Different "Ways" of Learning/Practicing a Jazz Standard

[jamiehenderson1993]

So far, I’m working on:

• Playing the melody
• Playing the chords in shells through the changes
• Playing voicings on the 4 high strings through the changes (as well as keeping melody on top where possible)
• Arpeggiating through the changes (with Triads and 7ths)
• Playing a solo over the changes
• Working up an intro & outro
• [After this I'll try taking it into different keys]

Is there anything else that would be worth practising?

[alltunes]

I’ll add the obvious and something I don’t do enough.

Play through the changes using just the 3rd and 7th of each chord.

[JazzPadd]

Sounds like a fine routine!

I’d add two other things. Listen attentively to ten versions by different artists from different eras for each song you’re learning. This helps to get the sounds in your ears. And once you get the tunes down without charts in the common keys, go to jam sessions. In my limited experience, there are things that seem to be better learned through playing with others.

Wishing you all the best!

[rpjazzguitar]

Sounds solid to me. But I'll offer a few less common things to try, maybe after you've got everything else down.

One idea is to add passing chords every time a chord lasts for more than a beat or two. How to pick passing chords is a big topic. One thing I recently learned from a book recommended on here (Berkman's on Jazz Harmony) is to pick a bass note a half step from the target, above or below. And then pick a melody note -- and then try various chords with those two notes. So, you've got the top and bottom notes and you're trying out different inner voices.

Not the only way to find passing chords, but a reasonable thing to practice. Good compers seem, to me, anyway, to be good at this. You can also get good at finding inversions, tritone subs, and using harmonized scales.

Another thing to try is the approach Hermeto Pascoal used in teaching his Grupo sidemen. He'd have them write in several chords - above the chord in the chart. There was a logic to the selections which I can't recall, but it would be various common subs. Then, he'd have them solo on the new changes above the original harmony. Before long, they didn't need to write them down any more and could play them by sound. A lot of jazz players seem to be thinking a substitute chord while playing over the original.

That can be as simple as playing Fmaj7 over Dm7, which I believe Wes did a lot. Or, Gb7 over C7. Or, maybe as complicated as the way Coltrane developed his major third movement. Or, Chuck Wayne style, harmonizing every note for a chord melody and then soloing on every one of those chords.

Sorry if this is too far out for a simple question, but these are elements of advanced jazz playing to my knowledge.

[JazzPadd]

Not to hijack the thread, but thanks rp, that’s very useful yet simple, the passing chord formula of sorts. I was just working on an arrangement of When You Wish Upon a Star, and the idea of starting with two notes ought to come in handy!

OP, I second rp’s suggestion. It is indeed more advanced, but it’s something to aspire to.

[jamiehenderson1993]

Sounds solid to me. But I'll offer a few less common things to try, maybe after you've got everything else down.

One idea is to add passing chords every time a chord lasts for more than a beat or two. How to pick passing chords is a big topic. One thing I recently learned from a book recommended on here (Berkman's on Jazz Harmony) is to pick a bass note a half step from the target, above or below. And then pick a melody note -- and then try various chords with those two notes. So, you've got the top and bottom notes and you're trying out different inner voices.

Not the only way to find passing chords, but a reasonable thing to practice. Good compers seem, to me, anyway, to be good at this. You can also get good at finding inversions, tritone subs, and using harmonized scales.

Another thing to try is the approach Hermeto Pascoal used in teaching his Grupo sidemen. He'd have them write in several chords - above the chord in the chart. There was a logic to the selections which I can't recall, but it would be various common subs. Then, he'd have them solo on the new changes above the original harmony. Before long, they didn't need to write them down any more and could play them by sound. A lot of jazz players seem to be thinking a substitute chord while playing over the original.

That can be as simple as playing Fmaj7 over Dm7, which I believe Wes did a lot. Or, Gb7 over C7. Or, maybe as complicated as the way Coltrane developed his major third movement. Or, Chuck Wayne style, harmonizing every note for a chord melody and then soloing on every one of those chords.

Sorry if this is too far out for a simple question, but these are elements of advanced jazz playing to my knowledge.

Thank you for this - this is indeed well above my pay grade, but I hope to come back to this maybe in a year or so, and see if it rings true then!

[Bop Head]

Learn the lyrics (if available).

Be able to sing the melody.

Be able to sing the chord roots.

Be able to sing the guide tone lines (thirds and seventh).

Be able to sing the arpeggios.

Scale outlines à la Barry Harris.

[frabarmus]

I would add:

1) Try to figure out a solo (chordmelody) version of the tune (Rubato at first, then A Tempo).

2) Play all the (tune's) chords-voicings in as many areas of the fretboard as possible, first with the root/bass note (as if you're playing solo or comping for a singer/monophonic instrument), then omitting the chord-roots (as if playing with a bassist). In this case use chord-inversions, too.

3) Whenever possible, play chords "modally", i.e. if there are more than 4 bars of a given chord, practice harmonising the scale of that chord (like a pianist would do).

4) Try to comp "contrapunctally" aswell.

[AllanAllen]

Thank you for this - this is indeed well above my pay grade, but I hope to come back to this maybe in a year or so, and see if it rings true then!

A shortcut would be to get some big band charts. For example, Nestico arranged for Count Basie, so vicariously wrote charts for Freddie Green. I don’t know if Green used them, but charts were written. Most jazz is more arranged than people think.

[Bobby Timmons]

Good routine.

Scales, arps, intervals, chromatics to the changes.

Bass lines.

[pauln]

Suggestions are pointing in the "more harmonically complex" direction, which is valuable conceptually when exploring ideas during "slow motion" investigations of changes and melodic lines while practicing.

There is also the "less harmonically complex" direction, which is valuable conceptually when integrating vocabulary ideas during "real time" play through changes and melodic lines while practicing.

One of these integration methods is the "longer notes melody" which reduces the melodic line to fewer notes in each measure that still "anchor and express" the shape and sound of the line. Generally this means omitting ornaments, slurs, encapsulations, chromatic slips, etc. It may serve as a simple version of the melody's connection to the harmony from which melodic vocabulary may be developed and integrated (systematically applied, therefore generally applicable).

You do this by ear, but for clarity here's an example of the first two measures of the Out Of Nowhere head

D1 E F# A2 A3 G D4 E, F1 F2 F3 D#4
the numbers roughly indicate the beats

4 note per measure - D1 A2 A3 D4, F1 F2 F3 D#4 (quarter note melody)

2 note per measure - D1 A3, F1 F3 (half note melody)

1 note per measure - D1, F1 (whole note melody)

[emanresu]

Say it is a 32-measure standard. Set a 32-measure long delay on a daw. Or looper with a metronome for 32 measures.
Just play the darn thing round and round. Chords-melody-chords-impro-chords... etc.

[rpjazzguitar]

A shortcut would be to get some big band charts. For example, Nestico arranged for Count Basie, so vicariously wrote charts for Freddie Green. I don’t know if Green used them, but charts were written. Most jazz is more arranged than people think.

I've played Nestico arrangements. Can't say for certain that they were the exact ones that Basie played. That said, the guitar parts were the usual, chord names and hits. Maybe some single note lines (I've often seen them, but I can't really recall if they were on Nestico's charts). Freddie often moved on every beat, but I've never seen that stuff written out except on the site with Freddie transcriptions.

I think Freddie read the usual stuff but played it all like himself, picking the voicings, adding all the movement and articulating everything like, well, Freddie Green.

[Mick-7]

I've played Nestico arrangements. Can't say for certain that they were the exact ones that Basie played. That said, the guitar parts were the usual, chord names and hits. Maybe some single note lines (I've often seen them, but I can't really recall if they were on Nestico's charts). Freddie often moved on every beat, but I've never seen that stuff written out except on the site with Freddie transcriptions.

I think Freddie read the usual stuff but played it all like himself, picking the voicings, adding all the movement and articulating everything like, well, Freddie Green.

Yes, Nestico's guitar parts were the usual: chords, tempo and dynamics notation, but some of his progressions were busy, a different chord every beat or two - but generally just triads if they changed every beat.

[AllanAllen]

Yeah it was less, this is what Freddie Green played. And more, you don’t have to guess what chords will work there are charts to standards that are busier than realbook changes.

[Christian Miller]

I don’t think Freddie played all that detail. A lot of the time he hangs out on one or two single notes. He’s pretty zen.

Tbh I did a big band yesterday and I’m struggling to remember the Nestico guitar charts we did. I think they are largely quite idiomatic in that I can see the lay of the land without getting caught up in the minutiae


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[mr. beaumont]

I've played Nestico arrangements. Can't say for certain that they were the exact ones that Basie played. That said, the guitar parts were the usual, chord names and hits. Maybe some single note lines (I've often seen them, but I can't really recall if they were on Nestico's charts). Freddie often moved on every beat, but I've never seen that stuff written out except on the site with Freddie transcriptions.

I think Freddie read the usual stuff but played it all like himself, picking the voicings, adding all the movement and articulating everything like, well, Freddie Green.

As someone who is studying this style, I can say that Freddie rarely moved on every beat.

Either 4 of the same note per bar or 2 and 2, for the most part. 4 different notes to the bar is like walking, and the bass is already doing that

Which again, if anybody is interested, join me in the Summer of Rhythm Guitar, blah blah blah...

[Doublea A]

So far, I’m working on:

• Playing the melody
• Playing the chords in shells through the changes
• Playing voicings on the 4 high strings through the changes (as well as keeping melody on top where possible)
• Arpeggiating through the changes (with Triads and 7ths)
• Playing a solo over the changes
• Working up an intro & outro
• [After this I'll try taking it into different keys]

Is there anything else that would be worth practising?

I like all these ideas. I would add playing along with your favourite recordings


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[AllanAllen]

This is the one I was thinking of, turns out it's a Bob Lowden chart. Anyway here's the Basie version too. I feel like my general point still stands. Charts are available to give you an idea where to embellish real book changes. You don't have to invent this stuff, and eventually you can just use your ears... but i doubt someone can get to the point of using their ears on stage if they spend a decade inventing this stuff from scratch in the shed.

[mr. beaumont]

That Lowden arrangement is a fine example of how the guitar part might not sound "right" on it's own without the rest of the band.

EDIT: Actually after playing through it again I flat out don't like it. It's clearly an attempt to copy the Basie Arrangement (done by Wild Bill Davis) but some chords are just...not right?

[John A.]

So far, I’m working on:[*]Playing the melody

Yes, I do this

[*]Playing the chords in shells through the changes[*]Playing voicings on the 4 high strings through the changes (as well as keeping melody on top where possible)

To a degree, but not systematically. My goal in practicing tunes is to memorize changes and understand the form and harmony for purposes of soloing and comping. I also try come up with solo arrangements for some tunes, and for those I generally go through voicing possibilities (and re-harms) more systematically.

[*]Arpeggiating through the changes (with Triads and 7ths)

Not much. When I was first learning to play jazz I did quite a bit of this, but not in a long time. For bop heads (which tend to lean heavily on ornamented arpeggios), though, I do focus more on arpeggios.

[*]Playing a solo over the changes

Lots of this. Sometimes with iReal or backing tracks, sometimes not. When I use iReal, I'll often progress through multiple keys and tempos.

[*]Working up an intro & outro

I tend not do this as part of practicing on my own, but do work up intros and endings as part of group or duo rehearsals.

[*][After this I'll try taking it into different keys]

Yup

Is there anything else that would be worth practising?

- Practice at different tempos. I think it's especially important to practice fast tunes at tempos above my comfort level. I use iReal for this a lot.
- Experiment with comping patterns and voicings/substitutions, e.g., find places where back-cycling can fit, figure out which alt-dom7 voicings work on the cadences, etc.
- Analyze the tune a little -- e.g., look for the key changes and cadences, understand form/sections
- Try different harmonic ideas/scales over portions of the changes, e.g., altered scale over dominants, w/h and h/wh scale runs, whole-tone and diminished runs, lydian and/or lydian dominant, major over minor changes and vice versa, side-slipping and other out techniques.
- Play along with recordings
- Harmonize the melodies (or portions of it) in thirds and sixths
- Try different feels (e.g., swing, bossa, straight 1/8)
- Sing the melody while playing the chords

I wouldn't say I routinely do all of these things with every tune I learn (not by a long shot), but a little of this/a little of that to shake up the routines and find new stuff to play,

[rpjazzguitar]

As someone who is studying this style, I can say that Freddie rarely moved on every beat.

Either 4 of the same note per bar or 2 and 2, for the most part. 4 different notes to the bar is like walking, and the bass is already doing that

Which again, if anybody is interested, join me in the Summer of Rhythm Guitar, blah blah blah...

I stand corrected. It was more often every two beats.

[jbromusic]

You could play the melody and bass together (bass will follow the harmonic rhythm of the tune, not an actual walking bass line).

[lorez]

Someone already mentioned it but the thing I find the most useful when learning to solo, especially as I'm beginning to learn my Jazz chops is to compose solo's and try them. Play them in different positions. Try adding enclosures, chromatics, etc. This really opened up my ears to what worked and didn't.

I think someone once said "Composing is improvising slowly, Soloing is composing quickly"

Also with comping, try mixing a few of the patterns you have learnt together to add variety. This helped me move away from what was sounding stale and boring. If you have a looper even better. Do that and then play over it.

[TheGrandWazoo]

My Routine FWIW

(Based on a video from Tina Jackel)

Learning to Play Over Tunes
1. Chunks - Learn groupings of changes to see them as one whole part

2. Start slow
a. Slow Temp – Hear the changes
b. Sing Root
c. Sing thirds
d. Sing 7^th
e. Play Root – Sing arpeggio / Try singing lines over changes

3. Analysis
a. Analyze the changes; what is happening; keys; form; etc..

4. Memorize
a. Melody
b. Changes - Don’t worry about tempo / goal to play one chord after the other

5. Technical Exercises
a. Scales over chords/chunks (Simply)
b. Going down from root; 3^rd; 7^th / Going up
c. 8^th notes; 16^th notes

6. Improvisation with Restrictions (Over changes)
a. Half notes
b. Rest & Play (two bars simple line; two bars chords)
c. Play lines ascending (keep lines simple but melodic)
d. Play lines descending
e. Just improvising (simple)
f. Build to faster tempo

7. Write some simple lines
a. Play these line through the changes altering as needed
b. Keep it simple
c. End on a color note

8. Listen
a. Listen to different recordings of the song