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I want to make the switch from paper to iPad for gigging but I wanted to get input from the cognoscenti before I start laying down money.
I would welcome any input from working musicians about what I should get/avoid.
Question in general:
1. Preferred screen size and why. (is bigger always better?)
2. iOS version issues? (I notice forScore requires iOS 15 ).
3. What is the best bargain for used iPads IYHO?
4. What "real book" software is a must vs what to ignore?
Thanks ahead of time.
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07-22-2024 10:40 AM
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I'll add my negative two cents as a bandleader:
You look like a bum on stage with a music stand or even worse, the electronic screen. If you haven't memorized the lyrics to the song you don't know the song, and shouldn't be there unless you're just doing pick up gigs or are a new member. I guess if you don't give a shit how you present yourself or you're just a hired gun then you can disregard my input.
I just have a hatred for music stands on stage. Learn the material. Commit it to memory or you'll never have it memorized because you need your cheat sheet constantly or you're D.O.A. I have allowed the use of notes and ipads before when it was a new member or hired gun getting rolling but aside that I would shitcan anyone who insisted on using one after that. No doubt this post will trigger someone but at least i was honest with my thoughts.
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I agree with DawgBone for myself, but the guys in my band can use charts. They have other gigs and we play 1-2 times a month. If they can read the charts I call, that's fine, it means I can change things up regularly without having to rehearse.
It's more accepted in jazz than at a blues gig. If I was playing a blues gig and the singer needed a lyric sheet for Kansas City... I'm with DB, yer feckin fired.
Anyway, the guys in the Big Band I play with have musician tablets, they look to have full page 8.5x11 inch screens. The iPad is smaller than that. Bass player in my group reads charts off his iPhone and the trumpet has an iPad, but I think they aren't even 30 yet, so they still got them young eyes.
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NOPE!
We are not getting sidetracked and talking about your opinion on having an iPad on stage.
We are talking about iPad specs. I dont care if you want in on your stage. I dont work or play with you.
If you want to talk about that start your own thread. Thank you.
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Typical unemployed sideman attitude who thinks he gets to dictate how a bandleader runs the group. You don't get fired for it you just never get any phone calls. Then one bandleader talks to another and it works out to even fewer calls because you are a problem.. Music is mostly about doing gigs and stuff you don't want to do which is why i started my own group so I didn't have to take directives from bandleaders who I found clueless. Sounds like now is the time to form Wazoo and the I-Pad boys and start booking your own gigs that way you can fully appreciate the bossy sidemen out there telling you how to run your group. Good luck bro!!!
Originally Posted by TheGrandWazoo
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i couldn’t afford a decent ipad
so I bought got a cheapo 10” screen android tablet …. (branded amazon)
and purchased the ‘Mobilesheets’ app for it
Mobilesheets opens Pdfs that get sent to you via email etc
and you can write
your own notes on them in text and freehand scribble , highlight things , etc etc
you can create set lists for various gigs
you can export the pdfs to email too
this setup works great for me and was cheap
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i’ve been using it for a couple of years
and haven’t run into any problems or
bottlenecks working with musos with
ipads and other systems
we all use Pdfs
I still use paper occasionally , singers who bring sheets etc but wouldn’t go back to paper
ps I always pack a small usb battery
with lead just in case it runs out of juice
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+1 for a used 10" Android. (I only use mine at home for iReal Pro and Drumgenius and for internet on public transport as I still only have an old flip phone. The one I have now cost 30 EUR, unfortunately I managed to break the display of the one I had before which I got for 15 EUR including a cover.)
The Apple stuff is heavily overpriced in my opinion.
Make sure you get a device that is capable to run an up-to-date enough Android (applies for iOS as well if you insist in Apple) to run the latest versions of the software you want to use. E.g. for the latest Drumgenius you need Android 5 or later or iOS 12 or later. For iReal Pro you need Android 8 or later or iOS 15 or later.
Another thing to consider regarding the OS is that it is up-to-date enough to still receive security updates. Remember that for getting the apps you need to reveal personal information and security is even more an issue if you want to also use the device for things like e-mail. The Wikipedia pages on Android and iOS are where I would look for that information.
This site has the specs for many Android devices, for Apple you can look up the specs here.
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The Amazon Fire OS is a special version of Google's Android operating system. But Amazon AFAIK is even more shady than Google regarding privacy and the number of apps available in their app store is a lot smaller than the one in the Google Play store. It is possible somehow through a trick to install the Google Play store on an Amazon Fire device. (I haven't tried that yet but you can get used Fire devices for very few bucks sometimes.) Originally Posted by pingu
Up-to-date enough to still get security updates is again an important issue.
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Wow. I can't believe the heated response generated by the OP. Almost none of which answered the question. Since I don't gig, I don't have to worry about working for these dudes, as I'd never get or want a job with them.
In jams, I do use an iPad air bought reconditioned from the Apple store. I think it's about 10.5x7.5 size. Not the biggest one. Until recently, I only used it for iReal Pro for chord charts. It is useful practicing at home if you put it into the numbering rather than the traditional chord charts and cycle tunes thru 12 keys. Or if you are jamming with others and don't know the tune but want to chord along. As for lead sheets, you would have to go to pdfs in ForScore. I recently tried out with a band that used this (pdfs in ForScore) and I hated it. I do agree with some comments above that at least for melodies, you need to know the melody of the tune and be able to adjust based on the key the band plays in. I just can't do it on the fly with a lead sheet in front of me even though I read music. I have to have it in my ear. And improvising over chords without knowing the melody???- don't go there.
Hope this helps some.
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Well, sorry if my post came off that way. I did add what I see guys in my band or the big band I play in using. For the big band I use a binder, I like paper. For my band, I feel the band leader should know the tunes since I'm calling the shots. Originally Posted by ewall
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One thing you might need on stage also is something like this. (I got mine used for 20 EUR.) König & Meyer guarantees good and stable "made in Germany" quality and this one can be attached to any mic stand. (Make sure the mic stand is stable enough to hold the weight of the tablet.)
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You can choose a phone, iPad, or small laptop. The first two fit on a music stand. The laptop benefits from something like a projector stand Amazon.com
I prefer the laptop because the footprint of the projector stand is no bigger than a music stand and the laptop is a bit more flexible. I'm using a MacBook Air 13.3" and it's very light and small while offering legibility better than an iPad of phone. Also, I like to have a keyboard and mouse (though the trackpad is quite good when you get used to it) when I'm offline setting up tracks and making arrangements. You can also navigate recording software like Reaper on a small laptop.
On stage a phone is the least obtrusive but can be hard to see. iPad would be middle ground with the 10.2 inch model being easy to see, small and light, and fits easily on a stand. My wife is using a 9th generation and likes it.
Other considerations.. you don't need a lot of memory to run music apps and you don't need the latest processors. However, there is a timer that goes with Apple products and that's how long they will be providing software updates for that model. I would tend towards last years model and wait for a sale to get good value.
In all cases I'm running iReal Pro. It's just backing.. no melody or lyrics so you have to memorize that part. Which, really, you probably want to do in any case. I'll often work from paper at home and iReal on stage.
As for angry old jazz musicians overreacting to tech, I don't blame them. Tech and culture have not been kind to jazz and the older we get, the harder it is to adapt.
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He better have paper backups at least. Or a 2nd I-Pad so when your main Crapple product crashes (which eventually will happen), is lost, or stolen, or has a battery that's toast, you have some recourse. I had a keys player using a macbook for his organ sounds that crashed at a gig. Fortunately he was able to do a reboot it and get it back in working order without too much time gone. In the meantime there went the crowd, and the tips with them. When you gig you better have two of anything critical to getting the job done. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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Chart reading is so light that anything can handle it really. If you mainly read one page charts without much detail a screen size of 10-11 inches (the typical tablet) is fine. But if often reading two pages charts, or things with a lot of details, it's a great luxury to have a 14-15 inch display so you can angle is sideways and see two pages at a time, or just one page but big (and having the luxury to move a bit further if needed also).
Programs would be Mobile Sheets for Android, not sure for Ipad. I would never use something with a subscription. Ireal is also great cause everyone has it, especially for singers gigs.
These days I see more people with tablets than without. Most prefer you email them the charts rather than bring paper copies. For my bands, usually playing 8-10 originals per gig, I just have a couple of printed setlist backups on my gigbag case someone needs them, hardly takes any space.
For me it was really worth it going to a tablet. I have all my setlists ready for more than a dozen bands and projects, can revisit a gig in a second, don't need to move paper clips between each song if it's an outdoor windy gig, etc..
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I'm still on paper, or IRealpro on my phone. But, I'm thinking about making the move.
If everything I was doing was on one or two pages, I'd make the move to tablet. But, a lot of the music I play is on three or four pages (my upper limit for gigs, although I have some longer charts we play in the bandroom). And, the segnos aren't always at the top left. So, people get the foot pedal, but I already have a pedalboard and I play with my foot on the volume pedal. I don't want to have to think about another pedal, and especially not to have to use it to search for a sign on the middle of page 2 or 3.
So, people recommend unrolling all the charts and I know a guy who has done that for hundreds of charts. I can't imagine how long it took. You have to start with paper, get the info into electronic form, proof it all very carefully, and then try it out in the bandroom to make sure you've wrung out all the errors. And, it's going to be harder to make roadmap changes on the fly.
As far as memorizing everything, fine if you can do it. If you're playing only standards gigs with standard arrangements it should work. OTOH, I play in several bands. My weekly big band's book has more than 500 charts. My band book has about 250. The other bands add up to another 150 or so.
These bands gig, but the set lists aren't always available in advance. Maybe a few days, but I don't have copies of all the band books. Either I'm reading or I need to get involved in something other than music. No way I can memorize even a fraction.
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I've bought several of the cheapest iPads I could find here - https://www.woot.com/category/comput..._cnt_cdet_pc_6
For apps, I use igigbook iGigBook (i Gig Book) App for iPad - The Go-To Gig Tool. Jul 22, 2024 and forscore.
For original music projects and more rock or country bands I would never use an iPad, but for jazz gigs someone could call some obscure tune in a non-original key and I can have the chart up and transposed in like 20 seconds.
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What do you mean by "unrolling"? Typing it into a notation software? Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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I carry a 10” Kindle Fire HD that I got for $70 on Prime Day last year. It’s the 3rd Kindle I’ve used for music since they came out. Setting them up to load the Play Store and standard Android apps is very easy, and most will run fine on it although a few will not install. Originally Posted by Bop Head
I loaded 35 pdf fake books on it plus iReal Pro. Although I know a few thousand tunes well enough to get through them, I can’t possibly remember all the obscure intros, changes, bridges, endings etc. Bridges blend into each other among similar songs, and I owe it to the people with whom and for whom I play to play what they want the way they want it. If that takes a stand on the stage, so be it. I’d rather have it and not need it than screw up behind a vocalist.
Get as much internal memory as you can if you get an iPad or other tablet without a removable microSD card. The Kindle Fire takes one, so I have the fake books on a card. My last Kindles were 8”, and the 10 is much easier to read, especially with longer charts. “Turning” pages while playing (especially solo) is a real pain.
At last Thursday night’s gig, two delightful older women in the audience asked if they could sing a few tunes after my trio’s set. The first tune called was You’ve Changed, which I hadn’t played for several years. Without the chart, I’d have provided a bland, cautious backing. Each of them called great old tunes that are rarely played these days, and I’m thankful that I had my tablet with me.
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It refers to taking out all the repeat signs and just putting in the necessary bars. So that you're always moving forward in the chart, start to finish. So there's no need to every turn back to a previous page. Every page turn is forward. Originally Posted by Bop Head
If there's a long open (referring to an unknown number of repeats, usually for solos) section that requires more than one page, it won't work, but that's unusual.
So yes, you're putting the chart into notation software. I believe that the software typically has an unroll option. You have to enter it properly so the software correctly identifies the repeats, or so I think.
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You'll probably want to go for the iPad's screen ratio (3:2 IIRC) rather than the 16:9 or 16:10 one used by most Android tablets. The former is good for reading pages of texts, the latter for watching movies.
Asus and Acer had an identical ChromeTab that runs Android <=9 apps just fine, but is not getting any more OS updates. I bought one of those refurbished and have the free version of MobileSheets on it. Or something similar; I use it too rarely for scores. (ChromeTabs have the big advantage that they run a desktop version of the browser, with full support for browser extensions.)
If the device is only to be used to store a pdf score/tab library there is IMHO no urgent need to get the latest security updates and thus a newer, more expensive device. Payment details for Google's play store can be set up on a computer, and you can trigger installs onto your device from there too. Idem for the payment details of the iOS store (which can also use PayPal as the payment method). In other words, you're not obliged to do risky operations on a device with somewhat outdated security.
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Heard about the Crowdstrike "event" a few days ago? Originally Posted by RJVB
I would always put security first. If there is any sort of connection between devices and one of that is not secure there is a risk.
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If you only use a tablet for viewing pdfs on the bandstand and you never connect it to a network with internet access, no security is necessary because hackers, malware etc have no way in. But even if you only connect to the internet infrequently to check your email or search for a score, you’re exposed. It’s a best practice to keep your operating system and all apps up to date. Originally Posted by Bop Head
I also run a VPN on every device with access to the internet. There are good free ones, and many vendors of online storage offer them to their users for very little money.
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I have had a few music chart apps. If I am not mistaken every song has to be “loaded” individually. With good ‘ol Adobe I can search a PDF collection (like the Real Book 1) for a song quite easily. But I can’t make set lists or “collections”.
Am I wrong that each song must be loaded individually into these apps? Am I missing something?
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