-
Hi All,
I have lurking around and have been going up and down all the forum...great stuffs!
OK, I want to learn Jazz. On the way. Got all my materials. All recommendation from this great site.
I also have 10 guitars, mostly customs acoustics, steel and nylon. And Line 6s and Godins. So as you can tell, all flat-tops. I am pretty much a half-"indecent" figurestyle player, tired of learning new songs all the time and forgetting the old. So. Enter Jazz guitar. Whoohoo! I AM excited!
But seriously folks, do I need another guitar just to play jazz guitar? An archtop, they tell me.
Really, why? What's the motivation?
But I must say... I see the Ibanez's, Samicks, Gibsons and Hofners...they are looking mighty fine...
So why, I must ask, my fellow revered Jazz-masters here...or I should say, should I?
later,
Joshua
-
12-30-2008 04:06 AM
-
Hey Joshua and welcome to the board!
Everyone here is really friendly, so even if you have a question you might think is stupid it will get an answer, probably a better one that you even expected!
Anyway, the answer to your question is no, you do not need an archtop to play jazz. Although many people who play jazz end up playing an archtop or some form of semi-hollow body guitar, to begin with it really doesn't matter what you play, I mean they all have six strings right?
I think jazz musicians play archtops for two reasons,
1) because many of the guitarists they want to play like play archtops and
2) the archtop tends to give a 'jazzyer' sound, or a stronger, warmer sound to a clean toned guitar.
I learned, played and even auditioned for university all on a $400 starter model strat, so don't think you need anything other than an electric guitar to play jazz. I know a guy that plays awesome jazz on an Ibanez 7 string. One of my jazz teachers plays jazz on a classical guitar with his fingers.
In short, If you want an archtop, buy one, but don't feel that you need to buy anything to play this music. The only thing that matters after all is what you play, not what you play on.
-
Hi Tal, thanks for your feedback, I appreciate it very much!
Sorry, I hope that it didn't come across as a stupid question because I really wanted to know...can you believe it, after all these years of playing, I have not really felt how an archtop would feel like simply because I didn't care about it! Man, talk about being a a shell, that's I think is really...well, I am learning.
So, time to go out and get some jazz comping done...and maybe, check out an archtop or two...who knows, heehee! But my wife is gonna hate me again...
later,
-
First post - I just joined the forum. I like archtops - I just got a nice Christmas gift of a 1939 Epiphone Zephyr. But jazz is a state of mind more than anything else. It's a place for ideas to come from, an attitude, it's not an instrument. You can play jazz on anything. With that said, as you find your sound you may discover that you can get it on a guitar you have, or that an archtop gets it for you. But one of my most influential players did his work on a Fender Telecaster...
Cheers, Brian
-
Hey Brian, that's one major Christmas present. I had a 43 Emperor but sold it because the 18" size was just too big for me. Good luck on a great present.
Hey Joshua. You definitely do not need to get a new guitar to play jazz. Jazz is only a musical style just like rock or classical. It's the same thing if someone said in order to play Bach you would strictly need a harpsicord. I haven't seen too many harpsicords for sale lately so I guess a piano will do just fine. I think what happens is we get too tied up in labels and then a lot of uneducated folks follow suit without even thinking. They say "you can't play jazz on a solid body, it's only for rock" or "Who would ever play jazz on a classical guitar?" Just think of Charlie Byrd, Kenny Burrell and Johnny Smith. I've heard jazz played on all kinds of guitars including Strats and Les Pauls. I play archtops primarily because I love the way they look compared to flattops. It's strictly a personal preference. When I was a young teenager (during the last ice age) a good friend of mine was taking guitar lessons and he owned an acoustic Harmony archtop. I fell in love with that guitar and have always wanted one just like it. When I earned a good salary years later, I went and bought an archtop of my own. It brought back a lot of memories. Hope this helps.
-
Honestly you can play whatever guitar you want but I think that having higher fret access is important so a non cutaway might not be the best choice. You might want to try one of your nylon strings, they have a nice sound for jazz. The main reason so many people use archtops is for the sound. I agree though that I love the look of an archtop as well.
With all that said it sounds like you don't have an electric and most jazz guitar is ampified. It might be a good excuse to buy a archtop
-
Hey Hot Ford,
Originally Posted by hot ford coupe
You piqqed my curiosity on the 18" size thingy...how does that figure in the size of an archtop? In normal acoustics, we have standard sizes that are more of names like OM, Parlor, Jumbo etc. So what are the sizes of archtop offerings? Where does the measurement figure from in the instrument?
Thanks again!
later,
-
Rio! Originally Posted by rio
With all that said it sounds like you don't have an electric and most jazz guitar is ampified. It might be a good excuse to buy a archtop
Most of my acoustics and nylons are rigged with pickups. But that does not stop me from finding other excuses to get me one of 'em fine archtops now....uh oh!
Oh gosh, the G.A.S. in me is coming on again! Now I really wished I had an archtop for a Christmas present!
later,
-
Whhen I said amplified I should have been more specific, something with a normal electric pickup (magnetic) rather than a piezo or whatever is on acoustic pickups. The tone is pretty different between the two and an electric pickup does make one play differently than an acoustic pickup. I might as well fan the GAS flames
Oh and this would include both floating pickups (suspended above the body) and set-in or mounted pickups (like you see on most electric guitars). I would say the exception might be your nylon strings...though that might be my own preference sliding in here I think an amplified nylon string is very well suited for jazz.
Regarding sizes you measure the lower bout to find the size and it is usually either 16 or 17 inches. There are 15" which are on the smaller side and 18" which is on the larger size but 16 and 17 inches are sort of the "standards". The depth is something else also, that can vary.
-
10 guitars! That's a good arsenal!
About the sound of jazz; I think it's good to know which guitarrists sounds you prefer. Then you can check their guitars and equipment from jazz books or through the internet.
Don't worry if you think you make stupid questions, possibly my answer is so as well!
-
Claudi...good input! Got me thinking again...I realized I am quite partial towards the Gibson of Lee Ritenour...and of course, Metheny's jazzbox, though I am not sure what he uses...think it's an Ibanez. But gosh, I also like Earl Klugh's Paul McGill classical.... Originally Posted by Claudi
It's futile. As the Lord Vader once said, "Resistance is Futile...." Cross over to the dark side...get a JazzBox! The flames of G.A.S is burning me again...RIO...you are no help!!
later,
Joshua
-
Rio is right about the measurements. The upper bout is usually in proportion to the lower bout. The theory behind the size of the body is that the bigger the body, the louder the archtop and the more it carries in a big band setting. The average archtop like an L5, Epiphone Deluxe or D'Angelico Excel is 17" wide. The D'Angelico New Yorker, the Gibson Super 400 and the Epiphone Emperor are 18" wide. The biggest Archtop made was the Stromberg Master 400. The lower bout was 19" wide and the guitars were loud and deep. Of all the guitars I played, the 17" wide guitar is the most comfortable for me. The Emperor made my arm hurt because I had to keep it too high to get where I wanted.
-
siewnengtan:
Do yourself a big favor and find a copy of Paul Desmonds' "Pure Desmond" CD. Listen carefully, the tasty jazz guitarist is Ed Bickert playing really great jazz on his Fender telecaster.
wiz
-
I was getting a decent jazz tone out of a stratocaster with a rosewood neck, set on the front pickup.
I grew up with a guy that got jazz (ala Tony Matola) from a Fender Jaguar.
FWIW
johnLast edited by John Curran; 12-31-2008 at 09:47 PM.
-
Buddy Merrill used to play for Lawrence Welk. He played on Strats and Jags. That's as far away from rock as you can get.
-
i do 95% of my amplified jazz work on fender telecasters.
so to answer your question, no.
-
I always say play the guitar that feels and sounds good to you...this also helps you develop "your" sound..and that is good...be yourself in what you play and play on...
time on the instrument..pierre...
-
Ed Bickert with a telecaster.
Beautiful.
-
O yea. There are certain sounds you probably can't get out of a solid body. Early Wes and the Pizzarelli kind of almost acoustic tone. But as far as that warm classic jazz tone like Tal or Jim Hall or Herb Ellis - a solid body will do just fine if you tweak the tone on the amp just so. Yea there's always been that archtop bias in jazz but Ed Bickert really turns it on it ear. Just make sure you have something with a nice comfortable neck and a good action. The piece of equipment I haven't really seen anyone get around (for straight-ahead jazz that is) is flat-wound strings. Everyone I know that plays jazz no matter what kind of guitar they play, uses flatwound strings. Heck - that might even be just because I don't know the right people. Someone back there said that jazz is a state of mind and that really hits the nail on the head.
-
What a great video. I'd love to be able to really see some of his voicings a little better. When he plays, there's a slight dissonance that rings out and makes a great sound. He's the man.
-
Awesome video! If it wasn't for it, I could have sworned that Ed was NOT playing on a telecaster....can't believe the tone that came out of that thingamagic!
later,
-
lots of close, piano like clusters. ed's the man. Originally Posted by hot ford coupe
ed's not the reason i play a telecaster (i had one before i ever considered playing jazz!) but he's probably the reason i never lusted over archtops that were 1,000's of dollars out of my budget. i figured, the tone's in there somewhere...and if you've heard me play, you know who i want to be like when i grow up!
-
Which begets the question Mr. Beaumont, the telecaster would be a regular electric with electric strings. Hence, it would be softer on the fingers and definitely lower action. Say somebody hands you an archtop...would it not that after just a short while, your fingers would fatigue in a major way, after all, I hear that these archies are very high-actioned and 'em strings are hard! Even more than my regular acoustics...that true? Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
later,
-
Hey siewmengtan. The answer to your question is sort of true and sort of false. Alot of it depends on what kind of jazz you're playing on that archtop and whether or not you use it acoustically or have a floating pickup or top mounted pickup. If you're playing like Freddie Green in a big band, You're usually going to use the archtop acoustically. In that case, you'd need heavy strings and a high action to get the loudness and cutting power you need. You've really got to have that top vibrating like crazy and low action and thin strings can't do that well. If you take a look at Freddie Green's setup, you'd swear his guitar was busted. The action is high enough to slice cheese.
If you're using a top mounted pickup, you're much less likely to use the guitar strictly acoustically. You're going to rely more on your pickup for your tone and volume. In that setting, you can get the string size and action where it is a lot more comfortable. If you like a floating pickup, you have a choice here. The top will still be active so you can use it accoustically or rely completely on the pickup or both if you so choose. That's how I use the archtop. I use a thicker string but my action is lower, although not as low as some have. That way, I can get a more woody tone without killing my left hand. If I find that I fatigue easily, I lower the action until I can't lower it anymore because of fret buzzing and then adjust to feel. I also play fingerstyle so I don't hit the strings as hard and get less buzz at a particular setup. As my hand gets stronger, I pick up the action a bit until I can play a 4 hour gig without cramping. Hope this helps.
-
nah, i do have a cheap archtop, and i've got nice low action on there. like hotford said, freddie greene favored high action, but just about any jazz player who's taking leads wants low action and an easy player! Originally Posted by siewmengtan
oh, and i use the same strings on my tele as i do on an archtop--heavy flatwounds.
just for fun, here's a link to some stuff i recorded--one tune is an archtop--i won't tell you which--everything else is a tele...see if you can guess...
www.ezfolk.com/audio/bands/1011/music.php
Reply With Quote
Transcriber wanted
Today, 04:35 PM in Improvisation