Transcriging entire solos then moving on to the next one?

[AllanAllen]

Most of the great players I know have copied solos. Some write them down. Some do it regularly.

Most have, but not all. I know some terrific players who will admit that they don't transcribe much, if at all, and they don't practice with a metronome (one recommends it to others, but doesn't do it himself).

But, to make it clear, most great players I know have transcribed a lot and are good at it.

I've never enjoyed transcription, mostly because I'm not good at it. The usual advice is, do more of it, and you'll get better. That might require self-discipline <g>.

When I try I often get stuck on trying to figure out an unusual sounding chord in a recording that kind of murky and it can be frustrating. Melody is much easier. Hear a few notes, sing them and then find them on the guitar.

I think the conventional wisdom is that there's no advantage to not-transcribing. It seems to me that not-transcribing just might force a player to find his own vocabulary, which could contribute to the development of an individual style. The conventional wisdom differs - most suggest that transcribing eventually leads to an individual style, presumably with more breadth melodically and harmonically.

I also wonder if copying solos with one's voice and not the guitar would work. For that matter, why not imitate Frank Sinatra's or Nat Cole's or Tony Bennett's phrasing by singing along?

My copying is limited to fragments that catch my ear. I've read through transcriptions done by others more than I've transcribed myself -- by a wide margin. But, neither transcribing myself nor reading transcriptions is likely to get something new into my playing. Rather, for some reason, it has been more effective when I'm sitting next to a player who does something ear-catching and I can see how he did it. For some reason, that stuff is much more likely to stick. Just about every lick I use (both of them) came to me that way.

So, how do you feel about your solo lines?

[Christian Miller]

The person who recommended the solo to me also emphasised the rhythm. I'm aware that Prez is working in more of a swing idiom & so is following the changes less than one would find in bop.

I suspect that internalising good swinging rhythms might be the main benefit of learning solos (before perhaps stealing licks, etc.)

You’ll do fine!


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[rpjazzguitar]

So, how do you feel about your solo lines?

You can hear a recent gig in the Showcase section. I attached another track to this post.

The best thing I'll say about my soloing is that my comping is worse.

But, I flatter myself to think that I have a recognizable style. Not that I'm satisfied with it. There are sounds I can sort of imagine, but which I can't quite grasp.

The style emerges, as styles sometimes do, as much from what I can't do as from what I can do. I can't play fast, I don't know many licks, I can't quite hear a lot of more outside sounds that I like when others play them. What I can do is get a tone I'm happy with, create some drama with ascending lines and, I'd like to think, communicate some emotion.

[pamosmusic]

The person who recommended the solo to me also emphasised the rhythm. I'm aware that Prez is working in more of a swing idiom & so is following the changes less than one would find in bop.

I suspect that internalising good swinging rhythms might be the main benefit of learning solos (before perhaps stealing licks, etc.)

It’s really quite a nice experience. I spent a couple months transcribing five or six Grant Green solos and played with a few licks but mostly just learned them and moved on and after a few months I just kind of noticed some things in my playing …. More space, went to blues stuff a little more and used it better, etc.

I bet after some quality time with Lester Young you’ll start noticing some stuff in your playing. What will you notice? No idea, but that’s a good chunk of the fun.

[pauln]

So, it's all trans and no scribe...

That right there describes some of the best methods for learning to play jazz because it reflects the reality of performing with others in real time (but you'll want to include "transing the chords" as soon as you're able, too)!

[Bobby Timmons]

So it's all trans and no scribe..

[AllanAllen]

You can hear a recent gig in the Showcase section. I attached another track to this post.

The best thing I'll say about my soloing is that my comping is worse.

But, I flatter myself to think that I have a recognizable style. Not that I'm satisfied with it. There are sounds I can sort of imagine, but which I can't quite grasp.

The style emerges, as styles sometimes do, as much from what I can't do as from what I can do. I can't play fast, I don't know many licks, I can't quite hear a lot of more outside sounds that I like when others play them. What I can do is get a tone I'm happy with, create some drama with ascending lines and, I'd like to think, communicate some emotion.

Oh yeah, I remember hearing this. I think you sound good. My point in asking was to say, you could work on the shortcoming you feel you have by transcribing.

[rpjazzguitar]

Oh yeah, I remember hearing this. I think you sound good. My point in asking was to say, you could work on the shortcoming you feel you have by transcribing.

I agree with that. Ideally I should spend more time finding clips I like and then figuring them out. But, for me, that's like going to a job I don't like. Since there's plenty to work on that feels more natural, that's what I end up doing.

Another thing that happens is sometimes I can figure out the harmony and the solo and I get to the point where I can say, "okay it's this, he's using melodic minor a half step over the dominant" (or whatever) but it remains hard to generalize it to a new situation. Meaning, the next time I've got that harmonic situation, that knowledge actually hurts the solo by interrupting whatever melodic flow I've got happening.

Key issue is to get it into your ears and under your fingers so that it comes out in the mental scat singing and then onto the guitar. My experience is that, now and then, a sound just speaks to me and I get it effortlessly (like b9 on a dominant) while others are elusive (like #5 on most things) and most outside sounds.

It's all a work in progress.

[Christian Miller]

You have to play it and play it and play it. It can’t be a thing where you have to do mental calculations.

This is the thing it took me a long time to learn. A lot of music is just graft.

I know that’s not the only way to practice and you get stuck in that mode sometimes, but there’s no question learning anything on the instrument requires reps…. As for flexibility in the moment that also exists, but an awful lot of jazz is linking modules together. Not a fashionable thing to say, but very much true of the great players.


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[pamosmusic]

This is the thing it took me a long time to learn. A lot of music is just graft.

Bob Dylan Love & Theft - YouTube