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I am trying to get a decent bossanova tone with my steel string electric guitars. My arsenal includes: archtop, telecaster, and flattop. Any recommendation on how can I get a decent tone? And players to listen to?
Right now I am using the archtop 17'' which is strung with round wound nickel. I turn the tone and treble knob halfway down, so that the that the rhythm becomes less strident, while the bass notes give the tempo (it's just me and one singer).
Any advice please please please
Ll.
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06-21-2024 12:10 AM
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Do you hear this as good bossa nova tone?
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Listen to decent bossa nova players and try to find out what are the characteristics of that music and the role of the guitar. There is a rhythmic/percussive element and the harmonic and melodic elements in the playing.
Try to emulate the essence of that with your mind controlling your fingers. Much more than relying on instruments/amps/FX/etc. people should practice to bring out a sound they hear in their imagination with their fingers. You have to know what you want to sound like. And adjust your playing accordingly. There has to be a permanent feedback between ear, mind and fingers. The basic pre-requisite IMO is learning to listen actively and especially learning to listen to yourself.
Of course there are differences between types of guitar. But the more control you get of them the easier it will be for you to get a convincing sound out of any of them.
Brazilian music and bossa nova is so versatile that you cannot speak of "the bossa nova" sound. A good starting point to find good players to listen to is Nelson Faria's YouTube channel.
UM CAFE LA EM CASA - YouTube
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In my opinion a good Bossa Nova sound is more in the touch, chords and rythm approach, than in the guitar used. Jim Hall had a superb Bossa Nova feel with his ES175.
It's easier to do Bossa Nova with a Telecaster than heavy metal with a nylon acoustic
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Here's an entire album of Bossa nova (with great tone!) being played on a strat, by a "shredder" LOL
Well this is one song, but it is an entire album
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What the OP wants is accompanying a singer ...
Originally Posted by ruger9
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He's looking for "electric tone"... not sure it matters whether there is a singer or not. Originally Posted by Bop Head
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Would you accompany a singer with a fusion solo? Originally Posted by ruger9
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Indeed it is mostly in the touch.
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Lol Originally Posted by Bop Head
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Charlie Byrd went nylon string and had great results for Bossa. Maybe try one of those in your arsenal. The Chet Atkins model I believe is electric.
Here's Charlie;
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What I posted isn't fusion. It's Bossa nova, on an electric guitar (actually, ALSO on a nylon stringed guitar) Originally Posted by Bop Head
Granted, the electric guitar has taken over the duties of melody in that clip, but again- the OP was asking about "Bossa nova electric tone"...I posted the example as a TONE example, as well as "electric Bossa nova to listen to"
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Hey thanks for all your replies: they are all great help.
I am so glad I discovered Nelson Faria: probably the tone I am looking for is the one in this video:
He is the guy on the left .
Do you think he is using flatwounds here?
Ll.
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I wouldn’t craft a tone/gear specifically for bossa nova. I’d focus on meshing well with the singer musically and providing the rhythm and harmony the singer needs (which is usually specific to the singer). Originally Posted by Llewlyn
Ella and Joe Pass is the gold standard. Julie London/Barney Kessel is another good pair. Joao Gilberto with himself or Astrud, too. When I play with a singer, I generally prefer an archtop. I string mine with flats, but I don’t think it matters much.
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Originally Posted by Jx30510
It's easier to do Bossa Nova with a Telecaster than heavy metal with a nylon acoustic
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Whatever you do, keep playing BossaNova. It’s the greatest music of my lifetime and worth cherishing!
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Nelson Faria is certainly a great reference here in Brazil, in bossa and other Brazilian genres played on the electric guitar! Here I leave my approach in a video with semi acoustics and another with archtop...
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When I read your first post once again after all the answers you've had by now, I realize you have a very complete arsenal of guitars. Archtop, Telecaster, flat top. I didn't really take notice at first sight.
If the sound you like is as Nelson Farias, maybe you should find what strings, picks and amp he uses, and go for that with your archtop ?
To me he seems to use a very neutral amp, maybe right in the mixing desk with some kind of preamp, and roundwound strings ? I may be wrong on that, but he has a very pure and bright tone, giving a lot of potential to add rythmic and dynamic textures in his playing.
Bossa Nova is really linked with that syncoped feel and very melodic lines. A clear and dynamic sound is appropriate for that style in my opinion. I wonder... if you made me listen ti that first video in duo without looking, I would maybe think it's some kind of acoustic guitar, not a jazz archtop..
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I am also a big fan of Nelson Faria’s playing. My first observation is that he is using his fingers and not a pick. I want to assume you’re already doing that, but thought I’d mention it. Secondly, what I think I’m hearing on that video is that he has the volume on his guitar turned down considerably and is adjusting the volume for the room with amp volume control. This gives the guitar a more acoustic sound, and it’s working well in the intimate setting of that video.
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Thanks again guys.
Yes, I play with my fingers (both rhythm and lead). I also thought that Nelson plays with guitar volume turned down to increase acoustic sound, and I am doing that too. I am going to drop him an email to ask him more about his setup (his website doesn't say much).
@caue amaral: thank you for posting your video! I like the sound that you get in Agua de Beber: can you tell me more about your setup?
Ciao,
Ll.
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Ditto Nelson Faria. He has a really good tutorial on playing bossa nova, choro and samba and understanding how those rhythms work. I played a fairly decent gringo bossa nova prior to that but it's definitely better since.
As tone goes, on my ES-175 I use both pickups when playing fingers style generally, but particularly with bossa nova. It gives a more acoustic feel to the sound rather than a primarily electric feel. Jim Hall's bossa nova sound was mentioned; back when he was playing his ES-175 there was always a rather acoustic vibe to his tone (perhaps because he kept the volume low enough that you could hear the guitar as well). He also spent time in Brazil learning how to play the music, having gone there for a tour and then staying for a while afterwards to learn according to one of his interviews.
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It's much more about playing with your fingers, and playing in the right groove rhythmically. Fingers take the edge off of round wounds, flats might even be too dull in some cases. To some folks. Great traditional bossa parts are usually played on nylon strings (yes, even in the Andy Timmons video), so you are trying to emulate that sound. So like you said originally, roll off the tone and volume a bit, and play with your fingers. Hard to get there with a pick. Originally Posted by Llewlyn
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Originally Posted by Bop Head
Whatever tone he eventually settles upon just needs to be full and clear / clean.
But some of those examples were ?? ( trying to be nice here )
Bossa Nova, samba, Latin - - that music is incredibly rhythmic and has a feel, and unless or until you ' get ' that feel, the music won't be right. Maybe backing up a Bossa Nova / samba singer means to think as both a rhythm section and then as a guitarist....Those examples kept ' the beat ' but not a samba beat at all.....
Just mho..but good luck to the op....
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And here's a few examples -
Ellis Regina and Toots T
!!
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I bought an inexpensive nylon string electric (Cordoba Stage) mostly for Bossa Nova sorts of things. It does sound quite good. Having a hard time getting used to the nylon string action (3mm at 12th fret for reference) but it's really easy to get a great acoustic Bossa tone. Would be good for a singer.
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