Ibanez Joe Pass JP20

[vinnyv1k]

Those early 80's Fender D'Aquisto's were very nice axes also as well as the GB20. I remember thumbing my nose at them in those days being a Gibson snob till I played one. Back in those days a Japan made guitar was top notch in quality and dirt cheap. They are still very high quality but no longer cheap in price. I guess today's China is yesterday's Japan except China doesn't come close quality wise in guitar making to Japan. I hope I don't anger you Eastman fans as I am sure you will disagree. I guess I am still a bit of a snob. Nothing coming out of China floats my boat including Chinese made Ibby's, Epi's, or Eastmans but don't get me wrong. If you don't have the scratch they are a great choice and value in today's guitar market. Of all the Japan made guitars I played I never played one with a bad neck. Can't say that about USA or China. Japan absolutely knows how to make a great guitar neck and guitars period. Their QC has always been top notch unlike a certain USA brand I love to bash.

[Max405]

Those early 80's Fender D'Aquisto's were very nice axes also as well as the GB20. I remember thumbing my nose at them in those days being a Gibson snob till I played one. Back in those days a Japan made guitar was top notch in quality and dirt cheap. They are still very high quality but no longer cheap in price. I guess today's China is yesterday's Japan except China doesn't come close quality wise in guitar making to Japan. I hope I don't anger you Eastman fans as I am sure you will disagree. I guess I am still a bit of a snob. Nothing coming out of China floats my boat including Chinese made Ibby's, Epi's, or Eastmans but don't get me wrong. If you don't have the scratch they are a great choice and value in today's guitar market. Of all the Japan made guitars I played I never played one with a bad neck. Can't say that about USA or China. Japan absolutely knows how to make a great guitar neck and guitars period. Their QC has always been top notch unlike a certain USA brand I love to bash.

One of the things I regret that I've done around here was judge you unfairly when you spoke your mind (and the truth) about Gibson. I am still a diehard Gibson fanboy but I TOTALLY agree with you that they leave a lot to be desired.
Japanese Guitars (at least the ones I've owned) are amazing, and they are amazing for as long as they are taken care of. This 35 year old Guitar is freakishly new as was my 28 year old GB10. They perform better than I ever could.
Great point!
Joe D

[Max405]

Guys
this guitar is amazing. Once I got used to playing it between the pickup and the neck, I am realizing that it sounds unlike any other guitar I've ever played. It sounds like a hollow body archtop stratocaster with the neck and middle pickup on and the tone set to 5. The warmth is so deep and clear. What a guitar.
video to come.
Joe D

[Guitarbean25]

Guys
this guitar is amazing. Once I got used to playing it between the pickup and the neck, I am realizing that it sounds unlike any other guitar I've ever played. It sounds like a hollow body archtop stratocaster with the neck and middle pickup on and the tone set to 5. The warmth is so deep and clear. What a guitar.
video to come.
Joe D

Are you playing with a pick or fingerstyle?

Agreed on Japanese guitars.

[Cunamara]

Joe Pass played the JP20 with his fingers between the neck and the pickup. IMO, that is the sweet spot for getting the best tone out of these guitars.

It is good that we have this thread out there so people who do an internet search can read the truth. The opinion of a top notch jazz guitarist like Joe DeNisco regarding the JP 20 is of far more value than the opinion of countless hack guitarists who have condemned this guitar without having actually played one over some percieved wrong pickup placement ( in actual fact the pickup placement is almost in the same spot as a Gibson 175).

It's not. It's about the same distance from the end of the fretboard as an ES-175 but the JP20 has 2 or 3 extra frets (depending on what era ES-175 you use for a comparison. That moves the pickup towards the bridge somewhere between 3/4 to 1 1/8". The physics of it is that you'll get a comparably brighter and thinner tone, which you can hear in many Joe Pass videos. However, you might really dig that sound and that's all that matters.

Not everyone has to sound like Jim Hall or Pat Martino. Joe, Grant Green, Peter Bernstein, Johnny Smith, Django, etc., all have a pretty bright and usually clear/clean sound. A lot of players sound great with that kind of sound. I don't happen to be one of 'em. 😔 That said I have always been really attracted to this model- the proportions, the way the burst was done, the wide/thin neck, the connection to Joe. Very appealing! I've got a GB10 from 1981 and Ibanez's design, construction, fit and finish were second to none then.

Enjoy your axe!

[Max405]

Are you playing with a pick or fingerstyle?

Agreed on Japanese guitars.

Gb25, primarily with a pick.

It's not. It's about the same distance from the end of the fretboard as an ES-175 but the JP20 has 2 or 3 extra frets (depending on what era ES-175 you use for a comparison. That moves the pickup towards the bridge somewhere between 3/4 to 1 1/8". The physics of it is that you'll get a comparably brighter and thinner tone, which you can hear in many Joe Pass videos. However, you might really dig that sound and that's all that matters.

Not everyone has to sound like Jim Hall or Pat Martino. Joe, Grant Green, Peter Bernstein, Johnny Smith, Django, etc., all have a pretty bright and usually clear/clean sound. A lot of players sound great with that kind of sound. I don't happen to be one of 'em.  That said I have always been really attracted to this model- the proportions, the way the burst was done, the wide/thin neck, the connection to Joe. Very appealing! I've got a GB10 from 1981 and Ibanez's design, construction, fit and finish were second to none then.

Enjoy your axe!

cunamera, the physics part of it is precisely where all logic crashes and burns. This guitar is naturally brighter I agree. But it's not at thinner. It's deeper. It sustains notes like a lawnmower. There is a misconception about this guitar which is Stringswingers point. It doesn't help matters that some of Joe's recordings with the guitar sounded a little twangy. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that was no fault of the guitars. That Music man amp he used might have had a hand in it too. This guitar has a unique sound that is absolutely not thin. Like I said, I has a hollowbody Strat quality on the neck and middle pickup with the tone set to 5.
You should live with one. I am convinced you will be surprised. I know this because I fully expected it to sound like you thought it should sound. Even though I would have been ok with it because of all the other cool factors you cited (burst, connection to Joe, the neck and the proportions), I really didn't expect it to sound this way. And to be honest, I have brighter chrome 12's on it and I am probably going to let them wear out before I change them. Right now I don't want change a single thing about this JP20.
I have a wall full of amazing guitars. This one is now one of my favorites.
Joe D.

[vinnyv1k]

The JP20 is a super cool looking axe but I can see why Jimmy D was so furious at JP though everyone steals from everyone. Where do you think John D got his archtop ideas from ? Bottom line the one man we all need to bow down to is Lloyd Loar. Joe, very happy you are really digging your new axe. Hoping BooBoo is a success story also.

[Archie]

Gb25, primarily with a pick.


cunamera, the physics part of it is precisely where all logic crashes and burns. This guitar is naturally brighter I agree. But it's not at thinner. It's deeper. It sustains notes like a lawnmower. There is a misconception about this guitar which is Stringswingers point. It doesn't help matters that some of Joe's recordings with the guitar sounded a little twangy. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that was no fault of the guitars. That Music man amp he used might have had a hand in it too. This guitar has a unique sound that is absolutely not thin. Like I said, I has a hollowbody Strat quality on the neck and middle pickup with the tone set to 5.
You should live with one. I am convinced you will be surprised. I know this because I fully expected it to sound like you thought it should sound. Even though I would have been ok with it because of all the other cool factors you cited (burst, connection to Joe, the neck and the proportions), I really didn't expect it to sound this way. And to be honest, I have brighter chrome 12's on it and I am probably going to let them wear out before I change them. Right now I don't want change a single thing about this JP20.
I have a wall full of amazing guitars. This one is now one of my favorites.
Joe D.

The guitar for its size really does have strong tone, not as heavy as the GB10 not as muddy as some Es-175's. Its a great design and a great guitar

Do a video Joe, that will put this debate to bed. Should have done one with mine :-(

[Cunamara]

cunamera, the physics part of it is precisely where all logic crashes and burns. This guitar is naturally brighter I agree. But it's not at thinner. It's deeper. It sustains notes like a lawnmower. There is a misconception about this guitar which is Stringswingers point. It doesn't help matters that some of Joe's recordings with the guitar sounded a little twangy. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that was no fault of the guitars. That Music man amp he used might have had a hand in it too. This guitar has a unique sound that is absolutely not thin. Like I said, I has a hollowbody Strat quality on the neck and middle pickup with the tone set to 5.

You should live with one. I am convinced you will be surprised. I know this because I fully expected it to sound like you thought it should sound. Even though I would have been ok with it because of all the other cool factors you cited (burst, connection to Joe, the neck and the proportions), I really didn't expect it to sound this way. And to be honest, I have brighter chrome 12's on it and I am probably going to let them wear out before I change them. Right now I don't want change a single thing about this JP20.

I have a wall full of amazing guitars. This one is now one of my favorites.
Joe D.

"Sustains notes like a lawnmower!" That might be the best simile in the history of the forum!

Well, there is more to guitar tone than the pickup placement and your experience with this guitar seems to highlight that.

And, jeez, guys- stop showing beautiful photos of these! I am trying to avoid GAS!!!!

[Max405]

I just did one real Quick.

[cgratham]

Outstanding Joe,

Love the sound; love the playing; love the wall! Thanks for sharing.

Cheers, Chris

[Max405]

Here another one. I'm on a roll..
I chose this one because it had less clipping.

[mr quick]

Wow, that is not at all what I expected from that guitar. Its tone is both clear and full, and very... "woody", for lack of a more specific term. Great sound, I can feel a case of GAS-itis coming on. Beautiful playing as always, Joe.

[vinnyv1k]

Very nice Joe !!! You have a little Al DiMeola coursing through your veins. :-)
That axe has a very nice clarity to it.

[Greentone]

Joe,

Now, that's the way the JP-20 is supposed to sound. Woody, with a good, full, electric tone. Great playing, too. I enjoyed both clips.

How about those pictures from Archtop Heaven? The finish on the JP-20 in those photos is without equal, IMO.

Ibanez was just getting it right, at that point. My bass player 25 years ago was working at a music store that had a second-hand JP-20 (mint) for sale for $900. At the time, I thought it was a tad high. I played the guitar, however, and was completely blown away by the quality, playability, and the sound. The only other archtop in that era that came close to being as playable was the Fender D'Aquisto.

Why I hesitated I will never know. I should have traded one of my other guitars on the spot, or something. D'oh.

[Max405]

Greentone, that means a lot to me coming from you.
I really appreciate it. The guitar makes beautiful sounds that I'm not even expecting so in a way, it makes me better.
its been a great experience for sure.
Thanks again buddy.
Joe D.

[Stringswinger]

Joe, your inspired solo playing will inspire me on my solo jazz guitar gig this afternoon. Great stuff. Now you know what I know about the JP-20. It is truly a great guitar. Every time I read a negative review of the JP-20, I look to the sky (like you know who) and say "Father forgive them for them know not what they have never played"

That guitar found the right owner! Joe Pass himself would agree I am sure...

[neatomic]

nice tone and playing…those ss chromes actually add some top end clarity thats nice…i'd bet the polepieces are at the 29th fret harmonic..and by picking between the pup and the neck you're right over the 24th fret node..which gives chime and clarity..physics aside.. good stuff…enjoy


cheers

[Esko]

Thank you Joe for those videos, what a sound and playing.

What kind of amp setup you used in them ?

[Max405]

Thanks Esko,
The interface is a Zoom G3. No amp Simulation. Flat EQ. Just a touch of reverb.
The guitar did everything.
Joe D.

Thank you Joe for those videos, what a sound and playing.

What kind of amp setup you used in them ?

[Max405]

Hey Guys,
Just a small update.
I am still loving this Guitar. There is nothing about it that I don't love.
I started Learning, "I Cant Get Started", another Joe Pass arrangement. Because Joe did most of the Virtuoso#4 album on an acoustic Guitar, I decided that I would play it on my L7c. Well, This past weekend, We went away for a couple of days and I decided to take the JP with me. I learned that doing Joe Pass stuff on the JP is actually a lot easier than my other guitars. Just the geometry of it in every way goes perfectly with Joe's arrangements.
I have to admit (and I know you guys will think I am crazy) I love the acoustic sound of this Guitar. I am thinking of Modifying it a little to take a Definity P'up with an endpin jack in Stereo. This guitar has grabbed my attention and wont let go. Its the ultimate players guitar. I am so happy I bought it.

Joe D.

[Greentone]

Joe,

I Can't Get Started is a terrific chart. Have fun. Joe Pass played that one on his ES-175, believe it or not. The engineer, apparently lost the track with the electric guitar signal, but had Joe's guitar mic'd as a safety track. That ended up being "THE" track on both Virtuoso #1 and #4--same session. Unbelievable how little attention to detail was given to jazz recording in the 70s--basically, roll tape...send to the pressing company.

It just shows you how lively those 50s-60s plywood Gibsons were that production albums could be produced with the 175 as an acoustic guitar. Just unbelievable. Comfortable guitar, though.

By the way, I think you could do this with your JP-20. There is plenty of acoustic energy there.

[Max405]

Greentone,
That is amazing behind the scenes information! Thanks GT.
You are right, that is a fantastic arrangement. I am having a blast while I pull out the rest of my hair.
I understand why he made his stuff so difficult. He wanted anyone who copied his stuff to end up looking just like him!

JD

Joe,

I Can't Get Started is a terrific chart. Have fun. Joe Pass played that one on his ES-175, believe it or not. The engineer, apparently lost the track with the electric guitar signal, but had Joe's guitar mic'd as a safety track. That ended up being "THE" track on both Virtuoso #1 and #4--same session. Unbelievable how little attention to detail was given to jazz recording in the 70s--basically, roll tape...send to the pressing company.

It just shows you how lively those 50s-60s plywood Gibsons were that production albums could be produced with the 175 as an acoustic guitar. Just unbelievable. Comfortable guitar, though.

By the way, I think you could do this with your JP-20. There is plenty of acoustic energy there.

[Max405]

Sorry guys, I couldn't resist. I love this guitar..

[Max405]