-
A lot of Spanish guitarists particularly pre-Segovia played with no nails.
Segovia standardized a lot of things that didn’t need to be standardized but the nail thing was a necessity based on playing acoustic guitars in halls, so it had to cut. But it’s not necessarily brighter. That depends more on the orientation of nail to string. I play suuuuuuper along the string, hand very much at an angle, and it’s not bright at all.
-
06-06-2024 04:57 PM
-
Yea... what your playing and tone can easily be fixed.... what will take TIME is as someone said... your feel... which is how your thinking or feeling ... subdividing. Your playing straight... You need to think or feel triplets.
It's not complicated... if you need help... I can help, I can swing like... Or work with a pro drummer.
Most guitarist have same problem.
The 2nd thing is your harmony... both played and implied. Again work with someone who actually understands it.
The last thing is the obvious thing... which I'm sure I don't need to say.... is. Or do I.
-
I’d like to hear the end of this sentence.
Originally Posted by Reg
… and maybe this one.
The last thing is the obvious thing... which I'm sure I don't need to say.... is. Or do I.
-
Maybe you should apply for a forum monitor position LOL
-
Ah I figured I could just ask the guy leaving the cryptic ellipses and maybe he’d tell me. Originally Posted by Reg
Alas.
-
The tone isn't Wes, but it can work. (EDIT: Listen to Eldon Shamblin to hear a non-Wes tone swinging like mad). That said, my taste would be less trebly.
In fact, it's all fine. It doesn't have to be jazzy.
But, the reason Round Midnight doesn't seem jazzy, to my ear, is that there is limited syncopation.
Put on a fedora hat, your best Sinatra grin and channel Frank while you scat the melody. Then, when it's really swinging, put that feel on the guitar.
I think All Blues was better in that regard.Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 06-07-2024 at 10:13 PM.
-
I'm trying to help the OP... I can swing like a Mother F.... I've worked with some of the best drummer. They know and can help. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
The obvious thing is technique... which is always the main problem with most trying to play in a jazz style... not memorizing or playing jazz tunes.
peter I know you don't like my style so why don't you just block me...LOL
-
OP, I notice your point of reference in your post is to a youtube video rather than a record you like. Wondering what jazz you listen to? I think the classic versions of Monk or Miles playing Round Midnight could give you a lot of the information you’re looking for. The main thing is not about tone, but swing. Your timbre may be idiosyncratic but it could work for you if you so choose. Grant Green has a treblier tone than many, Bill Frisell often plays a Telecaster, and so on. Plenty of range in the canon as far as that’s concerned. The real gap is that your rhythm is straight eighths. The most basic way to think of it might be to try to play it as a shuffle—the way you might whack out a simple blues with alternating fifths and sixths. The reality is subtler but rhythm is the real question.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
There is a video of Jimmy Bruno playing over Bbmaj7 using chord tones (maybe some Bb major scale tones too, I don't recall) and swinging like mad. One chord and only a few different notes in the solo. Jazzy as can be.
I think it's possible to sound very jazzy with very simple harmony and the simplest note choices -- provided you play a good line with great time feel.
I'd like to think (and, really, I do think) that you don't have to have massive chops to sound jazzy. Paul Desmond is a good example. There are a lot of great jazz players who didn't play a lot of notes.
The simplest illustration that comes to mind is to play the chords to a simple song with each new chord struck right on the first beat of each measure. Right on that beat. If you have Irealpro turn off everything but bass and drums for the backing track.
Then try the same thing but change the chords an eighth note earlier, meaning and-of-4. Which one swings better?
-
I would disagree with those who say "your tone is fine" because the OP is clearly not happy with the tone, and the tone in the archtop video is the tone he desires. The more desirable archtop tone is clearly in line with all the classic jazz recordings from the Wes/Kenny Burrell hard bop era.
Furthermore, I agree with the OP that his current tone screams "jazz beginner." There's a stage some people go through where they can play the right notes but they have not listened to much jazz and they have no idea what they are playing, that's what this sounds like...."not jazzy" as the title says.
OP- you know what you want, so go get it. Don't settle for less or let it get watered down. You're already halfway to the goal, you've got pretty good chops, a Princeton tube amp, and a hollow body guitar. Add flatwounds and swing feel, turn down the treble and you will be way closer to getting the sound you want.
Your tone is a huge part of your sound, and your sound is all you have. Tone is important and don't let anyone tell you it's not. Lots of people think tone doesn't matter, technique is all that matters, so grab a telecaster and call it a day. That kind of thinking will lead you down the wrong path.
-
Ah crap. At least I know where I went wrong. Originally Posted by JazzIsGood
-
So, practical:
You are playing through a Fender Princeton amp? Then turn the bass and treble down to zero. You'll have to turn the volume up to compensate a bit. Then slowly add a little treble and/or bass until you find the balance between fatness and articulation that you want. There may be issues with recording through a mic, etc., which I frankly don't know anything about and can't give any advice.
Roll down the volume on your guitar from 10 to about 7 or so; with most guitars, that will knock off a little of the high end attack. I may go to extremes; the volume knob on my guitar is often at 3–4 with the amplifier turned up to compensate. The tone knob then can be used to fine tune your sound. Use the neck pickup only or primarily, if you want that dark/fat/soft tone.
You are playing finger style. Short nails (very short, like 1mm) polished like glass on the edges will bring down the brightness and bring up the fundamental of the note, which will make the tone fatter. do you ever play with a pick? If you have, you've probably noticed that a thinner pick is brighter and thinner in tone and a heavier pick is darker and fatter. The same thing applies to fingernails. I have very thin and rather brittle fingernails, so I get a bright and thin tone when playing fingerstyle. I use acrylic tips glued onto the natural fingernails (p-i-m only) to thicken and support them, which softens and darkens my tone. My nails are very short, not protruding over the flesh of my fingertips. My nails are shaped so that on the thumb side of each the nail is very short, almost down to the quick, and it ramps out towards the pinky side of the nail to about 1-1.5mm. This prevents the nail from hooking the string on the attack and provides a rather soft ramp for the string to release, which reduces overtones and increases fundamental.
Electric fingerstyle technique (and plectrum technique) really tends to require a rather light touch. To get a fat dark tone, you want to avoid any string snap and let the amplification do the work. Acoustic guitarists tend to overplay the strings and pick too hard. Relax a little.
Experiment with where your right hand is placed. I pick the strings at about the 20th fret on all of my guitars (which is also part of why I like really short nails and barely show any of the tip of the pick when I use one, otherwise I'm hitting the fingerboard or pickup). The closer your hand is to the bridge, the brighter and thinner your tone will be.
Focus on time and groove. The jazz swing groove is loose, flowing and yet paradoxically precise. The feel is somewhat between triplets and a dotted 8th followed by a 16th, not exactly either. While the 1 and 3 are respected, the emphasis and the pulse is on the 2 and 4. Think of it this way: when you're dancing, you step on the 1 swinging your hip on the 2, step on the 3 swinging your hip on the 4. The jazz groove emphasizes the swing, not the step. That's what makes it sexy compared to European classical music, which tends to emphasize the one and/or the three. The suggestion above of listening to Frank Sinatra and feeling how he phrases time is a good doorway to this. Also Sarah Vaughn, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Betty Carter just to name a few (I prefer all of these to Frank, who can be a little stiff).
-
Much good advice here. Try to roll off the tone, as many say, but also reduce/remove the amount of reverb. The amount of reverb you use removes definition and clarity and gives a compressed sound where all details disappear.
The guy in the 3rd video uses (I think) a touch of grit/overdrive which can also work good in some genres in the neighborhood like Blues.
Playingwise I hear something similar. Expression doesn't much change during the piece, as if there is no story to tell.
For rhythmic phrasing Lionel Hampton and Amy Winehouse also had that something which made them stand out.
-
very good observation Originally Posted by teeps
-
hey sounds pretty good. I like that version of “all blues” and good job keeping those notes ringing while you’re playing the melody in the beginning.
besides tone and feel recommendations given above my observation would be that you need to go “off script” once in a while and improvise….even break the groove if you have to…
-
Yea... I like the All Blues version... sounded different in E and ? different tuning.
But the tone and sound worked for the style you were playing. Check out Ralph Towner, Tuck Andress or guitarist more in that direction. There are many ways to go in jazz ... I guess.
But if want to sound like the player in the vid... where you pointed to. You need to make lots of changes.
Most jazz players don't really have rehearsed or worked out tunes... We have head arrangements that change all the time... depending on players and gig.
Some bands have books with more details, bands with arrangement even Big Bands sill have room to expand.
What your playing or the style is still cool. You need to decide what you want to do.... It's not like you decide you want to be a jazz player....and it will happen in a few weeks.
You can, as most have said change your setup and sound... pretty quick. But you still need to be able to play.
-
Thats also a good point with respect to transposing these tunes to guitar keys. Folks have mentioned tonal/timbral things about jazz being in flat keys and using the open strings sparingly, but it also I think probably hampers the flexibility of the arrangement in a lot of contexts. Originally Posted by Reg
Relying on a lot of open strings probably means you’re not using as many of those moveable shapes that lend themselves to flexibility in the future. Even if you grant that someone new to it is working out their arrangements, doing the tune in a flat key or something is going to probably set them up with a skeletal arrangement that will be easier to tinker with as they pick up more skills.
-
Did anyone notice how physically static the OP is in the clips? Holding, as opposed to hugging (mauling in my case) the guitar is maybe more classical school, which is fine as a plan for arrangements of these tunes, but electric is not a good fit with all those open strings.
-
It's good but it sounds too much like a guitar, this is my opinion. Originally Posted by sosa
If you don't like your way of playing you should listen to other instruments, for me the most important thing is to try to play basslines (tension and economy of motion).
It also depends of what you want to do, playing alone or with an ensemble, that's really not the same thing.
Have you ever heard about Eric Skye ? Your playing seems to be a bit similar.
-
Remember, something is only jazz when a jazz player says it is. And a jazz player only that when other jazz players agree that s/he is Originally Posted by ragman1
And we really can't have that on jazzguitar.be, can we now...? Originally Posted by Lionelsax
-
Jazz guitar struggles against the nature of itself. Originally Posted by RJVB
Remember, something is only jazz when a jazz player says it is. And a jazz player only that when other jazz players agree that s/he is
And we really can't have that on jazzguitar.be, can we now...?
-
Yes, muting strings, no open chords...
-
You're actually on your way. You use a lot of open strings, but it's your sound and defines your style. Don't change that. Originally Posted by sosa
The jazz sound is a combination of phrasing and the tone. What I'm hearing is you're not happy with your tone. I see immediately what the problem is. The Princeton reverb is a bright amp. I have a '65 reissue myself. Even if you turn your treble and bass all the way down, there's a set tone from the factory that will still be too bright for a traditional jazz vibe.
What you want to do is:
-turn the treble all the way down on the amp.
-Starting at "0," turn the amp's bass control up a bit at a time until it starts to sound boomy then back off a bit to get rid of the boominess.
-Set your guitar volume at 10.
-Starting at "0," slowly increase the guitar's tone control until you get a sound that's not too dark or muffled.
-Rolling back the guitar volume to around 8 or 9 will also tame the highs a bit.
You can also use a simple EQ pedal such as the boss GE7 etc or a preamp pedal between your guitar and amp input. With an EQ pedal, you want to set all the bands in the neutral position then start playing with reducing the higher frequency bands just a hair at at a time. Continue until the offending frequencies are reduced enough to your liking.
You play with a relative light touch so you don't necessarily need to go to heavier strings. I play with 9s on some of my guitars and people think I'm playing with 11s ot 12s based on the jazz tone I'm getting.
I have other amps that will give me more of that so called jazz tone. Different amps and pickups have their own equalization curves. They're not necessarily better, just different from that what you have. So you want to address the inherent equalization of your equipment to get the tone you're after. That doesn't mean you need a new guitar or new amp. In time you're going to find an EQ or preamp pedal is your best friend.
Good luck and have fun !!Last edited by AllenL1; 06-08-2024 at 11:42 PM.
-
I said Eric Skye but on electric guitar.
-
Does his sound have a peaty, smoky sweetness with maritime notes? ^^
Reply With Quote
Free: Surplus Custom Strings (local pickup...
Today, 08:09 AM in For Sale