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06-16-2021 07:49 AM
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Same as it's always been.
My taste is correct, kids these days listen to garbage. If you enjoyed confirming your bias with me, be sure to like and subscribe.
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If I hear autotune I stop listening.
Only Cher can be Cher.
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Cliff notes -
Originally Posted by Lobomov
There's auto tune used as an effect, heavy auto tune that makes the vocal sound like a synthesizer. Like a vocoder... whatever, good or bad it's subjective.
There's the subtle auto tune used sparingly to just tweak a few off pitch notes in a performance. A time saver to help a weak vocalist (I do this with a similar plugin, waves tune). You probably can't detect this is even being done.
There's the auto tune to help a performer that struggles with pitch like Paula Abdul, you might tune every note but not slammed, doesn't sound as much like an effect but is noticeable if you have experience. Working with tracks with auto-tune helps you know what to listen for.
Whether it's used heavy for the vocoder effect or sparingly where you can't notice it, it's become pretty much the default for a vocal chain. It's everywhere, even on vocalists that don't need it. I'm sure there are some vocalists that insist on not using it. I have a collaborator that has really good pitch, for him I've maybe used it for two notes total over the recordings of a dozen or so songs. If you want to hear tracks not pitch corrected, listen to music recorded before 1997.
In the case of vocalists that don't need it... Perfect has really become the enemy of good (or really good, or perfectly imperfect).
Originally Posted by Stevebol
Olivia Rodrigo is Auto-tuned, I hear it. She probably doesn't need it. You listen to her, right?
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Originally Posted by fep
I do not know who this is. A quick Google shows she is a TV actress. Why would you assume we all listen to her music? Did she sing with Pasquale Grasso?
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Not auto tune, but this came to mind. In the sixties, I spent some time in the studio with a well known vocal group, especially noted for its lead singer's voice. This was when a lot of groups were "The singer and his backups," such as Dion and the Belmonts (wasn't them). The singer and the producer would listen to the backup track and map it out in three sections. Then singer would sing certain parts at pitch. Next, the track would be slowed down, maybe as much as a whole tone difference in pitch, and another vocal part would be recorded, and then repeated with the track sped up. In the end, the singer's vocal range was extended on both ends. I never saw them perform in concert, so I don't know how he fared, maybe in the studio it was to prevent strain on his voice if there were repeated takes, maybe not.
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That was a reply to Stevebol. He listens to her, he seems to stay apprised of the new artists. He is the reason I know who she is. Singer songwriter, I like her. I believe she's had a couple of number 1 hits in the last few months. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
I do not know who this is. A quick Google shows she is a TV actress. Why would you assume we all listen to her music? Did she sing with Pasquale Grasso?
Last edited by fep; 06-18-2021 at 11:32 AM.
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Although I am not a fan of Melodyne or Autotune, I think the use of kick drum and snare as lead instruments in the mix is another problem with "modern" music.
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Dancers like to hear the beat. "Feel" might be a better term. You don't fill dance clubs without it. Originally Posted by DavidKOS
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You are righter than you may reckon... Originally Posted by DavidKOS
Now days the manipulation of the drum kit include auditioning each of the kick drum hits recorded, finding the one that sounds "just right", and then electronically using "copy paste" at the console screen to replace all kicks throughout the song with the perfect one, unfortunately placed perfectly but unnaturally on the beat line marks on the screen.
This makes all the kicks sound slightly early so the song sounds constantly rushed without increasing pace - it is the ubiquitous modern "fashion show music" sound... so yes, it becomes "leading" in the mix both by volume and with respect to the beat.
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I was wandering around the Rio Casino in Vegas years ago and there was a band playing in the atrium. The wide walkway. They were doing typical current 'Top 40' or whatever it's called now.
They switched up and did 'Believe'. Straight rock beat. Stripped down. The male singer sang lower. People stopped dead in their tracks.
Women said yeah! It was great.
The next day I heard that Cher's ex Greg Allman died.Last edited by Stevebol; 06-19-2021 at 01:31 PM.
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You'll never make it in show business until they name an effect after you.
Autotune won't help shitty melodies.
Give up all hope and find another career.
I'm kidding but I only like the Cher Effect when she uses it.
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Of course it’s crap. This generation thinks iTunes is music under their headphones. Get a bleepin turntable and some vinyl then we’ll talk.
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Well.. there is the business stand point. If you're investing big bucks in production, are you really going to let the singer run open loop without at least some auto tune?
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Thanks for mentioning drum replacement. Originally Posted by pauln
You are righter than you may reckon...
Now days the manipulation of the drum kit include auditioning each of the kick drum hits recorded, finding the one that sounds "just right", and then electronically using "copy paste" at the console screen to replace all kicks throughout the song with the perfect one, unfortunately placed perfectly but unnaturally on the beat line marks on the screen.
This makes all the kicks sound slightly early so the song sounds constantly rushed without increasing pace - it is the ubiquitous modern "fashion show music" sound... so yes, it becomes "leading" in the mix both by volume and with respect to the beat.
Perhaps the use of drum machines and MIDI programming in the 80's also had something to do with the trend.
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I was around in the days of classic disco. The drums were loud, sure - so was the whole mix in most clubs - but the other instruments still were not so overpowered as they have been for years now that drum sounds take up so much sonic space in a typical mix. Originally Posted by citizenk74
Dancers like to hear the beat. "Feel" might be a better term. You don't fill dance clubs without it.
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In a lengthy experiment I won't recount, we slid things around until we agreed that the groove was at its best.
Bass, right on the click.
Drums, 17ms ahead (I think the tempo was around 120 bpm).
Comping instruments had a little more leeway but were centered on the click.
Moving the drums to the click made the track sound lifeless. Much further ahead than 17ms made it sound uncomfortably edgy.
I wouldn't bet that 17ms (or whatever that would be in note value) would be optimal for other tunes or players.
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Has anyone watched the video?
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Twenty years ago, a pop star on a downswing took a chance on a brand-new piece of recording software to do the unthinkable: taking her voice, her most recognizable asset, and robotizing it almost beyond recognition.Kermit the Frog is still waiting for royalties
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question is can you stomach any other Autotune songs...
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This is all to the good. The kids will tire of this fakery and turn to jazz.
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Originally Posted by Lobomov
He assumes Stevebol likes her .. why? .. Cause he has said so in another thread
Why do you assume everything is about you?
I thought it was generic. Hard to keep track on private vs public comments on a forum
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Interesting video, V,
For a purist, like myself, this would never be a performance/recording option. I believe in live music--warts and all. However, the most important point Rick states is that you can take a poor vocalist and make them sound good after the "Auto tune" mix. And, they can even use it on a gig. So, what does this say about the potential talent pool now and in the future? How will it change popular music? The proof is in the pudding.
Play live . . . Marinero
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Sorry my mistake lol. Much more fun to respond to the click bait title! What was I thinking???? Originally Posted by Lobomov
LOL ... Why would we do that?
On Facebook I’m a member of a group that’s like a mirror image of this one. Lots of zoomers and millennials pretending to be zoomers taking the piss out of Boomers, and Beato is like the Boomer king, they all hate him for much the same reasons as djg.
none of them watch the vids either lol.
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I did. Frank (fep) obviously did. (Cliffs Notes). Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Beato seems to have more tolerance for AutoTune than several people replying in this thread. He thinks it has its place (-both to help in the studio to fix a few notes in a vocal when time does not permit further takes or the singer's voice is shot, and as a deliberately exaggerated effect, such as Cher's use of it in "Believe.")
He gives a good example of how it can go wrong (in his opinion): the harmony backing vocals in Lenny Kravitz's "Fly Away" are Auto-Tuned and because they are so exactly right, the result sounds thinner than imperfect (but good) backing vocals would sound.
Elton John is noted for his dislike of Auto Tune. (And lip-syncing "live.")
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