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Hi everyone,
I'm trying to research handmade archtops - and there seems surprisingly little about these instrumensts on this forum - the odd scattered remark.
I'm very strongly inclined to get myself a Comins (Either a concert or a classic) - if possible from a dealer so I don't have to wait over a year...
Wondering if anyone has any experience of Comins archtops and if they do if they would share their impressions with me.
Also anything on the advantages/disadvantages of going the handmade route...And anything on other makers especially Steve Andersen, Mapson, Manzer, Foster, Moll etc.
thanks!
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12-06-2010 06:05 PM
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Advantages: you can request a custom instrument; quality of build
Disadvantages: won't know how it will sound until you've paid and it's in your hands; you may end up spending more than necessary for that extra "5% better"
I can't comment on the brands you mentioned but i am currently going through this process. I'm being very picky as it will be the only nice guitar i own. I bought a handmade instrument blindly and wasn't happy with it, so i would highly recommend playing the guitar before buying.
Another lesson i learned was that price =/= sound quality. I played 15-20 handmade / boutique archtops over the past 8 months ranging from $1000 - $10,000 and so far have been most impressed with a Campellone which was $4,500 used.
If you aren't doing anything in July go to the Montreal Guitar show, and play all the instruments you want all in one place. If you are dropping $10k on a guitar, it may be worth a $300 plane ticket + few nights of fun in Canada (provided you are in the Americas). I may do the same.
Why did you choose the Comins over all the other brands out there?Last edited by spiral; 12-07-2010 at 01:34 AM.
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Wait...there's fun nights out to be had in Canada? Who knew!!!
Originally Posted by spiral
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I sold an L5 to get a Campellone, best decision I ever made WRT guitar purchases. Originally Posted by Groyniad
Welcome to Campellone Guitars
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Very interesting to hear what Spiral and Riovine have to say. I've heard a number of good things about Campellone if you want an L5 type instrument. Part of my reason for getting a handmade guitar was dissatisfaction with Gibson (I've had a wide range of old and new, humble and fancy, Gibson archtops over the last twenty years) - so I haven't put a lot of time into finding out about Campellone. Could you say more about why the instrument is so good R?
Why Comins? First, I've found it very hard to LOOK systematically for these instruments. I don't even know who the top five or ten builders are widely taken to be - and I haven't had a chance to look at their instruments carefully.
I got some very positive comments about Comins from owners of guitar dealerships - the word is he makes a guitar that has a distinctively warm and mellow tone (and this is very much my thing - I don't want bright and zingy and percusive). He says in an interview with JJG that he makes the instruments with the idea that their primary purpose is to be amplified - and I think that is different from a lot of contemporary builders. I think these very expensive guitars are - ironically enough - very often made for people who don't play very much - and very rarely in public. This means that the acoustic properties of the instrument start to be valued over their amplified properties. That is all wrong for me. I want an acoustically alive instrument - but it has to function at least adequately for public small group performances. I looked very closely at Andersen's for a while. His designs are wonderfully understated and confident. But I'm now very close to getting myself a Comins. THe last thing is that I very much like the design - the look - of his instruments. Not too much of the Art Deco thing - but still more traditional than modern. And his binding etc. is just amazing...
I'd love to hear more about what you have found out Spiral in your research. I think your suggestion about attending the show is an excellent one.
I plan to get an instrument through a dealer rather than direct from the maker - that way I'll have two or three days to try it before I have to commit to it. (And its a bit cheaper).
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Like I said, I had a 1990 L5 CES. It was a great guitar, but I was always wanting a fully acoustic archtop with a floating pickup. I also wanted a wider neck, I found the 1 11/16 nut & 2" string spacing at the saddle a little to tight for fingerstyle playing. I got Mark to build me one with a neck to my specifications (1 3/4 nut, 2 1/4 string spacing). I know there are some opinions that a fully acoustic archtop with a floater is very feedback prone & thin sounding when amplified. I have not found this to be true with the Campellone. It is at least as good with feedback as my L5 was, and might even be a bit better. I also don't find the tone thin at all. To me it sounds much more acoustic when amplified (in a good way) than the L5, but the bass is very tight & nice & punchy, I thought my L5 could get a little muddy in the low end at times. Originally Posted by Groyniad
Of course, I really love the pure acoustic tone. It has a very nice, dry, woody punch & a nice tight, punchy bass. When I just play at home it is always unplugged. I gig with this guitar a lot, it is especially good in an acoustic trio I play with, great for low key restaurant type gigs. I also play it in small group settings (with a drummer) and have played wedding type gigs in larger reception halls, although for outdoor gigs or if I really needed to get a lot of volume I'll go with my semi-hollow.
The workmanship is impeccable and Mark was very easy to work with. His price is also very reasonable for a hand made to-order carved archtop. I was lucky enough to have a friend who had one, so I was able to play one before taking the plunge. I like his traditional styling, basically an L5 the way Gibson used to make them. There is a slight art deco vibe (which I like) but it is not too in your face (like some of the Montelone stuff).
I don't know if you've ever seen this interview with Mark, but it will give you a feel for his philosophy.
https://www.premierguitar.com/Magazi...Wood_Sing.aspx
I made a few videos of some fingerstyle playing with the Campellone. They were recorded acoustic only with just my webcam mic, which was probably 3+ feet from my guitar. The guitar was only a few months old when I recorded them, I think that the guitar sounds even warmer now (about 1 year later). I'm using Elixir nanoweb electric nickel roundwound, 13-56 (I make a custom set using a 10-46 and then buying a single 56 & toss out the 10).
I know I sound like an add for Campellone, but I'm just a very satisfied customer. Hope this helps, good luck with your search.
Anyway, here are the vids, excuse the mistakes,
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Hey thanks for your post. The video really helps me a get a sense of the instrument - its beautifully clear - a dry, but full bottom end, and lots of depth and softness in the higher registers. It sounds very responsive.
I'm particularly interested to hear that you are giggin successfully with this instrument. This is my main concern - I don't want to get a fabulous solid wood handmade instrument if I can't gig with it. Gigging means, in the main, small jazz groups up to quartets and quintets but sometimes duos with bass etc. I'm drawn to instruments with built in pickups because I have some sense that the amplified sound will be fuller or richer and that feedback will be somewhat reduced. If I could use a floater that opens up a lot of possibilities. I'm currently stressing about whether I have to get a smaller 16'' as a concession to feedback and public performance issues.
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Well, for breakfast, I recommend the Serveuses Sexy Originally Posted by billkath
Wait...there's fun nights out to be had in Canada? Who knew!!!
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I researched Campellone guitars quite a bit several months ago and everything I could find indicated that they are fantastic guitars. Here is the link to that thread... https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...-gorgeous.html Originally Posted by Groyniad
I am also more fond of humbucker guitars and found these two clips of a Campellone Deluxe with humbuckers. Here is a quote from the guitarist taken from one of the video comments...
It's a Campellone Deluxe: 17" wide, 20&1/2" body length, 3" rim, 25" scale fingerboard. The custom option on my Deluxe is a built-in humbucker pickup, tone + volume controls and an input jack also built in. Sort of like the feel of a Gibson Johnny Smith but much more balanced (doesn't have that big headstock) and with a more open tone where each note rings clear and is balanced throughout the entire range of the instrument.
Cheers,
SteveLast edited by Steve Z; 12-07-2010 at 01:20 AM.
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Check out Mark Campellone and Jim Triggs. Both offer first rate instruments at prices more affordable than many other high end luthiers. But are out of the Gibson school though, and you wrote you wanted something different from Gibson .....
I recently had Jim Triggs (and his son Ryan who is working with him) make me a Stromberg Master 400 "hommage" and it's a magnificent instrument. Lots of depth and butter in the tone - none of the sometimes throuty and metallic sound many modern archtops have - but still a bite in the treble. In addition it's a real work of art to look at. First class workmanship. (check it out here: https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...im-triggs.html ). Jim is very accomodating to personal and even ideosyncratic wishes from the customer. Mark Campellone offers more standardized instruments.
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@Ron
Nice guitar and a nice job on the tunes.
My 2 cents. Buy a Campellone. You wont regret it. If you're near NJ, I just had a look at Golden Age's site. He's got stock on Campellone's, Comin's and Buscarino's. He may or may not have a Triggs. So I would advise you to go there and test drive 'em
However, I'm more inclined to ask you other questions first.
Why a custom carved , expensive box to play out? If I was gigging regularly I would be looking for a good laminate like a Sadowsky. Laminates handle the rigor of playing out better.
When I was gigging more way back when , I used a HR custom or an ES350t to gig with. Both laminates and both sounded great. If the gig was close to home and the weather was nice I might break out the Super 400 or one of my custom oval hole archies. But not regularly
What do you use now?
What's your budget? If you don't really have one I would tell you to get a Jim Hall model and a Campellone Standard. You'd be at about $8200 and have two guitars . Leave the Campellone at home or for recording and gig with the JH
Where are you from? I'm sure someone on th eforum can find a good place for you to check out archtops live and in person.
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There are so many great archtop builders nowadays. We can all tout our favorites, but narrowing in on the specific traits you want out of the guitar can help match you up with a certain builder. Although most builders can construct a guitar to match your unique requests. I went with Bryant Trenier because of his reputation and passion for building in the true spirit of James D'Aquisto. As you can probably gather by my name on the Forum, I like D'Aquisto's work a great deal.
I would suggest contacting John Stewart and Larry Wexer. Not only are they extremely knowledgeable archtop dealers, they're both great guitarists and very nice guys. They should be able to help steer you in the right direction. Good luck and enjoy the process.
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Hi Groyniad (-: Originally Posted by Groyniad
I hope this helps, or is the type of feedback you were looking for.
I met, and spoke with Bill Comins about 3 years ago, at the Phila Guitar Show.
He was a pleasure to talk to, and his guitars on display, sounded and looked top notch!
If I had been in the market for a new guitar at that time, I would've pulled the trigger, on the spot, for his Chester Avenue model.
As far as advantages/disadvantages of a custom build, some good points have already been made. One being, you don't get to hear it until completion.
Of course, as you mentioned, you could buy a guitar (used or new) already completed by a custom builder, but, as also previously mentioned, there are so many quality archtop luthiers. Will you find a guitar located close enough to you, to try out before purchase?
Decide if your individual needs require a one on one custom build.
If the answer to a custom build is yes, then I suggest choosing a builder as close to you as possible. For two reasons, one, it will be possible for you to make trips to his(or her) shop during the building process, if necessary. Second, if any tweaking or repairs are needed, you can make an appointment, and,(sometimes) have the changes made while you wait (or watch :-).
I can only recommend builders that I have had dealings with.
1)-Jim Triggs
Triggs Guitars
I own a Triggs San Salvador archtop (which is phenomenal!)
He is in Kansas, I believe.
I have exchanged emails with him. Jim always answers quickly, and is very helpful. His Prices are far below a lot of custom builders.
2)- Dale Unger
American Archtop Guitars - Handcrafted by Dale Unger
I used to own a Martin CF-1, which was designed and signed by Dale.
(another incredible guitar)
Dale is in Stroudsburg, PA.
I have spoken with Dale on the phone (he actually answers himself).
I was going to have Dale build a guitar for me, but at the time he was so backed up, he convinced me to buy a CF-1. Which I did not regret. Dale's pricing is also, more than resonable.
3)-Bill Comins
Comins Guitars
Already mentioned. Philadelphia,PA.
4)- Victor Baker
http://www.victorbakerguitars.com/index2.php#/home/
Victor Baker Guitars
Victor used to be in Phila, then moved to Brooklyn NY, and is now in the process of moving to Astoria,Queens.
You can see a video scrapbok of the guitar Victor built for me here.
http://www.victorbakerguitars.com/index2.php#/text_5/
I could write for pages on what an outstanding person, and builder, Victor is, but that is for a different thread.
I chose Victor because he was close to where I live, but more importantly, because he is a professional, performing, Jazz Guitarist.
His experience as a professional player gives him insight into subtleties in the building process that allow him to create an extremely player friendly instrument.
Victor is also a Composer and Producer.
Anyway, That's my 25cents. (I figured I wrote a little more than 2cents )
Good Luck, It's a lot of fun designing and having a guitar built for you!
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Thanks Wyatt - that was just what I was looking for.
I agree about chosing a maker who lives close - but this does limit you - what if you don't quite like his offerings as much as someone who lives at the other end of the country?
I think I've been convinced by Comins because of the way he blends tradidtional and modern elements. All the great makers are doing this blending in one way or another - Triggs and Campellone are staying very close to original Gibson concepts - Andersen, for example, moves quite a long way from that template. From what I've heard Bill Comins instruments can compete with the very best in terms of build quality and sound - and they're renowned for having a warm and mellow tone rather than a very bright tone - and I find his design very appealing. I usually don't like decorated instruments but I just love what he is doing with the wooden binding on neck, headstock and body. Andersen's designs are fabulous too - but perhaps a little too austere and minimalist. WHilst I love the art deco look of the old guitars I think I'd rather get beyond that on a contemporary instrument...
I think I'm going to use the 48 hour approval period to give myself a chance to try out the instruments.
I'm very interested to hear how positive about Jim Triggs work. If I end up not like the Comins I might well get in touch with Jim....
Thanks again!Last edited by Groyniad; 10-22-2012 at 12:39 AM.
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Not sure how many people know this, but Bill Comins is the luthier for the US handmade D'angelico line coming out soon, if not already available. I played the prototype at the Summer NAMM and it was really nice. My understanding, from what I can remember when I talked with Bill, is that he is making the body/neck and Heritage guitars is going to be doing the finished.
The Comins build US D'Angelico may be a great way to acquire a Comins guitar while possible spending a little less money.
Cheers,
Steve
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If you go for a new , custom Triggs ask him to leave off the S on the end (or maybe an apostraphy) Originally Posted by Groyniad
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Hey, guitars get shipped around the world every day. Originally Posted by Groyniad
I just got lucky having Victor Baker only 1hr away!
Your decision on which builder to use, of course, is made on the basis of the total package of what's important to you.
Bill's guitars are among the best being made anywhere!
You will be more than satisfied with a Comins!
The new D'Angelico guitar company is only 45min from me, and yes, they are working with Bill Comins. I spoke with the owners at a local guitar show and they feel very blessed to have Bill on board. Originally Posted by Steve Z
I played a couple of the new D'A's at a local dealers shop, and I was very impressed (for the price), and these weren't the ones by Bill.
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Thanks for the comments guys! I'm getting a 17'' Comins with a built in pickup - a Classic - it should be arriving tomorrow!! I do not collect guitars so this is not an experience I've had very often. I'm pretty damn excited.
I've been told that I need to wait 24 hours before I open the case to let the guitar aclimatize. That is going to be tough - but at this time of the year its a very different temperature outside than inside, so I'd better be patient.
I'd love to see pics of your Jim Triggs. How does it handle amplification? Does it have a built in pickup? Does it have a boomy bottom end or is it even in volume from low to high...?
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@Wyatt
I also own the San Salvador and CF-1. I am continually amazed at the sound and the feel of the Martin/American Archtop. I would love to try one of Dale's solid wood guitars someday.
@Groyniad
Congrats! That is a big deal. As always, post your thoughts and clips if possible. It will help others in your situation. There isn't a ton of real user feedback in such a niche market.
It sounds like you had your mind made up before you started the thread, but honestly, that is good. Because if you had taken one of our recommendations, you would have ended up with an equally great guitar, but it wasn't necessarily your decision, and you would have wondered about the Comins until you eventually just bought one. Trust me on this.
Generally, most hand-made guitars in this price range ($3,500+) are going to be great. They are all just a different flavor of great. I've never heard anyone slag off a luthier as being a jerk. Anytime someone mentions one by name it's always "they were so nice and knowledgeable!" which just goes to show that it takes a special kind of person to be a luthier.
I guess my point is, it was hard to go wrong and congratulations.
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I wasn't sure what I was going to do when I started the thread - I was very close to committing myself but hadn't.
What I found hardest was getting any sense of the sort of sound the various handmade instruments were going to produce. The clips on this thread of the Campellone with the built in pickup were very revealing. You can really hear what's distinctive about that instrument - pure L5 magic. Lots of richness but, overall, punch and silvery clarity is the striking feature. If you look at some lessons from Steve Herberman on YouTube you can hear the Comins sound very clearly. Its much rounder and fuller and less punchy and silvery. My wife said it sounded more like a classical guitar, and I think that's right.
In the end I felt more drawn to this Comins sound. It's less readily recognizeable - not so iconic - I think that helps as a player because it doesn't push you towards a particular style of playing.
SO the thread really helped me make a final decision in favour of the Comins.
I do LOVE that Campellone fifties sound though...
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Oh, and Spiral - there's an amazing Dale Unger guitar on ebay at the moment - or there was yesterday anyway. Its solid...
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Originally Posted by Groyniad
And that's all that matters! Good luck with your new guitar. We will of course be waiting to see pictures. Nothing like good guitar picture to get your day going
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Congrats!!! It's feeding the excitment that makes us want to play more! Originally Posted by Groyniad
Waiting time to open the case is all relative. 24hrs was recommended just to be safe. It's the lacquer finish that is most in danger of cracking(checking) due to a rapid temperature change. Originally Posted by Groyniad
If your new guitar shipped overnight (which is always my prefered method for a guitar), You will be safe in 5-8hrs.
No matter how long you decide to wait do not just unlatch and open rapidly. First undo the latches about 2hrs prior to opening. Lift the top slightly an hour later. 1/2hr before fully opening, lightly fan the top.
When my Wes L-5 arrived they told me to wait only 2-3 hrs, but to use those instructions for a slow opening.
Guys(and Girls) play out every day, after travelling with their guitar. They can't wait for hours to open the case. But, they do use the "slow open" method.
Well, It's a San Salvador with a twist! Originally Posted by Groyniad
It's exactly the same as a San Salvador(size,hardware,scale)
but it's called "The Triggs Turquoise Diamond"
It's sort of a hybrid between a Gibson Trini Lopez, and a San Salvador!
It's 100% acoustic, with a floating Kent Armstrong pickup.
It even came with a second pickguard so you can remove the pickup.
Then, I guess, you would call it "San Trini L-7" hybrid (-:
The volume that comes out of those two diamond shaped holes is unbelieveable, and that pickup is excellent through my Genz Benz Black Pearl 112, or through my Roland AC-60 (two of the most underated and affordable amps on the market, IMHO)
I guess you could say it has a "boomy" bottom, but I have always adjusted what I want in a particular guitar with string gauges.
This Triggs is my "Go To" guitar.
Here is a pic of all three-- Victor Baker 335, Wes L-5, Triggs Turquoise Diamond
The acoustic sound of the CF-1 was amazing. Not suprising since it is a Martin. Originally Posted by spiral
I sold mine only because the neck radius was just a hair too flat for me, and the string spacing just a hair wider than my other guitars (more like an acoustic than a jazz box). I had to adjust too much, if I hadn't played it in a while. If it was the only guitar I played, it wouldn't have been a problem.
If you are happy with the neck I would stick with the CF-1. When I spoke to Dale on the phone we had a very interesting conversation about solid vs laminate tops. He admitted to having second thoughts on solid carved tops being superior to a laminate top. This being due to technolgical advancements in laminate production (ie. better glue and thinner laminate). This combination allows for better transmission from the bridge, to the top, and into the body cavity, also greater strength, durability, and less mass(weight). I can attest to this having owned the CF-1. That guitar was light as a bird, and the acoustic sound was far superior to any solid top archtop i've played. If the neck on the CF-1 had been the same specs as my other guitars, I never would have sold it!
Here is my favorite site for Jazz Box eye candy! Originally Posted by Groyniad
Right now they have three Ungers, two Campellones, and a Comins.
archtop.com: Current Inventory- Acoustic and Electric Guitars
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For more archtop eye candy check out John Stewart and Larry Wexer's sites.
I especially recommend looking at the sold section on John's site. Some amazing guitars can be seen there.
Fine Archtop Jazz Guitars For Sale
Laurence Wexer, Ltd. - Fine Fretted Instruments
Enjoy!
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Thanks. Looks really nice. Though, I like the bare-bones look of his normal spruce natural guitars. Plus i don't have $6k. Originally Posted by Groyniad
BTW i'm very happy you made a decision. I can't tell you the hours i have put into looking for a guitar (for almost a year now). I'm down to the Campellone or a McCarthy Skylark. As you get on with your life, and are enjoying the Comins, strum a EbMaj7 in solidarity for me.
Yeah i'm with you there. I posted this in another thread: "I got a chance at Golden Age to try a 'real' Dale Unger American Archtop, and found the sound to be very close if not identical [to the CF-1] ... the only thing that bummed me out was that i liked the neck on the American Archtop over my Martin. The AA neck was much thicker. That is my only complaint though." So yeah, i like the beefier neck of the Unger-made American Archtops. They are much more substantial and closer to a vintage gibson thickness, much like the Campellone. I have fat fingers so i enjoy the 1 3/4" nut. Originally Posted by wyatt
Last edited by spiral; 12-10-2010 at 03:34 PM.
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Raney and Abersold, great interview.
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