How responsive are MIJ Ibanez archtops in general?

[chris32895]

So I've played a bunch of Ibanez archtops and most of the Chinese/Indonesian/Korean etc instruments are very over-built and not what I would call responsive instruments. However, I have played one MIJ Ibanez, a JP20, and I liked it a lot. For the few minutes I played this instrument (acoustically only), I found the top to respond pretty well to dynamics and the instrument had a very woody acoustic nature to it. I really liked the sound and responsiveness of the instrument and found it to be the total opposite of the more budget models even though they are all laminates.

I suppose my question is, are all MIJ Ibanez's built this way with a thinner top and more responsive feel or is this just a thing with the JP20 in particular? Like, if I bought a GB10, would that basic quality of construction and responsiveness also be present in an instrument like that?

[pingu]

i can’t directly answer your question

however I own 3 Ibanez archtops
af120 95//96 narrow headstock Korean
af81 chinese built
newish Japanese Af2000

they are all built with similarly
with fairly thick tops ….
built to be played electric mainly i think

hope that helps a bit

[deacon Mark]

These are all electric guitars and not as such carved or to be thought of as acoustic instruments. They don't hold in comparison but could on occasion be work for some soft playing. I never like the Ibanez JP guitar the pickup is put in the wrong place and to me Joe sounded the best playing electrically on this 175. He always went back to the 175.

[Jim Soloway]

These are all electric guitars and not as such carved or to be thought of as acoustic instruments. They don't hold in comparison but could on occasion be work for some soft playing. I never like the Ibanez JP guitar the pickup is put in the wrong place and to me Joe sounded the best playing electrically on this 175. He always went back to the 175.

He did ... and yet some of my favorite videos posted here were from Joe playing his Ibanez JP.

[Cunamara]

There are examples of other people playing the JP20 and getting a nice sound from it. Our own Joe DeNisco, for one. Joe Pass often ran direct to the board, which may account for many of his tonal issues.

[skiboyny]

Well I wouldn’t say the Gb10 is built with a thin top by any means, it’s a pretty heavy guitar, but it is responsive. It is an electric guitar in most respects, but that guitar sings. It vibrates nicely for a small guitar and will respond to touch, playability is pretty much un-matched.

[arnie65]

Your question is predicated on a generalization of all Ibanez archtops made in Japan, and of course, the answer is a resounding "no". I've owned and played many Ibanez archtops MIJ, including my current one for the last 10yrs, a 1984 FG100. However, many guitars that don't bear the Ibanez name have also been built at the same Ibanez factory in Japan, like the Fender D'Aquisto, and thousands of Stratocasters etc... Japan came out really strong in the 60's building a lot of Gibson copies, many of which sounded and looked as good or better. The Terada and FujiGen factories have produced some of the best examples, not only of archtops, but of other guitars as well. Have all of these Ibanez archtops been the same quality, same craftsmanship, and same quality materials? Absolutely no, however, the late 70's and 80's guitar MIJ, were some of the best Ibanez ever made. I've played a couple of Ibanez archtops MIJ that sounded dead, or had no resonance, but compared to Gibson and Fender, Ibanez by far has better quality control and consistency in their guitars. A good friend of mine wanted to trade me his Gibson ES175, for my FG100 some years ago. After playing his 175 for an hour, I declined the offer, not because I didn't like the guitar, but because the tonal qualities of the instrument were not even close to mine. However, I've played some killer 175 models in the past, that tells you the level of quality that Ibanez had back in the 80's, and continues to have today.
Ibanez has factories in Korea, Indonesia, China, and here in the U.S., and even guitars coming out of those factories have been pretty good ones, however you'd pay more for a Korean made Ibanez than one made in Indonesia or China.
The Japanese workers are proud people who believe their work is their signature, regardless of their wages; that concept was lost here in the U.S. long ago...


Cheers,
Arnie....

[John A.]

As others have said, you can't really generalize about the acoustic qualities of an electric guitar based on the country where it's made, or TBH, even the price point. But you can sort of generalize on the basis of whether the top is maple vs spruce. Pressed spruce almost always has better acoustic properties than lam maple (assuming otherwise similar construction). Laminated spruce will usually as well.

Some less expenive non-Japanese Ibanezes I've tried that I thought had nice sounding (if not very loud) unplugged tones: AKJV90D (lam), AC151 (lam), and GB40thII (solid pressed). Ditto for the Guild A150 Savoy (solid pressed). Also, the Godin 5th Ave Kingpin (very thin laminated cherry top) has a surprisingly big acoustic voice.

[m_d]

The Japanese workers are proud people who believe their work is their signature, regardless of their pay; that concept was lost here in the U.S. long ago...

It is very true and is so pervasive everywhere in Japan - not just guitar building obviously. It is truly stunning.

[Dawgma1]

As an 'ol farther big band jazz player (& collector) I've had several "tools of the trade" 2 60's Gibson Super 400's, a '57 alnico L-5, a '65 JS, & a '62 Byrdland...bought when guitars weren't expensive!! wanted to but hated taking them out in public gigs, so I had 3 'lawsuit' Sugahara archtops for safety sake; An L5, JS, & Byrdland to cover most styles I play. Ibanez's mid '60's are great value for the money - were great players, fast necks, and unfortunately noticeably heavy and stiff from being overbuilt and excessive finish thickness. But maintaining a peaceful mind meant I kept the Gibson's @home. The fretwork was flawless and rewarding, except for the lack of responsiveness from over building practices required by Ibanez. I bet the craftsmen must have been upset daily knowing the sacrifices they were making f inorder to reduce future warranty claims!! An Ibanez archtop is of great budget value, considering how much guitar you get vs how little money is spent!

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

You can't generalize about this. Archtops made in the Fujigen factory tend to be truly excellent even though they're made to "overbuilt" specs. The Terada factory also produces wonderful guitars. My AF207 is a 1997 Fujigen product, and it's a wonderful guitar (although took me 27 years to discover that it needs really heavy strings to reach its full potential). I got very nice tone and playability from 12-52 Chromes with a 65 thou 7th Chrome for years. Then I discovered the 0.075 Chrome and added it as the 7th string, which added a fullness that wasn't there with the 65. But I decided to try TI JS113s and was very pleased with the overall improvement in tone - richer, more woody, and definitely in a league with the best laminated Gibson archtops.

Then earlier this year, I tried a set of heavy TI George Bensons (14-55) and finally found the guitar's real voice. It's just delightful to play and hear - I still get many compliments from both my bandmates and the audience about the tone. Here's a clip of its best electric tone (through the '76 Princeton Reverb I recently restored) -

...and here's a clip of a slightly lighter and woodier tone through a bandmate's Li'l Dawg Choco Prince (yes, that's one of my favorite at-home outfits for relaxing and practicing) -

While the specifics of tone and playabiity depend on the model, the design, and the year of manufacture, every MIJ Ibanez guitar I've played has been excellent and most are even better than that. I've also owned a few Chinese made Ibanez instruements, and they're inconsistent in quality (probably more in the design than poor QC). I bought their first 7 string flattop several year ago and found it to be poorly made, with terrible intonation and a generally cheap look and feel. I returned it within a few days. But the AEL207 I bought when it was introduced some years later was light years ahead, and it's still my go-to flattop. Despite a $500 list price (thanks in large part to its MIC pedigree), it has the look, feel, and sound of an instrument 5 times its price. It's a great jazz guitar too. Here I am accompanying the wonderful Maci Miller (a Philadelphia treasure and one of my favorite people). I'm playing through a Reddi tube DI box and the house sound system -

[Karlos]

i can’t directly answer your question

however I own 3 Ibanez archtops
af120 95//96 narrow headstock Korean
af81 chinese built
newish Japanese Af2000

they are all built with similarly
with fairly thick tops ….
built to be played electric mainly i think


hope that helps a bit

Hi, I read that you have an AF 2000, I am also interested in that guitar. Could you give me your impressions on the sound? I am interested in a warm, smooth sound.. If you also want other things, neck, build quality. Do you think there is something better from Ibanez? Thanks

[lawson-stone]

He did ... and yet some of my favorite videos posted here were from Joe playing his Ibanez JP.

I might get cancelled for this but I always loved the tone Joe got from the JP20. The gig with Red Mitchell, recorded live, is amazingly good. Likewise I think the solo album "Blues for Fred" was done with the JP20 and it sounds immaculately beautiful.

[lawson-stone]

There are examples of other people playing the JP20 and getting a nice sound from it. Our own Joe DeNisco, for one. Joe Pass often ran direct to the board, which may account for many of his tonal issues.

The strange thing is, I recently went through every single album of Joe's that I own, which is very nearly all of them, even obscure ones. I can think of maybe 3 or 4 where the tone was poor, but for most, I give the tone a B+ or better. Some of this is really just aesthetic preference, but I think once a guy makes one album that maybe has some tone issues, he gets pilloried for that. But I think almost every one of Joe's last 20 or so albums sound fantastic.

[mr. beaumont]

I might get cancelled for this but I always loved the tone Joe got from the JP20. The gig with Red Mitchell, recorded live, is amazingly good. Likewise I think the solo album "Blues for Fred" was done with the JP20 and it sounds immaculately beautiful.

You're not alone...

I think he also played that guitar on "After Hours," with Andre Previn? Some of my favorite Joe tones ever.

[Rob MacKillop]

Fine playing, Never!

[Rob MacKillop]

I’d like to add my 1980 Matsumoto-made Westone L5 with a spruce top. I’m unable to record it for a month or so, but it is the most-responsive electric archtop I’ve played, and with two pickups on board. I’ve only been able to play it acoustically so far, but everyone who hears it loves the sound.

Pingu now owns my AF 2000, a great guitar, which I was forced to sell along with three other guitars, but I was delighted it went to Pingu. I did record a short video before parting with it, a homage to Jim Hall, called One-Minute Blues:

[2bornot2bop]

The Japanese workers are proud people who believe their work is their signature, regardless of their pay; that concept was lost here in the U.S. long ago...

That’s due to wealthy men who owned huge company’s that employed thousands sought out cheap labor, not giving a darn about their work force. They put profits over their country. Sadly, this has become the American way of those who pull all of the strings, and the norm for the past 50 plus years. It’s a sad pity.

Regarding Ibanez arch top guitars, they’ve only been around for 55 years. Why would anyone think that they possess “thin tops?” I don’t get it.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Rereading this thread, I realize that none of us (and particularly I) never addressed the main question asked, i.e. how responsive they are.

Dynamically, they have a decent range from ppp to f. Acoustically, Ibanez laminates are not in the same league with good carved instruments for dynamic response to really hard picking. But IME, only a few very fine laminated archtops are closer in this regard, e.g. Dale Unger's). The quiet end of the dynamic range is very responsive. But the heavy tops, thick finishes, and relatively shallow Ibanez arches seem to compress the loud end a bit (even amplified). Some really responsive guitars seem to keep on going until you just can’t pick any harder. I don't think this is quality related in any way - it's probably purely from the choice of design and materials. I think the relatively higher mass and stiffness simply limit how much you can excite them with picking / strumming force.

Tonally, they’re very very responsive to picking technique, hand position, touch, etc except when playing very hard. I've been very happy with the responsiveness, playability, and versatility of my AF since I got it in 1997. Here's a track that I think shows the dynamic range and sensitivity. This is from my trio gig last night - our theme for the night was "jump blues" and this was the warmup tune. I think it shows pretty well how responsive a good laminated MIJ Ibanez archtop is to picking, positioning, volume dynamics etc. I was right on top of my Princeton, but I'm pretty good at keeping feedback in check. I try to keep my touch light, and I'm always ready to palm mute if necessary (which was not often in this tune). I don't touch the volume or tone pots at all. The comping behind the bass solo is very light, but it's right there and holding its own. The strings are Benson 14-55 TIs with a 75 Chrome 7th.

[John A.]

I find Ibanez archtops completely unresponsive. I ask an AF200 a question. Does it answer? No. I send a letter to a GB10. Does it reply? No. I call a PM200 on the phone. Does it pick up? No. I’m beginning to think it might be personal.

[Rob MacKillop]

…or presonal…

[Mick-7]

I find Ibanez archtops completely unresponsive. I ask an AF200 a question. Does it answer? No. I send a letter to a GB10. Does it reply? No. I call a PM200 on the phone. Does it pick up? No. I’m beginning to think it might be personal.

I've had the same problem with God, but once I realized that everyone else I know does too, it stopped bothering me.

[John A.]

…or presonal…

I can hardly focusrite now.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I find Ibanez archtops completely unresponsive. I ask an AF200 a question. Does it answer? No. I send a letter to a GB10. Does it reply? No. I call a PM200 on the phone. Does it pick up? No. I’m beginning to think it might be personal.

They're just very sensitive, John. They've been called "not a Gibson" for so many years by so many people that they think we're all against them. When I bought my flattop, it wouldn't even come out of the case. Only after months of sweet talking would it even let me remove the hang tags and clear plastic. But by the second year, it started to trust me. And when I introduced it to my Eastman twins, the ice broke.

Just treat it nicely and don't say anything good about Gibson when it can hear you, and an Ibanez will eventually come to be your friend.

[John A.]

I've had the same problem with God, but once I realized that everyone else I know does too, it stopped bothering me.

Never heard of that brand of archtops before.