Help me find Rattle on archtop

[MartinB1969]

Hi!
I got my guitar back from a general setup. It has a nice string hight now but the guy could not find the source of my rattling noise. Eastman AR372CE.
I tightened the three screws that hold the chrome string holder against the body. This really helped! I played for an hour. And rested the guitar upright on a stand. When I grabbed it again the noise was back. Although not as bad. I tightened all the other screws I could find on the guitar . I saw a video on YouTube. Lots of people said the most common source for that kind of rattle is the springs underneath the pickup screws. I called a tech and asked about what to buy and he said “- just screw it a little bit and the rattle will disappear.” It seamed to work but noise comes back after a while of playing. Drives me nuts. It is a lot better now. But still. It comes and goes. It doesn’t come out in the amp. Only acoustically. A distortion when two notes are played. Practicing swing rhythm guitar is a nightmare!

is there a good video somewhere that explains how to address this? I have owned this guitar for a year . I play it many hours per day and I really want to understand what causes all these noises. I love it when I works!! Thanks.

[burchyk]

It is annoying indeed.

I find it easier to ask someone (usually my wife) to play the note which triggers the rattle and move around dampening things with fingers until the rattle disappears.

Pretty much any part of the guitar can cause this: tuners, strings against the frets behind, truss rod, screws and nuts, pickups, TOM saddles or screws, bridge base, wires, pots, socket, braces, cracks, ...

If you're sure it is the saddles or adjustment screws, sticking inside a piece of cork or other dampening material at hand should do.

[AllanAllen]

My pickup ring and knobs buzz. I found them by hitting the note and touching stuff till I found the noise.

The weird thing, once I knew what the problem was it stopped bothering me.

[sgosnell]

There are several threads on the forum addressing this. There are far too many possibilities to even begin to give an answer, but I'll try to start with things I can think of off the top of my head.

Pickguard buzzing against pickup ring(s).
TOM bridge parts buzzing.
Cables inside the body buzzing against the back or top
Potentiometer shafts buzzing, especially if one is a push-pull for coil split
Loose nuts on the headstock
Truss rod cover
Truss rod
Pickup retaining springs
Pickup buzzing against the retaining ring
Loose mounting screws for the pickguard
Loose parts on the output jack

I'm sure I haven't covered every possible cause, but it's all I can think of at the moment. Buzzing knobs can be fixed by putting felt washers or wound rubber bands under them. I won't live with that, because it's easily fixed. The pickup ring buzz can also be fixed easily enough, depending on exactly what is buzzing against what.

[Cunamara]

My ES-175 had a rattle which turned out to be the pickguard rattling against the pickup ring. I removed the pickguard, which ended the rattle, and then discovered I really liked playing the guitar without it so I didn't put it back on. I was gonna put a little foam under the edge of the pickguard where it comes up against the pickup ring, which I will eventually do if I ever put it back on.

Tracking down and fixing rattles in an archtop guitar sometime seems like a séance and exorcism would be the most effective approach. It can be quite maddening. I suspect that my solidbody guitars also have rattles and buzzes, but because of the body doesn't resonate with them it's not noticeable.

[rpjazzguitar]

Once it was the little screws in the tuners.

[Mick-7]

My ES-175 had a rattle which turned out to be the pickguard rattling against the pickup ring. I removed the pickguard, which ended the rattle, and then discovered I really liked playing the guitar without it so I didn't put it back on. I was gonna put a little foam under the edge of the pickguard where it comes up against the pickup ring, which I will eventually do if I ever put it back on.

Funny, I had the exact same problem on my Japanese ES-175 copy, a strip of fiberboard under the pickguard corrected it - you could also use a rubber grommet, cork, etc.

[MartinB1969]

Thanks for your replies. I took away the pick guard. No result. I unscrewed the neck pickup and let it just sit there. No result. Did the same thing with the bridge pickup. Bingo! Something in the bridge pick up is loose.

I have read somewhere that people put cotton between the ring and the pick up? I’ll see what I can do.

[MartinB1969]

Btw, why is neck pickup spring wider ? Less springy? Shorter? Is it because it isn’t supposed to be raised as high?

EDIT. I have now mounted thin packing material around the springs and mounted the pickups back on. Interesting process but the noise is still there.

I’ll continue the search tomorrow.

[pingu]

Thanks for your replies. I took away the pick guard. No result. I unscrewed the neck pickup and let it just sit there. No result. Did the same thing with the bridge pickup. Bingo! Something in the bridge pick up is loose.

I have read somewhere that people put cotton between the ring and the pick up? I’ll see what I can do.

I put electrical tape around the pu
and part of a sax reed to immobilise it (zoom in a bit)


clumsey maybe but it works

[sgosnell]

A piece of reed or guitar pick can help damp the buzz of the pickup against the ring, if that's the cause. Most springs I've seen are identical, but someone might have replaced some, possibly at the factory or at a later time. Some people replace the springs with latex tubing, which won't buzz. I like using slightly bigger tubing, and putting it around the spring, so spring inside tubing. The tubing helps either with or without springs. You do need to use some judgement when cutting the tubing to length, and it might take more than one trial to get it right, but I think it's worth the effort.

[MartinB1969]

EDIT: 95% of the noise is gone. The rest comes and goes. I’ ll try the tape around pu and a piece of reed / plectrum to stabilize.

thanks once again for the help! I know that there are a lot of threads on this subject already but many of them have derailed and it was hard to get a solid piece of information out of them.

this was the first time I did this kind of work. My tech really helped out and made my guitar playable . Due to extreme humidity the action got worse and worse during the summer but after waiting 3-4 weeks to get it back I was a little bummed that that noise was still there. I play ALOT these days and the vibrations made it impossible to play in the end. I can live with this :-)

[Spook410]

Distortion on specific notes sounds like sympathetic vibration from the strings behind the bridge and in front of where they connect to the tailpiece. Pretty common problem. Try deadening the strings in this area (you can use your palm for testing).

[MartinB1969]

Thanks!
That’s what the tech said too. Sometimes that makes sense. For me it was distortion on everything between the 4th and 9th fret. That was before I removed the bridge pickup. Then It stopped completely. After mounting it again it came back randomly. But it’s better now. I am learning. I am sure l’ll have to do this many times in the future.

[sgosnell]

There are multiple ways to damp the strings between the bridge and tailpiece. You can use Velcro across the strings, or a piece of rubber, felt, whatever threaded between the strings, or (my preference) grommets placed between the strings. It only takes three, and it makes a difference.

[MartinB1969]

There are multiple ways to damp the strings between the bridge and tailpiece. You can use Velcro across the strings, or a piece of rubber, felt, whatever threaded between the strings, or (my preference) grommets placed between the strings. It only takes three, and it makes a difference.

I live in Sweden. I Googled Grommets but I still don’t get it. I am curious what you mean?

I strapped a Velcro across the strings and the combined results is very pleasing . I can finally practice swing rhythm guitar unamplified without distortion.

[AllanAllen]

grommets are rubber washers with a groove along the edge.

[MartinB1969]

Thanks!

[sgosnell]

Grommets are designed to fit into holes, to protect wires or other things from being damaged by the material the holes are in, usually metal. In this application, they just fit between the strings as shown in Allen's post. Many Gibson guitars have a grommet which holds the pickup selector switch.

[pingu]

I play ALOT these days and the vibrations made it impossible to play in the end. I can live with this :-)

I understand totally …. but don’t compromise

You have found the source
keep going till you fix the rattle
even if the bridge pu has to go !

(however this is very unlikely)

Pat Metheny removed the bridge PU on his 175 I don’t know why
maybe he had a rattle ?

anyway , don’t compromise
It will be soooo worth the effort when you get the guitar sounding true

[garybaldy]

grommets are rubber washers with a groove along the edge.

I use those on my Loar 700.

[Cunamara]

I know that there are a lot of threads on this subject already but many of them have derailed and it was hard to get a solid piece of information out of them.

Threads derailed so that the original intent is obscured and buried under extraneous, trivial nonsense? Not here- you must've been searching some other forum.

[Cunamara]

Pat Metheny removed the bridge PU on his 175 I don’t know why
maybe he had a rattle ?

Thread derailing ahead!


When Pat bought his ES-175, it had only a neck pickup (ES-175, not an ES-175D). In high school woodshop, he cut a hole to add a bridge pickup and holes for a switch and the second volume and tone knobs. He quickly realized it didn't sound very good and none of his favorite guitarists used the bridge pickup anyway, so he removed it. He plugged the holes where the controls had been, but just put gaffer's tape over the hole by the bridge that he cut for the pickup. Later the end pin fell out and he jury-rigged an anchor for the guitar strap with a toothbrush through the tailpiece and the rest is history.

[Mick-7]

I live in Sweden. I Googled Grommets but I still don’t get it. I am curious what you mean?

Grommet is just another name for a washer, the search term "rubber washer" turns up grommets too.

But I just learned that there are female washers (even promiscuous "quick connect" ones, see the link below) so maybe grommets are male washers?

https://www.acehardware.com/departme...ectors/7684426

If you store your washers and grommets together, perhaps they'll procreate and you'll never have to buy another washer or grommet again?