Need Advice choosing a jazz guitar course

**cris1xy** · 02-26-2021, 04:45 PM

Hey Guys and Gals

So I've been playing guitar a little bit but lacked the direction. I recently started exploring jazz and been trying to learn but a lot of stuff out there has no structure and I don't know where to go next. I did my due diligence and narrowed a lot of the stuff online to just a few. I need recommendations if anyone has tried these and where I should start. I don't mind going through them all in a logical sequence. I don't mind starting simple to build a solid foundation. Ultimately I want to comp and play over changes. The cost is not really an issue once its worth it. The goal is to transition from self taught to getting a teacher when I have a little more under my belt.
Here are my options and any other suggestions are more than welcome.

Jazz Guitar Roadmap - Jens Larson

The Jazz Guitar Roadmap

Bebop Guitar - Richie Zellon
Home | Bebop Guitar Improv Series

Jimmy Bruno Guitar Workshop
Learn Jazz Guitar | Jimmy Bruno Guitar Workshop

Looking forward to every response!

**marcwhy** · 02-27-2021, 10:23 AM

Hey Cris -- welcome!

Some good programs ... Why "wait," though, to get a teacher?? Find a good one in your area; if none, I recommend Pete Sklaroff (a member here) -- he teaches online, and he's excellent for students of any level!

And have fun!

Marc

**TOMMO** · 02-27-2021, 10:59 AM

If you can't or don't want to get a teacher yet then apart from the (free) material on this site I'd recommend a subscription of Frank Vignola's Jazz Studio on Truefire. It's currently $ 10.00 / month I think and there's new material added constantly. Material covers basics and up to more advanced stuff and Frank is always available for questions and requests. Good luck!

**cris1xy** · 02-27-2021, 11:02 AM

Thanks Marc. I feel I can get more from a teacher when I actually have a little more mastery of certain things. Still trying to get my arpeggios down for example and some things I think I should know so I can follow along with a teacher and make the most of that experience. But hey maybe I'll give it a go sooner than planned. I'll also check out Pete's website and definitely consider him thanks for the suggestion

**cris1xy** · 02-27-2021, 11:12 AM

Just checked it out. It's 19.95 and you get 2 weekly zoom classes and close to 1500 videos? That sounds good definitely worth checking out.

Correction: The first tier is 10.00 with no private or zoom classes but still looks worth it

**Donplaysguitar** · 02-27-2021, 11:40 AM

ArtistWorks. Dave Stryker. You may want to use different fingerings than Dave, but otherwise a solid course. You can get frequent feedback, infreqent feedback, or none at all.

**cris1xy** · 02-27-2021, 12:03 PM

Thanks Don. I've seen the Artistworks with Dave, Chuck or Martin but didn't consider it for long-term. I can take a second look. What do you like about it if you don't mind me asking? I'm also curious about using different fingerings than he uses. Tell me about that if you don't mind.

**CockeyedOptimist** · 02-27-2021, 12:06 PM

I'm new to jazz but have some experience with classical style. I've been on Richie Zellon's course for about 4 months now. I like the course because it is very well organized, clearly explained, and quite thorough. The material introduced builds on what came before and the difficulty is gradual. One aspect that I like about the course is that he gets you to write etudes. As you progress through the modules/chapters and new devices (embellishments and approaches) are introduced you are encouraged to write out etudes to include the new concepts along with the old. Templates are provided with varying degree of constrains which helps me because when the possibilities are endless, I get paralyzed.

The first volume mostly only focuses on single line playing - no comping. Throughout the first volume, Richie stays within the blues progression adding more chords that are found in jazz blues as the course progresses. Volume 1 culminates with Bird's blue.

I learned about Richie's course from this forum. Other members here that have more experience may give a more detailed perspective.

EDIT: here's the link to Richie's course discussion thread
Found the best bebop online jazz improv course to date

**cris1xy** · 02-27-2021, 12:20 PM

Thanks Optimist that helps a lot. I like Richie Zellon's playing and I can tell the site is well laid out. From looking at the site I just don't see a lot of comping. I definitely need to work on that but the single note stuff look awesome so I am having a hard time deciding but I'm getting some good direction here so I appreciate it

**Donplaysguitar** · 02-27-2021, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by cris1xy

Thanks Don. I've seen the Artistworks with Dave, Chuck or Martin but didn't consider it for long-term. I can take a second look. What do you like about it if you don't mind me asking? I'm also curious about using different fingerings than he uses. Tell me about that if you don't mind.

It's balanced (solo, comping, chord melody) and gradual (i.e. leveled) as well.

He's a bona fide recording artist and college instructor who has been there, done that. Most of the Artistworks teachers are heavy hitters.

Fingerings are personal choices. Pesrsonally I prefer CAGED with a few stretches here and there. For shifting approaches I prefer the techniques described by Aaron Shearer and William Leavitt. So I might play the same notes that Stryker plays but not necessarily with the same fingers. I think that's pretty typical though - because fingerings are personal choices.

**cris1xy** · 02-27-2021, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Donplaysguitar

It's balanced (solo, comping, chord melody) and gradual (i.e. leveled) as well.

He's a bona fide recording artist and college instructor who has been there, done that. Most of the Artistworks teachers are heavy hitters.

Fingerings are personal choices. Pesrsonally I prefer CAGED with a few stretches here and there. For shifting approaches I prefer the techniques described by Aaron Shearer and William Leavitt. So I might play the same notes that Stryker plays but not necessarily with the same fingers. I think that's pretty typical though - because fingerings are personal choices.

That makes sense and it cost less than half a year with Artistworks. Plus skype lessons. I only knew of Martin Taylor before going to Artist Works. Haven't heard of the others before them. I do have a book from Richie Zellon. I notice there's a jazz and bebop site. You have any experience with the jazz.richiezellon.com?

**cris1xy** · 02-27-2021, 01:21 PM

UPDATE. I got the TrueFire 2 week trial and subscribed to Frank Vignola's Channel. Starting from the beginning. Still looking at the other options for a course for more long term. I'm gravitating toward the Richie Zellon Bepop series atm

**Donplaysguitar** · 02-27-2021, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by cris1xy

That makes sense and it cost less than half a year with Artistworks. Plus skype lessons. I only knew of Martin Taylor before going to Artist Works. Haven't heard of the others before them. I do have a book from Richie Zellon. I notice there's a jazz and bebop site. You have any experience with the jazz.richiezellon.com?

No I don't, but it looks pretty good.

**cris1xy** · 02-27-2021, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Donplaysguitar

No I don't, but it looks pretty good.

I got confused, actually thought you were referring to the richiezellon improv course. So Dave Stryker course worked for you? I see there's some standards in there I need to learn

**jobabrinks** · 02-27-2021, 05:21 PM

I guess I would go with the one whose playing you like best, because you'll be learning their examples.

Those are 3 VERY different players.

**cris1xy** · 02-27-2021, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by jobabrinks

I guess I would go with the one whose playing you like best, because you'll be learning their examples.

Those are 3 VERY different players.

True but they all play great to me based on my exposure. Believe me I narrowed the list down from a lot more than that. But usually playing ability does not equal teaching ability

**Donplaysguitar** · 02-27-2021, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by cris1xy

I got confused, actually thought you were referring to the richiezellon improv course. So Dave Stryker course worked for you? I see there's some standards in there I need to learn

To clarify, I am more familar with the Stryker course than the Zellon course, but the Zellon course looks good.

If, like someone said above, he counsels you to compose your own etudes then that is very good. It's a pretty standard technique actually:

Learn some jazz language,
Practice jazz language patterns in all keys and at least two fingerings when possible/advisable (sometimes it's just not),
Write and master a 1-3 chorus etude/solo over the blues, rhythm changes, standard tune(s),
Finally, approach free playing (improvisation) either gradually in small steps, or in leaps.

Rinse and repeat until you don't need step 3 anymore. That may take a few years, longer if you have limited practice time.

**d115** · 02-28-2021, 07:19 AM

Excellent thread.

Can someone suggest an online teacher in the USA ?

**Michael Neverisky** · 02-28-2021, 08:50 AM

Learning styles and teaching styles differ so it sounds like a good approach to audition different teachers. It's remarkably inexpensive to do so.

The best jump start into jazz style for me was a few months with Jimmy Bruno. He used to call it "no nonsense jazz guitar" and I think his approach is quite practical.

**d115** · 02-28-2021, 09:58 AM

I joined JB's workshop last week and am working on the positions. I like the way he is tying in the arpeggios into the scales. So far he is presenting things in an easy to grasp method. I used to absorb things easier a long time ago, now not so much, lol. But i am finding the website helpful so far.
Maybe its too early for a teacher?
I know basic theory but never was able to apply theory to any depth in my years of playing bass in a progressive rock band. I basically played what sounded good to me.
Im finding the guitar quite different from bass as far as the possibilities and need to be able to make the connection between theory and application.

**Michael Neverisky** · 02-28-2021, 10:10 AM

Position playing helps tremendously on the guitar, as it does on orchestral stringed instruments, where a given note appears in more than one place. Unlike the piano, for example.

Once you internalize the positions, or patterns as I see them, you have the muscle memory to play a scale anywhere on the fretboard. Likely you can quickly play a major 2nd up or down from anywhere on the fretboard now. As you develop your ear and rely on muscle memory from those patterns, you can reflexively play other intervals you hear in your head.

**Joeontheguitar** · 02-28-2021, 12:14 PM

I've worked my way through roughly half of the Dave Stryker program, but I have a few gripes with it. First, Dave seems to repeat a few licks over and over again. Also, once I got used to the Truefire layout with notation that runs along with the music, the videos at Artistwork just seem so outdated. Plus, for the same amount of money you can choose between tens of different teachers at Truefire. I much, much prefer TF to AW now.

I'm also halfway the Jens Larsen program and I must say that I really like it. It is focused on improv and arpeggios. The approach Jens uses is very natural and I made really a lot of progress. With the course comes a very friendly community where you can learn from each other. Also, Jens provides feedback on every video. Not in a video, like at TF, but in words. Even in a few words he makes a lot more sense than what I got out of the feedback videos at AW.

Although it might sound a bit weird, but Jens' 'European approach' does appeal more to me than some American teachers do at TF.

**JoeW** · 02-28-2021, 02:14 PM

I have studied with Jimmy Bruno, Robert Conti, and Richie Zellon. I also subscribed to Artist works for a year.

I didn't like the Artist Works course. I'll just leave it at that.

Robert Conti is very licks based. After you memorize a bunch of very long licks, they eventually start overlapping. It is a very quick way to get up and running with improvisation. It was a good starting point for me; I spent a lot of time with Conti's material about twenty years ago.

I never had much success with Jimmy Bruno's course. He would ask you to film yourself then he would critique it. It's a great method for people who aren't shy about making video's of themselves, but for me it was a PITA and a deal killer. I didn't get far at all. Jimmy is a great guy, so I'm not knocking him at all. I love the guy. It just wasn't for me.

Richie Zellon offers a college level course. It is completely organized and I have been just very impressed. Richie gets my highest recommendation. If you want to learn jazz from the ground up, Richie Zellon is your guy. He's also very accessible.

**Endaro** · 02-28-2021, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Joeontheguitar

Although it might sound a bit weird, but Jens' 'European approach' does appeal more to me than some American teachers do at TF.

Interesting. Could you elaborate on what you see as the distinction in approach between the two?

**cris1xy** · 02-28-2021, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Donplaysguitar

To clarify, I am more familar with the Stryker course than the Zellon course, but the Zellon course looks good.

If, like someone said above, he counsels you to compose your own etudes then that is very good. It's a pretty standard technique actually:

Learn some jazz language,
Practice jazz language patterns in all keys and at least two fingerings when possible/advisable (sometimes it's just not),
Write and master a 1-3 chorus etude/solo over the blues, rhythm changes, standard tune(s),
Finally, approach free playing (improvisation) either gradually in small steps, or in leaps.

Rinse and repeat until you don't need step 3 anymore. That may take a few years, longer if you have limited practice time.

Thanks. Solid advice for a long-term outlook. I already made some fine tuning to my routine.