Online Auction Houses?

[Mick-7]

I'm wondering what experience, good or bad, members have had with online auction houses.

P.S. - To clarify, by "auction houses," I meant companies such as Heritage, Live Auctioneers, et. al. - not auction sites like eBay, Good Will, etc.

[Stringswinger]

I bought a guitar through Heritage Auctions. Years later I found that the original pickup they advertised was not original. By the time I sourced an original pickup and sold the one it came with, I was out a bit over three hundred bucks. The Statute of limitations for a lawsuit had passed (and would harldly have been worth pursuing) and Heritage refused to make it right.

I would not do business with them again and warn everyone that caveat emptor applies in a big way with them.

[DMgolf66]

I bought a guitar through Heritage Auctions. Years later I found that the original pickup they advertised was not original. By the time I sourced an original pickup and sold the one it came with, I was out a bit over three hundred bucks. The Statute of limitations for a lawsuit had passed (and would harldly have been worth pursuing) and Heritage refused to make it right.

I would not do business with them again and warn everyone that caveat emptor applies in a big way with them.

Ive gotten a couple things from them and had a great experience. Professionally packed, etc, etc. I wouldnt steer anyone from them necessarily.

Some folks around here tend to be quite conservative, wary and to ME pretty demanding with regards to purchases. I think it all depends on expectations, risk tolerance, etc.
Ask all the questions you can, obviously. Due dilligence.

[Sam Sherry]

I've bought a couple of things from Heritage.
a) Remember that 25% buyer's premium.
b) If you ask a precise question with time for an answer there's a decent chance you'll get a precise answer.
c) Their pictures only attempt to tell part of the story.
d) Yeah, they pack well.

I've bought a bunch of things from ShopGoodWill.com
a) Bids often get high because at least some of the purchase price goes to help people who really need help.
b) Nobody who works at GoodWill knows anything about gear. Unless you're asking them to use a ruler, just don't bother.
c) Pics have improved over the years but see (b) above.
d) They aren't offended by suggestions about packing.

[Stringswinger]

The Heritage folks did pack well. I will give them that.

[JazzPadd]

Not sure if it’s available outside Japan, but I’ve had generally good experiences with Yahoo Auction. The descriptions have been accurate and are posted by sellers who know their gear, and usually with ample pics. Things seem to run pretty smoothly, but I’ve only bought pedals on there.

[DMgolf66]

The Heritage folks did pack well. I will give them that.

I bought a monstrous Gibson Titan amp w/cabinet and that freakin thing mustve had a $100 of bubble wrap, foam, styrofoam, gyrofoam and cardboard. It was nuts. Id love to see the facility where they do that. Ive easily shipped over a 1,000 bottles of vintage spirits and have a weird fascination with packing, haha.

[Litterick]

The auction house's liability is limited because it is not the owner of the object; it is acting on behalf of the owner, who has consigned the object to the auction house for the purpose of sale. Liability will be determined by the legal jurisdiction under which the auction house operates. The Heritage Auctions terms and conditions include a clause (45), which says the claimant and the auction house "each consent to the Claim being presented in a confidential binding arbitration before a single arbitrator administrated by and conducted under the rules of the American Arbitration Association." Furthermore, "In the event that any Claim needs to be litigated, including actions to compel arbitration, construe the agreement, actions in aid of arbitration, or otherwise, such litigation shall be exclusively in the Courts of the State of Texas, in Dallas County, Texas, and if necessary the corresponding appellate courts."

Which is to say, a process exists to resolve disputes arising from auctions; the auction house and the winning bidder agree to use that process. It pays to read the terms and conditions.

[Mick-7]

Not sure if it’s available outside Japan, but I’ve had generally good experiences with Yahoo Auction. The descriptions have been accurate and are posted by sellers who know their gear, and usually with ample pics. Things seem to run pretty smoothly, but I’ve only bought pedals on there.

Hadn't heard of this so I just looked it up:
"The Yahoo Auction website is for Japanese residents only, and most Japanese sellers will not ship internationally to other countries. You'll also need to use a proxy-bidding service to be able to bid on items. The website only accepts a Japanese payment method, so you can't use foreign credit cards or PayPal."

[Mick-7]

I bought a guitar through Heritage Auctions. Years later I found that the original pickup they advertised was not original. By the time I sourced an original pickup and sold the one it came with, I was out a bit over three hundred bucks. The Statute of limitations for a lawsuit had passed (and would harldly have been worth pursuing) and Heritage refused to make it right.

I would not do business with them again and warn everyone that caveat emptor applies in a big way with them.

Thank you. You've hit on one of my concerns, which is how accurate the listings may be because, unlike musical instrument dealers, the seller may not (probably isn't) knowledgeable about the instruments they've listed.

Many years ago I bought an acoustic guitar from a pawn shop on eBay, and the description of the guitar did not come close to matching the one I received, the frets were practically worn out. I was able to return it immediately for a refund but the experience taught me that it can be a crap shoot to buy from a party who is not a musical instrument dealer and therefore may be uninformed about them. Of course this is a given with a site like Good Will, but I'm wondering if it applies to the auction houses too, how much due diligence they do for the large cut of the sale they take.

[Mick-7]

I bought a monstrous Gibson Titan amp w/cabinet and that freakin thing mustve had a $100 of bubble wrap, foam, styrofoam, gyrofoam and cardboard. It was nuts. Id love to see the facility where they do that. Ive easily shipped over a 1,000 bottles of vintage spirits and have a weird fascination with packing, haha.

I suppose they felt a "titan" amp deserves titanic packing - iceberg protection.

[Litterick]

Thank you. You've hit on one of my concerns, which is how accurate the listings may be because, unlike musical instrument dealers, the seller may not (probably isn't) knowledgeable about the instruments they've listed.

Many years ago I bought an acoustic guitar from a pawn shop on eBay, and the description of the guitar did not come close to matching the one I received, the frets were practically worn out. I was able to return it immediately for a refund but the experience taught me that it can be a crap shoot to buy from a party who is not a musical instrument dealer and therefore may be uninformed about them. Of course this is a given with a site like Good Will, but I'm wondering if it applies to the auction houses too, how much due diligence they do for the large cut of the sale they take.

Auction houses employ specialists who know what things in their field are worth. They will ensure the description matches the thing, and negotiate the estimate and reserve price with the owner.

[Hammertone]

It's just another way to buy a guitar. One just needs to factor in all the costs, and do one’s homework. I’ve dealt with Julian’s and it worked great. I got a fantastic deal on a fabulous guitar.

[RJVB]

I have some experience with Artprecium in Paris and still receive their mailings to announce auctions. Some knowledgeable people (including experienced luthiers) working there, and France being France, they've got the official accreditation to do appraisals. Initially I thought I'd just use their free online appraisal service to set a price for the violins and bows I wanted to sell, but ended up selling almost everything through them. The bows went without a glitch and for a bit over their list prices (which were fair), but one violin actually went for a bit under the reserve price (after asking my permission and waiving my part of their commission on the transaction because they preferred to move the instrument). I lost money on at least that instrument but I probably would have had anyway, and they might still be sitting here if I had insisted on selling them myself.

That's one thing to keep in mind: what happens when an item isn't sold. Does it partake in the next auction and if so, how often?

I discussed selling my Bolink through them too, but they proposed to list it at about 2000€ IIRC. At the time I had it insured for 8x that at least, a new commission would probably cost 10x, and Bolink himself had suggested to ask 12k and requested I didn't sell for less than 10k. That's another thing to be aware of: auction houses have experts at appraising instruments ... at the value they might have for potential auctiongoers. For that they'll preferably look at auction records, and in my case only a single one existed for an instrument from this builder.

No one seems to have mentioned eBay? I think they were originally an online auction service. They still are partly, and they must have a selection of special services nowadays for auctioning off/selling valuable items.

[Archie]

I don't know how things work state side but the best motto you can attach to auctions is ‘buyer beware’.

Another of putting that is ‘only buy what you have seen and tested’.

You have no guarantee (unless they made a mistake), no come backs and most people, dealers and other, use auctions to dump their cr*p.

i’ve say at least 50 of auction guitars have serious neck issues, repairs or otherwise.

Not to mention that they aren’t cheap.

[Mick-7]

Auction houses employ specialists who know what things in their field are worth. They will ensure the description matches the thing, and negotiate the estimate and reserve price with the owner.

Some auction houses are lax about this, as evidenced by Stringswinger's experience and listings like this one ("Item is untested").
Fender Champ Silverface Guitar Amp Auction

[Mick-7]

I don't know how things work state side but the best motto you can attach to auctions is ‘buyer beware’.

Another of putting that is ‘only buy what you have seen and tested’.

You have no guarantee (unless they made a mistake), no come backs and most people, dealers and other, use auctions to dump their cr*p.

i’ve say at least 50 of auction guitars have serious neck issues, repairs or otherwise.

Not to mention that they aren’t cheap.

I'd be reluctant to make a blanket statement about all auction houses, surely there must be good ones? If there are specific auctioneers you believe deserve the review you've given, Archie, it would help if you name them.

[Stringswinger]

Some auction houses are lax about this, as evidenced by Stringswinger's experience and listings like this one ("Item is untested").
Fender Champ Silverface Guitar Amp Auction

In my case, I believe Heritage reported what the seller/consignor told them, to wit that the neck pickup on the guitar I won at auction, was original but with a changed cover (the original would have been nickel but supposedly it had been changed to chrome to match the back pickup which was a late 70's T-Top with a chrome cover. The guitar in question was a 1963 ES-175 that would have come stock with two early patent sticker pickups with nickel covers. They had photographed the bottoms of the pickups and it all looked as represented. Years later I decided to do a full restoration and I sourced two original nickel covers and a early patent sticker pickup without a cover. Imagine my disappointment when removing the chrome cover to find that the neck pickup was in fact, a late 60's T-top with a patent sticker. I contacted Heritage and they told me that as several years had passed, my "approval" period was long gone and I was SOL. I found another early patent pickup, sold the T-top and when all was said and done, I was out about $310. Had I caught it early and had Heritage still refused to make things right, I do not think I would have gone to Texas to sue them.

Buying guitars sight unseen is always a risk. Heritage should have offered me a coupon for my loss to be applied to a future purchase through them. Their failure to try to make me happy has lost them a customer for life and I hope a few people reading this will decide that doing business with them is not worth the risk.

[Mick-7]

No one seems to have mentioned eBay? I think they were originally an online auction service. They still are partly, and they must have a selection of special services nowadays for auctioning off/selling valuable items.

I don't think so, they are pretty much hands off, private sellers list their items and only their feedback ratings can tell you how trustworthy they may be.

[deacon Mark]

Auction House in my opinion are vultures. They are strictly all about money. They might come up with experts and big-time write ups but they just want to make money. They don't care if your Stromberg was Hank Garland's except to sell it and could care less who gets it as long as you pony up the cash. They talk big and produce small.

Real dealers like George Gruhn and Larry Wexer far exceed what these auction house can know, say, or understand. The whole business just smells funny to me. To tell the truth at least with buying a jazz guitar that is traditional or handmade, I would say your first and best option to go right the FOR SALE section of this forum. Right now there are some incredible guitars for sale and prices are generally fair if not outstanding. There is a risk but that goes with any buying of a guitar.

Ok, my rant and preach is over but I sure would like to see them never get in the vintage guitar selling.