfect Pitch have to work as twice as hard. But when a non-AP individual acquires Perfect Pitch thru practice he is at that same level of that person born with Perfect Pitch. Forgive me, I'm bad at quoting.
But I believe Charlie is referring to that stage when you're already mastered identifying 7-10 note chords and you are already identifying voicings and multiple layers of orchestration by ear. That what I like to accomplish with the Charlie Banacos Method so I'm excited!!!
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Yeah, I've watched a bunch of Jeff's videos.
But I think there's more than just key identification with all this ear training.
For me, it's about really communicating with others--and editing out all the bullshite from your playing. If you can really hear where the harmony is going, and you can hear a line in your head, then you won't be tempted to use musical diarrhea--the really watery kind (I change a lot of diapers).
In an interview Peter Berstein did years back, he said that he wasn't at all worried about competing with guitarists who had ten times his technique. He was searching for musical purity, and communicating an idea in its most distilled form.
George Benson does this as well, even though his lines are more dense. No bullshite.
There's plenty others. Oh, let's add Charlie Parker to the list--no bullshite. A lot of notes, yes--but each note had a purpose in the drive and story that his music told.
That's why I train my ear--to get rid of the bullshite and really communicate with others--whether it's in my accompaniment or my line playing.
That, and being able to take theory and sing it--you know what I mean. We might be skinning the jazzcat a wee bit differently, but I think we're after the same hide--no?
Don't go telling people here that I don't like Rick Beato. Half of JGF had pitchforks in hand when I started talking about my own ear training journey. That said, I am a bit obsessive about Contextual Ear Training--and that comes across and can be abrasive.
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Just to give heads-up. Deducting a key doesn't even need perfect pitch. You play one single note against the chords and it's entirely trainable to start playing in that key instantly. Also when improvising, it's entirely possible to train to play in key through difficult songs with lots of modulations without ever having to think about "this is Fm7, this is C#7... etc". The sad part is, the quality of such impro is disgusting at first Originally Posted by Jason Sioco
Gets better eventually but IMO takes more effort to get it right than going the sensible way.
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To both Irez87 and Jason Sioco,
What would make this thread interesting is if you would post your playing (including your own tunes) as you progress through ear training. That is what's relevant in my opinion and would be interesting to follow. This is a jazz guitar forum so I'm assuming that the objective of all this work is to improve your ability to play jazz.
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Very interesting point was made in a recent Adam Neely Q&A video regarding bandleaders who seem to be able to sing a song in the correct key (without playing their instrument) yet do not have perfect pitch. This is becaue they are acutely aware of the timbre of their instrument after playing it for so many years. So guitar player, for example, may automatically "know" the sound of the low E without referring to the instrument and without having perfect pitch.
Discussion starts at about 4:20
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I spent a lot of time on ear training. 4 semesters in college (torture and I wasn't a music major!). I'm embarassed to say I bought the Burge perfect pitch and relative pitch courses (probably 30 years ago, could have bought a nice guitar instead).
There are a group of jazz musicians that get a lot of gigs in San Diego, they all know each other, and are interchangeable parts. Say in a week where one of these guys/gals play 4 gigs, they might play 100 different tunes. They can learn tunes on the fly on the bandstand. Some have perfect pitch, some don't.
One day I was taking a guitar lesson from one of these guys. We started talking about all the ear training I was working on. Singing intervals, modes, transcribing bach chorals without an instrument. This pro said, "I can't do any of that".
Well that made me rethink the whole thing. What he could do is listen to a jazz tune that he didn't know and hear the changes, he'd say something like, that chorus is like Back Home in Indiana, and that part of the verse is the same as All of Me. That takes experience, a good memory, and yes a bit of an ear but not at the micro level like I was trying to develop. I thought that was all I needed to be able to do, that is much more practical.
This is why I question the whole micro level ear training. Just my opinion, I think the best ear training for ones advancement at playing the guitar is learning a lot of tunes and playing often a lot of tunes and having a couple 100 tunes that you know. And, you are developing your playing at the same time as developing your ear.
I'm still interested in improving/learning but no longer aspire to play at a pro level. So, for me it's just all for the fun of it. As such the only ear training I do is transcribing when I'm learning a tune off of a recording. I do enjoy that.
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Yeah, these "pro-level" ambitions can die off some time and give more space to just enjoy what we already can do - which is still a LOT Originally Posted by fep
But this is derailing.. sorry.
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Fep,
I have posted my playing, on the Performance Ear Training thread, quite a few posts.
I don't compose original material, I wish I did.
Transcription is HUGE--I even said that in my own thread. Contextual Ear Training won't magically teach you vocabulary. Neither will it miraculously teach you tunes.
CTE helps me access the sounds I hear in my head, on the bandstand, and off the records--in the moment.
I'll repost some of my own improvisations here (sorry to hijack your thread, Jason. I need to do this before the pitch forks come out)
Sophisticated Lady, my solo starts at 6:40
On the Street Where You Live, my solo starts at 5:02
On The Street by Irez87 | Free Listening on SoundCloud
Is it earth shattering stuff? No, but my playing is a hell of a lot closer to what I want to hear out of myself than it was before I started ear training.
Both solos were taken without fully learning the tune OR looking at the music. Therefore, I sometimes lose the form.
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Perfect Pitch and Relative Pitch Update - May 23, 2019 - I have already unlocked 120 chord voicings by absolute pitch. There's a particular category in my AP Practice where it's currently at 48 chord voicings...Once it reaches 50, I plan to convert that into a Youtube video. This involves recording the video screen on my laptop. I still have to learn the logistics of how to do it, when that time comes. My long term goal for Perfect Pitch is to fill Youtube with my Perfect Pitch videos to show that Perfect Pitch can be developed and learned, if you have the right tools and the right approach. As for the Relative Pitch, I usually extract chords of actual songs as a daily ritual, but this song is special. I have been listening to this band since I was a teenager and this particular song I have been listening for many years. One day I listened to this song for my enjoyment, when suddenly there were a bunch of functional chords that jumped out of me, while listening that I decided to extract the chords of the entire song by ear and I accomplished it. If you're wondering what song it is, here it is...
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I'm more interested in the implications this would have for brain plasticity and I'm sure the OP will be written up in a journal of neuroscience if he can demonstrate that he developed true PP as an adult. Originally Posted by Lobomov
So when are you going to post an youtube of you playing. I'd love to hear what someone with a great ear like yours is capable of
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Perfect Pitch Update - May 27, 2019 - I officially completed one deck containing 50 chord voicings. Like I said, I will convert this feat into a Youtube video. It may take a few days, because I have to still learn and understand the logistics of recording a moving video screen. But this will be one of the many Perfect Pitch Youtube videos that I will upload. I would then be an adult not born with Perfect Pitch, who is a force with absolute pitch, who will rival those who are born with it.
Long term relative pitch goals - Once I am fluent with all 12 functional tones, intervals, chords, etc and I am just toying with it. I will demonstrate my relative pitch skills with playing an instrument to Youtube. I am already doing some of that already with Relative Pitch, but I would appear like a poser and a fraud if I do it now, because I couldn't do it as fluently as I would like as of now.
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Jason, I worried about posting my playing after talking everyone's ear off with Contextual Ear Training--I still do.
But, if you post some of your musical abilities--even if it isn't perfect--people will get more of an idea about what you are working on and how you are applying it to real music.
If you get attacked, I'll stand up for you.
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Me too. Originally Posted by Irez87
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Perfect Pitch and Relative Pitch Update - June 6, 2019 - I have now unlocked 130 chord voicings 24 single notes and 17 harmonic intervals for Absolute Pitch.
About the youtube perfect pitch video thing:
*I took a week off last week from practicing perfect pitch, because I had to...I was way behind in my actual music lessons. Sometimes I over train my ear that my actual music practice (technique, repertoire) gets compensated.
*When I came back practicing perfect pitch the following week, I was all cobwebs.
* then I had to learn how to record a video screen: this took me a while to figure out, but long story short, I now know how to record a video screen and it's easy.
*It's just a matter of time, if I am able to capture one particular AP session where I get 100% accuracy on this deck of 50 chords then I will post it on youtube.
Relative Pitch Update - On my charlie banacos practice, I have already added 5 to 6 note chord voicings. It's basically the same voicings that I have already been doing with perfect pitch, but they act as functional voicings. i.e. let's say the voicing is R 5 9 3 7 11 then I will use the same voicing to function as a I chord IV chord V chord VI II III chord and so on. this is the advantage of someone like me who does ear training by customizing my own exercises, sometimes my imagination goes wild!!!
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That might explain what you have been writing here for the last three months. Originally Posted by Jason Sioco
...sometimes my imagination goes wild!!!
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Perfect Pitch Update - June 18, 2019 - For the past 2 weeks, I have been distracted by the NBA Finals. I live near Toronto so I was watching the Raptors. I'm glad that's all over and I got the result I want on that thing. That's good because I don't have to watch basketball for the next winter months and for the rest of my life. I am a musician, I'm not supposed to watch sports. Music and sports don't mix. Both mediums require your time and attention and you can choose only one. I am now back at my Perfect Pitch Routine and my schedule is back to normal. The long layoff also delayed my upcoming Youtube video. In the video, I am not that familiar with the chords 46-50 and I'm making mistakes with those. I have to be 100% accurate at my execution, because I have a bad reputation on Youtube. I am one of those people that don't get a lot of respect from Youtubers and I easily get some dislikes. My general cover videos don't get mixed with the rest of the group, but placed in my own name, even with a good tag. My videos are considered mediocre. Of course I myself want to change the narrative, but right now I'm stuck.
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Music and sports definitely mix--why do you think there's a basketball team named Utah Jazz?
Peter Martin loves Basketball and he's a killing jazz pianist.
I think Miles obsessed over basketball from what I remember from Quincy Troupe's Miles and Me.
Maybe you can record some stuff on Sound Cloud? The studies you are doing sound very exciting, but I wanna hear how you apply them to your music.
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All of my customized ear training exercises are built with the purpose and end goal of effortlessly recognizing melodies, chord progressions, voicings, orchestration, basslines, etc of actual real world music in real time. Over the years and even today on a weekly basis, I have encountered and been with people who have really prolific hearing (source of inspiration Originally Posted by Irez87
) I first been with this people back in 2009 when I was studying in a bible college (studying church music). I was so inspired that I said to myself at that time "10 years from now, I will master ear training and be like "them"" Guess what I'm doing 10 years later in 2019. I wouldn't say I have mastered ear training, but I am playing by ear and heading to the right direction.
One thing that I didn't mention yet that I am already doing are creating countless sets of ear training tapes for relative pitch. Since I ended school, I have two types of days: day-off or on-the-go. As much as I like to stay home and practice, I am not immune to on the go days. Right now I am hearing noises from my family that we would have a couple of long road trips this summer. I built these ear training tapes for these kind of circumstances. So that I can still train my ear when I am outside, on the plane, at the doctor's office, where I am away from my normal habitat. During the NBA Finals, I compensated my lack of productivity at that time, by listening to my tapes, while the games were going on. I do have enough tapes to listen to an entire basketball game and it's more than that. I upload the tapes to Google Drive. I have google drive on my Ipad and Phone. I would listen to the tapes with headphones of course because it's a repetitive racket
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I finally got that monkey off my back...I finally made the video!!
Here are some of my perfect pitch chord naming skills!!!
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Recent articles:
PERFECT PITCH: WHY SOME PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE RARE MUSICAL SKILL POSSESSED BY BACH AND MOZART
Auditory working memory predicts individual differences in absolute pitch learning
I played music in high school with a guy who had perfect pitch. He never had any problem with out-of-tune pianos or guitars, etc. He adapted on the fly and was an incredible keyboard player. I'd ask him about it from time to time, as we'd play at various venues that would supply their own piano or electronic keyboard (the good old days lugging around a Hammond B3 and leslie!) and he'd just shrug and say it was no big deal.
All this stuff about people being "tortured with perfect pitch"...sounds like urban myth mixed with a good helping of drama queen.
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