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I'm not sure whether this has already been covered in a specific thread, but in my quest for a qualitative combo (tube or tranny) I'd like to have your feed back.
So far I tested and shorlisted Blues Junior II.
So my question is:
Would those combos be good partner for my archtop + floater in order to get this sweet dark & clean jazz tone I'm looking for?
Thanks
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02-24-2011 09:39 AM
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TM 60 yes. TM 30 no.
The TM 30 is very "boxy" as they say.
If the TM 60 is too large, then I'd go to a Cube 40XL over the TM 30 by a long shot.
The TM 60 is a great amp. A little pricey new, but a very good deal used.
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Some comments here on my experience with the TM30, which are not meant to contradict NiAg, but may give you a little more insight:
I replaced my Cube 30X with the TM30 and much prefer the latter. I love it for the range of tones I get from it. The three band active EQ control is very flexible, allowing you to get the most out of your guitar's natural tone. Yes, I do use it to get a smooth "classic" jazz tone, but its real strength is in the range of "break-up "thru to "mild overdrive" sounds it can produce. Hence if you are looking for just the one tone, it may not be your best option.
I play a thin-line semi with 2 body mounted humbuckers (Godin Flat Five), which clearly isn't the best comparison to the archtop + floating pickup that you play, so NiAg's advice may be sound in terms of going for one of the larger combos. To be honest, I haven't tried the TM 60 or Cube 40, so can't comment on the comparison, but the TM30 is a small package and it surely has the acoustic characteristics of a small package, which is what I guess is meant by "sounding boxy".
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Through a buddy loan I have stumbled over a Fender Super Champ XD.
Normally I wouldn't have given this amp a second glance, but this one has been put into a JD Newell Tolex cabinet with a 12" speaker in it and it just sings!
It's only 15 watts with 2 6V6 power tubes, but it does sound sweet and it has very usable delays, reverbs, chorus, tremolo etc.
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Thanks for your insights.
I'll have to find a shop which could demo both models, but based on comments and specs, I have the feeling the TM60 might be the right option:
12" speaker, two channels, power to spare, not too pricey on the second hand market ...
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>>> not meant to contradict NiAg, but may give you a little more insight:
Hey, what's the point of discussion if there are no alternate viewpoints? Contradict as much as you see fit - it only helps in my opinion.
Mambosun - Just noticed your address. 20 years ago I worked in La Defense and lived in Ville d'Avray. Seems like several lifetimes ago. During a transit strike I bought an amp at Lead Guitars (Rue Pigalle, not a lovely neighborhood) and then realised I may have to walk all the way back to Ville d'Avray. Not a cab in sight. Then it rained of course,...
Anyway, good luck with the amp choices.
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Hi Niag
Originally Posted by NiAg
What a funny story... and a very long walk indeed. Hope the amp did'nt suffer too much during the rainy trip back to Ville d'Avray.
If you happen to come back to Pigalle, lead guitar is still there, and also some exotics ladies hanging around...
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Thanks ! Originally Posted by Flyin' Brian
I 'll have to demo the super champ xd as well.
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The trademark 60 is a really good amp.Haven't tried the 30.
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I found a TM30 limited edition with Weber alnico speaker in the second hand market.
Is this limited edition a significant improvement over the standard version?
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I don't know the TM60 or 30. I do have a Cube 30x but I grew tired of it. It's not bad, but the reverb is awful and the tone.. well.. a little uninspiring.
But if you are in the market for a transistor amp, try to find and old Session Rockette 30 or a Sessionette 75. They should be available in the second hand market in France. They go for somewhere between 130 - 175 euros, have a good Celstion speaker and quality spring-reverb.
I have the Rockette 30 and find it to be a revelation tone-wise! Very clear and open with good definition and great responsiveness or "punch". But never sharp or harsh. It uses MosFets and to my ear those behave very tube-like. Very nice jazz tone with archtops and semis!
And best of all: they are small and portable but blow away a drummer if needed (I never need that, but still...)!Last edited by Little Jay; 02-25-2011 at 05:43 AM.
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I personally would prefer the Blues Junior or, even better, a Fender Princeton Reverb re-issue, but if you can try out a Trademark, do it.
I owned a TM 60 about ten years ago. It's a nice amp, very thoughtfully designed and well made, but to my ears it just doesn't have the "balls" of a tube amp. At living room / practice volumes it was competent but bland as a clean jazz amp. I think it sounds better as a blues / rock amp at louder settings.
The sound and feel of the TM 60 was kind of like a Peavey Bandit "red stripe," an inexpensive solid state combo that gets good reviews for archtop jazz (I also have a Peavey Bandit "red stripe" and am willing to sell if anybody wants it). OK for archtop jazz but undistinguished; a good spare to keep for emergencies. Between the TM 60 and the Peavey, I liked the TM 60 better, but it also costs more.
For solid state amps, I like my Polytone Mini Brute II better than the TM 60. It is a one trick pony that, for archtop jazz, sounds better and is also smaller and lighter than the Peavey or the TM 60. I see them on eBay for a reasonable price fairly often.
I have never tried or heard a TM 30, either stock or modified, so I offer no opinion.
Bonne chance.
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02-25-2011, 03:03 PM #13Archie Guest
I have a TM30 and a Princeton Reverb Reissue. I haven't noticed the TM30 being "boxy". I have noticed it's loud enough to play with a bass player and drummer. The reverb is quite good, and the amp sounds good clean or just with a bit of crunch. It has a couple of switches to give saturated distorted sounds, but I don't use them. It doesn't do the airy, open clean sounds of the Princeton, but then it cost 1/3 as much.
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[Niag]>>> "boxy" as they say
[newsense]>>> it surely has the acoustic characteristics of a small package, which is what I guess is meant by "sounding boxy".
Yes, that is what I meant with the vague term "boxy"
Foe me, I could not get a decent bottom out of the TM30. Seemingly the size of the total package just wanted to honk midrange when playing clean.
I thought the TM30 (10" speaker) would sound fuller than the erstwhile TM10 (8" speaker), but they both really sounded like the cabinet as much as anything else. Makes you wonder what a Weber 10F150T would sound like, since that is extremely full in a PRRI.
(Edit: Archie - I am running the 10F150T speaker and some very late breakup Mesa 6V6's in my PRRI. Lotsa headroom and huge sound. Really better than any 'original' Princeton I ever heard.)
Clearly, some players do not hear the boxy sound from the TM30. I suspect that this has much to do with playing style and attack as well as their ears. (Meaning, they don't just "think" they sound better than me on the TM30 - they actually do sound better.)Last edited by NiAg; 02-25-2011 at 05:12 PM.
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+1 Originally Posted by Soco
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Hi Niag, Originally Posted by NiAg
I have to share your view about the TM30.
I had the opportunity to spend an hour with my archtop plugged into a TM30 and eventhough I've been fiddling with alll differents settings, I couldn't get rid of the boxy sound neither get a satisfying dark and deep tone with it.
The TM 30 is really cute, cheap, very compact, high degree of WAF, well finished and I wish I could have liked the tone but compared side by side with the BJ, there's no mistake: the TM30 is a small package but sounds tiny, while the BJ has more bottom end and sound more lush to my ears.
I still have to give a try to the TM60.
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The TM60 is a completely different amp. The pre-amp of the TM30 is based on the Sansamp, while the TM60 has it's own pre-amp design.
The TM60 treble and bass are VERY active. You get a great deal of boost out of them when you turn even a little past half-way on the knob. So slight changes are all that is necessary.
The midrange control ("punch" on the clean channel) takes some getting used to. If you need just more midrange, then consider turning down the (again, VERY active) treble and bass down a little, then turning up the volume.
Simply turning up the "punch" will not necessarily give you what you expect in a simple midrange boost.
All in all, the TM60 is about the size of a Princeton reverb, but lighter and with more headroom.
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.... and cheaper ! Originally Posted by NiAg
Thank you for your input.
Moreover, the TM60 should better fit the bill if I plan to gig in small venue with my rock band.
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It sounds like I a trying to sell the TM60, but yes, it will do very well for rock.
The engineers do not make it easy though. The controls on the dirty channel take some getting used to. The midrange is really a serious scoop control, which is very useful but, in my opinion, could have been contoured in a more easy-to-use way.
Also, you can get a great AC 30 sound out of it with plenty of the "weep" control, but again, they make it hard because you need to carefully use the very sensitive treble and midrange controls to get it right.
Terrific amp, but not obvious at first glance. My guess is that with a little better distribution (they are VERY hard to find to try out in the US) they could get over the useful, but not intuitive controls.
OH, and there is a known quirk with some TM60's. If you hear a strange and intermittent cutting out of the sound, it is almost always due to corrosion on the effects loop jack. (I forget if it is the send or the return jack.)
The jack has a switch contact in it that shorts the send to the return when the loop is not used. This contact can become marginal over time.
The solution is to either clean the contact, replace the jack, or (far simpler) just run a short patch cable from the send to the return when you are not using the effects loop. All solutions are cheap, easy, and effective.
Otherwise, they are good sturdy amps.
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The TM60 is a solid work horse. I have used it for all types of gigs from rock to blues to funk to jazz.
For jazz, however, it's sound is a bit too sculpted and doesn't really allow the sound of an archtop to shine. Try a Hennrikson if you're after that.
I have an old TM60. I believe I got it in 1997 or 98 (??) Never been serviced, always reliable and great range of tones.
The reverb on this model is a pain, though. First off it produces an audible humm and is overly sensitive to stage vibration .... in that it can make quite a racket sometimes (that horrible reverb crashing sound).
In terms of overdrive. Lots of choice, but oddly I always opted out for using a Boss Blues Driver on the TM60s channel 1 for crunchy bluesy tones. Then I'd use the TM60 channel 2 for flat out wailing!
I have had so many people comment on my tone while using this amp. So either it's the amp, me or a combo of the two.
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The TM 60 is wonderful for all types of music. I miss mine!
PJ
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My Trademark 60 is the piece of gear I've had the longest. It is an extremely versatile amp but very hard to dial in if you want to use both channels as they share the EQ and each channel is voiced so differently that finding a happy medium can be challenging.
That being said, a very wide range of clean tones can be had from the amp and you should be able to pull almost anything out of it. I'm not saying is a master of all tones, but should be able to get darn near close enough for most purposes. In the jazz realm, Alex Scolnick (in his jazz group, not Testament), Sheryl Bailey, and non other than Les Paul were known users.
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As an update, today I had the opportunity to give a try the Trademark 60 at my Jazz guitar teacher's house.
I tested both clean and gain channels and prefered the later, since it gives the "warm/fat/dark/deep" sound I'm after, quite amazing for a SS amp.
The amp delivers full dynamics from my floater, even at a moderate volume setting.
Clean channel is very transparent but for my taste, doesn't provide an inspiring tone with my jazz box; I guess this might better work with a solid body and a pedal board.
And yes it hummed a bitLast edited by mambosun; 03-31-2011 at 06:03 PM.
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