Notation question about a hold and let ring

[rpjazzguitar]

Notation question. Any help would be appreciated.

The situation is that in the 4th quarter note of bar 6 of a tune the band (including the drummer) hits a chord and melody note -- and holds them until the last quarter note of bar 8. Just the ringing of the notes. No drums. That last quarter note feels like a pickup to the next 8 bars of the tune.

The chart has separate staves for melody and bass, with chord symbols. At the end of bar 6, the bass note and melody tie each tie to a whole note in bar 7 and a dotted half in bar 8. I inserted "tutti: let ring" in between the two staffs of bar 7.

Another player suggested that it would be better to tie to a rest in bars 7 and 8. And I could omit the text "Tutti let ring". But, that's not something I can recall seeing. Tie across a bar line to a rest? I think players might be confused by it.

It is not covered in my text on music notation by Feist.

Is there a standard way to do this?

[Jimmy blue note]

If you end a measure with a rest, any duration following can be indicated by whole rests or the "H bar rest" which indicates how many measures are silent, right?

So the value of the measures is read and felt, the length of the silence can be indicated and because rests are felt as space between played notes, they are automatically tied.
Or am I missing something? Sorry if you're asking something I don't get here.

[bako]

Sustained sounds are indicated with values that match the specific duration desired.
Each instrument has it’s limitations of duration, guitars/drums decay, bowed strings run out of bow, winds run out of breath.
So depending on tempo your duration seems achievable. As you described, when duration crosses over a bar line ties are used as needed. Your added instruction might be unnecessary, but precautionary text (within reason) can confirm action requested.

I sometimes tie to rests when the rhythm section is freely but I want to indicate a specific anticipation. Your version far better indicates the result you are seeking in my opinion.

[rpjazzguitar]

Sustained sounds are indicated with values that match the specific duration desired.
Each instrument has it’s limitations of duration, guitars/drums decay, bowed strings run out of bow, winds run out of breath.
So depending on tempo your duration seems achievable. As you described, when duration crosses over a bar line ties are used as needed. Your added instruction might be unnecessary, but precautionary text (within reason) can confirm action requested.

I sometimes tie to rests when the rhythm section is freely but I want to indicate a specific anticipation. Your version far better indicates the result you are seeking in my opinion.

Thanks for this. I have since learned (there's a notation discussion forum) that tying to rests is a thing, even though Musescore makes it a little tricky. It does indicate that the sound is to be held -- which is pretty much "let ring". But, the damping of the ringing is left to the choice of the player. Whereas, if you actually put in the tied notes, the player doesn't have that choice. He follows the notes.

In my situation, the main thing is to make sure that the drummer realizes that he should stop too. "Tutti: let ring" makes this clear.

With just the melody and bass line tied to rests, I'm relying on the drummer to interpret that as "let ring" and not to play time through the two bars when everybody else is letting it ring. The player who suggested tied-to-rests trusts the drummer to understand that he should stop and let ring, but I'm not so sure that most drummers would interpret it that way. Rather, I think that some would ask whether they should play time or stop and let ring. I think it would be a reasonable question. And, to avoid the drummer feeling the need to ask, I think my solution is better.

I didn't recall seeing it before and I'd never studied it, so I was reluctant to rely on it. I could have convinced myself it was a typo. After all, if you want a note to sound, why have a rest in the chart?

Anyway, thanks for helping out.

[emanresu]

"let ring" - I have seen this message but also you can just add the tie symbol..line.. without tieing to another note. It can stretch over the next bar - you can have a rest in the next bar if you want.
Dunno if thats the standard but I'have seen this and used it such way. Sadly, can't remember a good example and it is too late for browsing.

[rpjazzguitar]

"let ring" - I have seen this message but also you can just add the tie symbol..line.. without tieing to another note. It can stretch over the next bar - you can have a rest in the next bar if you want.
Dunno if thats the standard but I'have seen this and used it such way. Sadly, can't remember a good example and it is too late for browsing.

Thanks. What do you think the drummer will do if he sees this tie-to-rest in both the melody and bass staves?

Is he going to know that he's supposed to stop?

[ccroft]

Getting drummers to stop can be problematic in my experience. Interested to see if you can find something that works, short of violence. :-)

[ragman1]

Why don't you just write in 'Hold, let ring...' or whatever it is? As long as it's clear does it matter? Tutti Frutti? Forget that!

[emanresu]

Thanks. What do you think the drummer will do if he sees this tie-to-rest in both the melody and bass staves?

Is he going to know that he's supposed to stop?

If I was a drummer, I'd let the ride ring and stop all else. But I aint one, so dunno really

[rpjazzguitar]

If I was a drummer, I'd let the ride ring and stop all else. But I aint one, so dunno really

According to the advocate of tie-to-rest, that's exactly what would happen.

Adding "tutti: let ring" makes it completely unambiguous, it seems to me.

It's not a notation class final exam. It's some guys on a bandstand.

[ragman1]

I think somebody else should have this job, rp. Somebody who can just write the bloody music out and give it to them. Who isn't worried about whether players 'like it' or not. Who doesn't use Italian words when English would do and who, when he's unsure of what to do, just looks it up somewhere.

Just do it. Give them their own copies so they can scribble their own notes on them. It's that simple. Anybody would think you're scoring for the New York Philharmonic.

[Bobby Timmons]

Sick em rag.