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I want to deepen the slots in my nut but I'm afraid to, i can't find high quality information about how to get the correct slot depth. I've watched many YouTube videos including all of stewmac's and they are useless.
Does anybody know of a really good high quality book for working on guitars?
Thanks.
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08-06-2024 07:34 PM
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Better off to take it to a qualfied luthier and get it done if you are not sure about your ability to do it. If you do it yourself and mess it up,you'll need a whole new nut cut which will be more expensive.
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It"s really about getting a lot of things just right:
- tools, measures, materials, procedures
- slot depth for each individual string
- slot shape ("V" vs "U") for each string
- slot bottom "break angle" curvature
- slot side wall's lateral flair angle/curve
- half dozen additional little known things
If you have not goofed up a few nuts in the past
your chance of success is minimal. Someone with
know how and experience needs to do that work.
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If you can't find information that's sufficient for you to do what you want to do, then perhaps it's not the available information that's lacking. Besides a cornucopia of guitar maintenance information available on various web platforms, there are many books that have been published over the years to do just about everything except the job itself for you. You could find these books on Amazon, or at your local library, or through interlibrary loan.
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Okay, thanks. I just find it hard to know which Amazon books are good and which are not. I think I'll let my luthier do it.
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Check out youtuber Twoodfrd. He has very detailed videos about about how he does his work. This one starting at about 11:10. goes into how to measure and deepen nut slots in considerable, uh, depth.
Originally Posted by voyage
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It's really not a big deal especially if you're just touching up an existing slot to widen/deepen it. I've done it many times and I don't even have the proper slot tools. I just wrap sandpaper around a feeler guage that matches the slot.
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Hiedeo Kamimotos book called Complete Guitar Repair is worth owning and "reading through", even if you do not attempt to do any repairs yourself.
Here's a link to what looks like a newer edition:
Complete Guitar Repair : Hideo Kamimoto : 9780825601569 :
Here's a link i found to the original 1975 edition
Complete guitar repair : Kamimoto, Hideo : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
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I think you meant to wrap sandpaper over a feeler gauge thats too thin on its own, not one that fits bare. Or else your slot will be too wide. Originally Posted by Tal_175
But yeah OP, it’s not hard if you have to do it. And if you mess it up, nuts are one of the cheaper parts to replace.
All that being said, I just take my guitar to a guy now. He fixes everything better than I could and we have a pleasant chat while he works.
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Thank you!
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Go to FRETS.COM and scroll down. There are two links to nuts, one to instructions on how to check the slot heights, and another, 'closer look' link that has loads of information. Keep clicking on the 'more' links at the bottom of each page until you've read the whole thing. The entire frets.com site is a treasure trove of information on dealing with stringed instrument repairs and maintenance. Sadly, Frank Ford is gone, but his website lives on. I prefer it to any book I've ever seen.
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In my early days as a hobby luthier, before owning proper nut files, I created a set of nut files using short lengths of wound strings, which matched the diameters of the sets I preferred. I superglued the strings to the side of a tongue depressor. It actually works. Use a razor saw for the ‘b’ and high ‘e’.
It’s really easy to go too far with a nut file — which is a great big drag, obviously. With the string sections and the tongue depressor (or popsicle stick), you really have to work it to get the slot deeper. You wind up creeping up on your desired depth, slowly.
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Information is now found on the web books are pretty out of date for anything you need. You can youtube just about anything related to repairing guitars. That does not mean it all has the same value or even correct but if you do it long enough you know what to trust.
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Dan Erlewine's book has that info and a ton of other info. Best book out there. Originally Posted by voyage
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First off, it is absolutely not a disaster if you cut too deep. If you cut a slot too deep you can fill it in with baking soda and super glue and do it over. As far as I can tell this is just as stable as the original material.
I feel that tools make it easier and more accurate and are worth their minimal cost. Nut files and feeler gauges. That and some painters tape.
Cutting a nut is something you learn by doing in the end. If the guitar is super expensive and you don't want to learn on that instrument, take it to a tech. You can always learn on your tele/strat/flat top and transfer your skills to all guitars.
Finally.. IMHO, you really should do this. I believe every guitar player should be able to do a basic set up. Set relief, intonate, and cut the nut to proper height. It's part of being a guitar player.
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Yeah take it to a tech if you're uncomfortable. Depending on the quality of the tech, they may not do a better job than you though. Seriously the amount of imposters out there claiming to know how to repair instruments is absurd. My tech is amazing but he also charges a lot and takes forever, so I opt to do things myself.
Things you need:
- High quality nut files (the expensive ones are worth it)
- Feeler gauges
Process:
- Do this one string at a time, and after you have already set your ideal neck tension and string gauge. You should be familiar with doing a setup before trying to do this. Also it helps if your frets are leveled, otherwise you could end up with backbuzz.
- Use the feeler gauges to make sure you don't cut too deep. The exact height you want depends on fret height and string thickness.
- You can try to find the "scientifically correct" depth to cut, but my experience with everything guitar setup related is that the prescribed measurements are a starting point. I always play my guitar and incrementally adjust to find what works best.
- If you F up and go too deep, not a big deal like others said. Super glue and baking soda. Just be careful not to scratch the guitar or the frets with your files.
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Making a nut from scratch is the best way for me but also the most time consuming. It is an art and a science. I have all the tools and files but, in the end, I always look mostly at the clearance on the 1st fret as you depress the string at the 2nd fret. This is a very small gap and if the neck has very little relief and plays nicely there is almost no gap. It is tricky because the amount of room for error is terribly small. It could be at the perfect height and play wonderful and yet one more draw with a file can put it to a buzzing nightmare. You always one stroke away from disaster and buzz.
The trick to nuts is to get the strings you normally use. Then space according to your preference which can vary depending on the width of the neck at the nut. The string spacing ruler is a must, but I am not a slave to it in that sometimes I modify the spacing on the fly. This well worth money for players who have a number of guitars to upkeep.
1. Nut files and get at StewMac
2. String spacing ruler
3. Variety of well-made files to shape these can be bought at any Box Store, buy the good ones no imitations.
4. Slightly angle the backside toward the tuners, this is the art of the process.
5. Don't let the string be captured by the nut, best to have the smallest channel that keeps strings from pulling off.
I like making nuts for guitars because it really is time consuming but frankly not complicated or risky as such. The best thing is when you do it yourself you can keep testing and testing things as you make small iterations. This can lead to a guitar that plays so much better and easier.
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Basically all you need are files and feeler gauges. The measurements I recommend for height at the 1st fret without pressing anything down are 0.016" - 0.020" staggered e to E for a medium low feel that will not buzz or 0.018" - 0.022" for a medium high feel that will not push sharp. I promise you if you hit these marks, you'll be satisfied. Make sure you set your action including the string height and truss rod to where you ideally want it first. As these will affect the heights at the 1st fret. Only do mimimal passes with the file at a time then check. Go extremely slow and gradual. You can even stop and play the guitar and let the measurements sit with you and gauge where they are before proceeding more. If you're not confident, practice on a beater neck 1st. Keep the slots completely linear but angled slightly downward towards the headstock. If there's a premature break in the slot before the edge, it'll cause the sitar effect. Originally Posted by voyage
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Proper height, that's what I need......but I expect it varies with preference and fret wire. So I need some sort of rule. My luthier did the nut on my Schecter solid body, and it's really good. The strings just barely clear the first fret but there is no buzz anywhere. I want my precious archtop not quite that low. I will take it to him, but I also would really like to learn this myself, I have a Squire with a twisted neck I can practice with. But I need the formula. Some people talk about slot depth, some slot height, some the clearance between 1st fret and string bottom when depressing at fret 3 (between 2 and 3). I guess I can measure my Schecter. Originally Posted by Spook410
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This is roughly my plan. I already have a Stewmac notched ruler, a Starret 24" straight edge ($130!), a Starret 6" rule with 16th, 32nd, 64th, and 100th scales, a fret rocker and fret kisser.... just that the guitars I want to adjust are all precious and I'm afraid....I should redo my Squire with a twisted neck to learn, but time is short and it's a six string so I'd never play it.
Which Stewmac nut files do you use? I've seen both the ones with round diamond coated edges and the traditional toothed files.
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I have had good results with the Anjetan Guitar Nut File Set from Amazon for $30. No reason for occasional use to buy more expensive sets from stewmac. Also have their bass guitar files.
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I prefer the way Frank Ford explained how to get the proper nut slot height (depth). His instructions are excellent. You don't need to measure with anything other than your eye, and it works.
The best fret files I've found are the Music Nomad files, available from Sweetwater. I tend to remove the files from the handles for quick touchups.
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Thanks. They list the sizes as .045" / .065"/ .075" / .085" / .105" / .130. I play .011 through .050. Does that seem like the correct sizes of file for those medium light strings? That's what's aggravating about this, not understanding this stuff I have no idea how wide the nut slot should be relative to the string size. But the videos I've seen make it look like the nut slot width is quite close to the size of the string. What do you think? Originally Posted by Donnd
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I presume you mean twoodfrd. I'll watch it again and check out the music nomad files. Thanks a lot. Originally Posted by sgosnell
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The Music Nomad files can be bought as individual files, so if I play .011, .015, .022w, .030, .040, .050 D'Addario Chromes, would I buy the files with those same widths, or how does one do it? Originally Posted by sgosnell
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