Analyzing

[jumpnblues]

I'm a jazz guitar novice and I'm having difficulty with the concept of analyzing a piece of music/chord. What is it that I'm analyzing? And, why? Analyzing 1 6 2 5 and 2 5 1 progressions...once more, what am I analyzing? How do I analyze something?

[pamosmusic]

Oooooh.

So looking for key centers and doing harmonic analysis is very useful.

Like in All the Things You Are …

Ab: vi ii V I IV … C: ii V I

That information informs the way you play the changes — what passing notes and neighbor notes you might like with the chords. Of course can help you find scalar passages.

On top of that … when you get a handle on that sort of thing, Christians videos on this are really useful. There are four. Can’t find them all right now:

[pauln]

For a start...

Analysis is part of the process between something you can't do or understand becoming something you can do or understand. You may analyse with music theory, or fingering/picking, or by ear, depending on your purpose. If Jazz may have a hierarchy of analytical organization, the chords and progressions wing of it might look something like this:

- genre
- song
- form (the sections, their sequence, A, ABAB, AABA, etc,)
- chord patterns within form sections (1 6 2 5, 2 5 1, etc.)
- chord type functions in patterns (a big topic of analysis)
- chord type construction (tones, extensions, alterations)
- intervals (number and quality)
- scale degrees
- notes

Analysis is about what distinguishes something from others, and what they have in common. To reduce confusion, first identify the level of the analysis.
The hierarchy is not a gradient of increasing difficulty; some of the upper levels of organization may be more easily grasped than some of the lower levels.

[AllanAllen]

I'm a jazz guitar novice and I'm having difficulty with the concept of analyzing a piece of music/chord. What is it that I'm analyzing? And, why? Analyzing 1 6 2 5 and 2 5 1 progressions...once more, what am I analyzing? How do I analyze something?

+1 for Christians videos. If those go over your head, look for private lessons. It's supposed to simplify songs, if you read a post here and your head is spinning, just disregard the explanation and look elsewhere.

You analyze a song to reduce it from a series of chords into a few chunks.

|Dm7 B7 |Em7 A7|Dm7 G7 |Cmaj7|

becomes "turnaround to a ii V I in C."

[pamosmusic]

+1 for Christians videos. If those go over your head, look for private lessons. It's supposed to simplify songs, if you read a post here and your head is spinning, just disregard the explanation and look elsewhere.

You analyze a song to reduce it from a series of chords into a few chunks.

|Dm7 B7 |Em7 A7|Dm7 G7 |Cmaj7|

becomes "turnaround to a ii V I in C."

Ezzzactly.

You have to kind of learn some theory that might feel complicated at first, but after that literacy part is taken care of, you should be using even the most complex theory to make the song make sense. Christian's videos in that series are all about chunking chord progressions the way that Allan does with the "turnaround" example. But they do assume some theory knowledge.

[jumpnblues]

Oh boy. I think I need to go way back to the beginnings of my guitar playing circa 1961. I've been a rock and blues (and bluegrass) guitar player who plays 99% by ear, but I've also been a jazz guitar wannabe all those years.

So, Peter, when I read your post it just as well be in the Martian language. Don't get me wrong, I greatly appreciate your post. I'm just such a novice I don't even know what to ask. I'm not far enough along in jazz theory to be able to interpret your post. That's not your fault. It's mine.

I've picked up bits and pieces of jazz theory on various websites. Especially this one. I pretty much know the basic jazz chords and arpeggios. I have a superficial knowledge of the CAGED system and the C major scale. That's about it.

I do have a very good instructor. He's patient and very knowledgeable. But I've had a difficult time with the concept of analyzing and the CAGED system. Although I now
seem to have a decent understanding of the CAGED system.

So, I'd welcome any recommendations or suggestions that might help me along. I see my instructor once a week and this week he has me analyzing some songs. However, each time he has me analyzing songs I just sit there with a 1000 yard stare on my face because I'm just not "getting it". I feel so dumb. Next lesson we are going back to step one regarding analyzing. Maybe I'm making more of this than necessary? Thank you in advance for your suggestions.

[pamosmusic]

Oh boy. I think I need to go way back to the beginnings of my guitar playing circa 1961. I've been a rock and blues (and bluegrass) guitar player who plays 99% by ear, but I've also been a jazz guitar wannabe all those years.

So, Peter, when I read your post it just as well be in the Martian language. Don't get me wrong, I greatly appreciate your post. I'm just such a novice I don't even know what to ask. I'm not far enough along in jazz theory to be able to interpret your post. That's not your fault. It's mine.

I've picked up bits and pieces of jazz theory on various websites. Especially this one. I pretty much know the basic jazz chords and arpeggios. I have a superficial knowledge of the CAGED system and the C major scale. That's about it.

I do have a very good instructor. He's patient and very knowledgeable. But I've had a difficult time with the concept of analyzing and the CAGED system. Although I now
seem to have a decent understanding of the CAGED system.

So, I'd welcome any recommendations or suggestions that might help me along. I see my instructor once a week and this week he has me analyzing some songs. However, each time he has me analyzing songs I just sit there with a 1000 yard stare on my face because I'm just not "getting it". I feel so dumb. Next lesson we are going back to step one regarding analyzing. Maybe I'm making more of this than necessary? Thank you in advance for your suggestions.

I don’t think you’re making more of it than necessary.

One thing I will say is that CAGED has nothing to do with any of this. It’s a system for organizing scales on the guitar, but doesn’t have much to do with understanding what’s going on in a tune. To go back to my All the Things example, CAGED is one way to help you find an Ab major scale, but it won’t help you know to look for an Ab major scale in the first place.

Jazz theory isn’t terribly complicated but the price of entry is kind of high.

Really what you need to know are how to build scales, how to build chords, and what chords show up diatonically in the scales. From there you can sort of derive everything else.

It’s just that learning the scales in particular can be sort of annoying. It’s a lot of memorizing, which can be a pain, but it serves as kind of a grammar for everything else.

[AllanAllen]

OP, do you know the Nashville number system?

For example,

Diatonic chords in C
I = C maj7
ii = D-7
iii = E-7
… and so on.

If you don’t know those you won’t get far analyzing.

[pamosmusic]

OP, do you know the Nashville number system?

For example,

Diatonic chords in C
I = C maj7
ii = D-7
iii = E-7
… and so on.

If you don’t know those you won’t get far analyzing.

N.B. Allan is referring to the same thing I was referring to when I mentioned “what chords show up diatonically in scales.”

The numbering system is used all over and you might hear it also called “diatonic chords” or if you’re talking to a real dork “harmonic analysis.”

[Christian Miller]

Oooooh.

So looking for key centers and doing harmonic analysis is very useful.

Like in All the Things You Are …

Ab: vi ii V I IV … C: ii V I

That information informs the way you play the changes — what passing notes and neighbor notes you might like with the chords. Of course can help you find scalar passages.

On top of that … when you get a handle on that sort of thing, Christians videos on this are really useful. There are four. Can’t find them all right now:

There’s a playlist but I’m not sure if the link works

Analysing standards progressions - YouTube


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pamosmusic]

There’s a playlist but I’m not sure if the link works

Analysing standards progressions - YouTube


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I could’ve worked harder and posted the whole thing, but I figured you’d be along soon enough and save me the effort .

[AllanAllen]

N.B. Allan is referring to the same thing I was referring to when I mentioned “what chords show up diatonically in scales.”

The numbering system is used all over and you might hear it also called “diatonic chords” or if you’re talking to a real dork “harmonic analysis.”

His reply had me wonder how much he knew. It seemed like the numbers went over is head. I guess I’ve forgotten what I didn’t know.

I’ve heard the number stuff is hard to grasp in isolation. I learned by joining a band and they discussed songs using the system, so it was sink or swim. It was all rock and roll oldies, but still a I VI ii V is a I VI ii V.

[jameslovestal]

Oooooh.

So looking for key centers and doing harmonic analysis is very useful.

Like in All the Things You Are …

Ab: vi ii V I IV … C: ii V I

That information informs the way you play the changes — what passing notes and neighbor notes you might like with the chords. Of course can help you find scalar passages.

On top of that … when you get a handle on that sort of thing, Christians videos on this are really useful. There are four. Can’t find them all right now:

When I first saw "Christians videos" and that lady, I wondered what it was about Christian music videos that had to do with the topic.

I do wonder how it came about someone told the OP to analyze chord progressions, without tell them about the many useful reasons for doing so (like what you list above).

[Bop Head]

OP, do you know the Nashville number system?

For example,

Diatonic chords in C
I = C maj7
ii = D-7
iii = E-7
… and so on.

If you don’t know those you won’t get far analyzing.

The Nashville Number System uses Arabic numerals not Roman.

[alltunes]

I'm a jazz guitar novice and I'm having difficulty with the concept of analyzing a piece of music/chord. What is it that I'm analyzing? And, why? Analyzing 1 6 2 5 and 2 5 1 progressions...once more, what am I analyzing? How do I analyze something?

You are analyzing how various chord progressions (patterns) lead to target chords in the song. So it helps to identify what those target chords are and what led up to them. Seeing the patterns makes learning standards easier.

See sheet music to Autumn Leaves…an often suggested first tune for good reason.

Can you see any patterns on this piece of sheet music? First take note that it is in the key of G or Em (same thing). So do we see any target chords like a G or an Em. Ok what precedes those target chords?

Am7 to D7 to G is a “two-five-one” in the key of G. See any more?

[pamosmusic]

His reply had me wonder how much he knew. It seemed like the numbers went over is head. I guess I’ve forgotten what I didn’t know.

I’ve heard the number stuff is hard to grasp in isolation. I learned by joining a band and they discussed songs using the system, so it was sink or swim. It was all rock and roll oldies, but still a I VI ii V is a I VI ii V.

Oh I wasn’t correcting you, just noting that he might see the same content described in different terms on a jazz site.

[AllanAllen]

The Nashville Number System uses Arabic numerals not Roman.

There’s a lot of conflicting information about the number system. Since it’s a shorthand thing, people do both. I prefer Roman numerals with capital for major and lower case for minor. Makes things clearer if it’s say, vi or VI7.

Like I said, I learned it in a band, not out of a book.

[Bobby Timmons]

Analysis generally means a harmonic analysis where you analyze what key the song is in overall, if there are any key changes, what the different chords in the song do individually or the flow of them etc. like what alltunes said.

Although you can theoretically analyze a tune from any perspective like what pauln said. You can analyze it melodically, what different devices the melodies use. You can analyze the rhythm of it etc.

I recommend chatting with chat gpt. It sounds like you don't understand the whole process at all. The benefit of this is you can have a conversation with him and sort out a series of questions in a short time instead of getting a bunch of different answers from the forum and then replying (or not) over a series of days.

[pauln]

The numbering system is used all over and you might hear it also called “diatonic chords” or if you’re talking to a real dork “harmonic analysis.”

We dorks prefer "harmonization of the scale"

[pamosmusic]

I recommend chatting with chat gpt.

sigh

[Bobby Timmons]

^ Gonna have to add that to the growing list of things you guys are mad at. Mad at theory, mad at tonewood, mad at JC, mad at the bot. Jeez. Wtf is wrong with that advice?

[starjasmine]

OP, by now you have discovered the difficulty of trying to figure out the bigger picture by piecing together short tidbits from an Internet forum. So I'ma do you a solid: take a harmony class at your local community college. It should be relatively cheap and you will learn an organized presentation of WHY some things "sound good" and why things that "sound bad" don't work. Plan to invest a good two years of serious study to get the basics down. This isn't super-hard, but it is a fair amount of information to take in, and you need to develop the ability to utilize the information in real time, not just memorize a bunch of terms that are not meaningful to you.

For example, when I say "apple" you can probably picture an apple and remember what it tastes like. Similarly, when someone says "major seventh chord" you should instantly recall an overall sonority along with an understanding of the notes that create that sonority. Another example: someone serves you some food while you are blindfolded. You eat some of it and the taste and texture tells you instantly that it contains apples. Similarly, after sufficient study of harmony, you can identify the chords, melody, bass line, and other characteristics of any music that you hear; ideally, well enough to play it back or write it down. Of course, a lot of work goes into developing your musical skill set to this degree, but it's not impossible. You can probably already do a certain amount of "playing by ear" now. Studying harmony will give you a unified model that lets you understand what you hear, understand why it works (or does not work), and play what you hear - especially in the case where you hear something "in your mind's ear" and want to express it on your instrument, which is what jazz improvisation is all about.

The instructor of your harmony class should teach EVERY theoretical construct with an example in sound. That way, the class becomes a way of connecting what you hear to a mental model that give you ways to fit it into a bigger picture, and ways to talk about what you hear (whether in conversation with other musicians or on paper; i.e. written music notation.) If the teacher is not playing a LOT of musical examples as they teach, find another class and another teacher.

If you can't hear it, you can't understand it. Period. That's why finding an instructor who PLAYS every example in the harmony book to you is SO important. Otherwise, it's like that old joke where the kid says "Today I learned that two and two is four! What's a two?"

Similarly the concepts that you will learn in your harmony class MUST mean something to you IN SOUND or you will have no hope of internalizing the info in any sort of useful way.

The above is exactly how I learned. I played by ear for about 8 years before taking any formal instruction. I lucked out and had a GREAT two-year harmony block in a community college. It wasn't like a light went on, it was like the Sun came up.

HTH

SJ

[pamosmusic]

^ Gonna have to add that to the growing list of things you guys are mad at. Mad at theory, mad at tonewood, mad at JC, mad at the bot. Jeez. Wtf is wrong with that advice?

the bot doesn’t answer music theory questions well.

(yes I’ve tried)

[Bobby Timmons]

Oh really. I wouldn't want to learn music from it. My suggestion is that it's good for hashing things out quickly with because it gives you thorough answers and you can keep asking questions and clear up the cloudyness. Since the op has no idea what anything is, he could ask questions relevant to him, then continue asking until he gets a sense of what's going on. Then approach the problem by finding legitimate learning material somewhere else.

[pamosmusic]

Here's my rec:

musictheory.net - Lessons

EDIT: my problem with the Chat GPT answer is that there are actual decent resources on the internet if one takes the time to recommend them.