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Hmmm. I play guitar because I love the sound of the guitar. It no more struggles against the nature of itself then does the saxophone, the trumpet, the piano, the bass, or drums. It just is what it is.
Originally Posted by Lionelsax
Jazz guitarists seem to have an inferiority complex: we can only play six notes rather than 10 like a piano, so we can't play chords and interacting parts with the same facility. Therefore we aren't as worthy and must defer to pianists. However, the pianist can't bend a note like a guitarist. They can't crescendo a note like a horn player can. A pianist can approximate legato playing but can't really do it.
We guitarists can't sustain a note for eight bars, so we can't play lines as fluently as a horn. As we hammer on and pull off, the note loses energy, unlike a horns legato lines that can maintain or increase the energy as the line progresses. Therefore we are aren't as worthy in jazz and must defer to horn players. On the other hand, the saxophone can't play a chord. They can't play double stops. Miles Davis famously called the guitar "a bitch to play."
To my ears, I never heard any indication of Joe Pass or Jim Hall or Ed Bickert or Kenny Burrell or Ben Monder struggling with the nature of the guitar. The guitar no more struggles with itself then does piano or a horn.
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06-09-2024 10:19 AM
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I like OPs tone. But I'm not jazz guitarist myself.
The trouble with treble is that the more trebly, the more control you need in the fingers. Those micronuances..
But the time feel is the key to get it work right overall. Having so much trouble with that myself atm. Good luck.
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I learned to play the violin as a child. When I was older, I wanted to play an instrument that could play harmony.
I now play guitar instead of piano, because a guitar is easier to carry around.
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First off.. your tone is great and you're making some good progress. Actually sounds like a guitar. And quite good for an electric guitar.
As for the advice you're likely to get in this forum, bear in mind that many players here, even good ones, wind down the treble until the guitar sounds like mud. Then they play (mostly) constant eighth notes using the Barry Harris version of a BeBop scale. If you think this may be the path for you, try some Pat Martino and see how it resonates with your idea of where you would like to go.
On the other hand.. there's Pat Metheny (try 'Missouri Sky' with Charlie Haden). And Ralph Towner. And Wolfgang Mulfspiel. And, of course, many others.
So.. yea.. your stuff sounded a bit stiff. Not because of the tone.. it's just a little stiff. But the more you play it, the more it will loosen up. You might consider backing tracks like iRealB to explore more improvisation. And, you may be surprised to see where your playing goes as you gear up to jam with others.
And don't take anything you hear too seriously. You will know what sounds right to you sooner or later. Whether that's Joe Pass chord melody with a nice jazz lilt to it, or Michael Hedges with some ringing jazz chords added in, you'll figure it out.
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Let's not get carried away. :P Originally Posted by Spook410
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Pianists who play 10 notes at a time bug me Originally Posted by Cunamara
Play the note and press the head stock of your guitar to the top of the box where your speaker is mounted Originally Posted by Cunamara
Last edited by pauln; 08-09-2024 at 12:30 AM.
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Some actually bum me... Originally Posted by pauln
Or they make me laugh:
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I think it sounds quite nice.
Quite honestly, if you're an amateur and you stay away from jazz nazis, you could probably do all right with your style.
One thing I think you will find is if you do arrangements, and later on when playing with people, you have to play the single note melody, it will be difficult. That's because your mind and muscle memory are just used to playing the chord melody.
At least, it was that way for me. So I would go back and do those tunes with just the melody. It will help you
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LOL there's some truth there Originally Posted by jobabrinks
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I found that a good way of absorbing jazz phrasing is by not just following the tab or sheet music but to listen to the phrases being played. Years ago I bought some DVDs by Robert Conti called ticket to improv that had the tab and a video of him playing. You can also find how-to videos on YouTube. Hearing a jazz guitarist play what you are attempting to play is a great way to start until you get the feel of jazz phrasing.
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Just adding another $.02 in here - solo guitar and ensemble playing are very different things, so while I think there's a lot of great advice in this thread, you want to parse out which advice is more so relevant to solo playing vs playing in an ensemble (or even playing with one other person.)
Similarly, improvising is different from performing a composed arrangement. Neither is better or worse in my opinion, they're just different skills, and they do generally produce quite different sounds/feels.
As others have said, it's up to you what kind of sound and vibe you're going for. Don't feel bad about your "straight" approaches to these tunes - I only listened briefly but they did sound nice, and keep in mind in some cases it might be better to "sound nice" than to satisfy a "jazz ideal." I think jazz musicians can be great at making other musicians feel bad about not being "jazz" enough, so it's good to be mindful of that as you're considering all this criticism (which I do think has been largely constructive so far, I'm just saying in general.) Jazz is jazz, jazz is not necessarily "better." Eg, I'm glad Chet Atkins was Chet Atkins and wasn't trying to be Andrew Hill.
Based on the clip you linked, I'd recommend checking out this nice solo guitar intro from Louis Stewart on "Darn That Dream."
You'll see that his approach to "arranging" (probably largely improvised) in that solo guitar section is very different from what you were doing, and it might be beneficial to try to analyze why. If you're into solo guitar and want to sound like "solo jazz guitar" there are many players out there to try to copy, then put your own spin on it. It's quite a lot of work to get anywhere close to this level of vocabulary, fluidity, harmonic language, etc, but it's also fun, and sometimes an enjoyable process. I'd recommend seeking out a teacher if you want to go deeper down this route.
Also, most solo players that you might assess as having more of a "jazz sound" in both their tone and phrasing/approach, you'll find that they also are quite good in a more conventional trio, quartet, etc.
Anyway, I'll just emphasize that if you want to get deeper into the jazz thing - in tone, approach, feel, etc, if there even a half dozen performances you really liked, if you learned them, played them, analyzed them, tried to pick them apart and make your own variations, you'd probably go pretty far. If you get stuck somewhere (like "why does this work? why did they make this choice? what is the middle note of this chord?") that's where a teacher can be helpful.Last edited by JakeAcci; 07-22-2024 at 03:54 PM.
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A bit late here, but yeah, my immediate reaction was about the feel or time. A great way to focus on that might be to get into some blues stuff. Keeps the chord changes simpler and more predictable so you can forget about that aspect for a while. And hey, a lot of blues players have some crazy feelz.
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You seem to have good technique. Definitely not the guitar. Ed Bickert played a Telecaster and he sounded amazing Originally Posted by sosa
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Or just listen to Grant Green, best of both worlds. Originally Posted by timmer
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