How different are a 24.75" scale and a 25" scale?

**esherman93** · 06-09-2011, 04:54 PM

I'm looking at buying my first hollowbody guitar. My main guitar right now has a 25.5 inch scale, and I'd like to get something with a little bit shorter of a scale so I don't have to stretch as much. I have the opportunity to buy an Eastman AR805ce, which has a 25" scale. I don't have the opportunity to buy an ES-175, but I've played one and the scale length of 24.75" was really comfortable. Do any of you know if the .25" difference is that noticeable? Opinions and thoughts on the subject are more than welcome. Thanks

TommyD · 06-09-2011, 04:55 PM

A quarter of an inch.

**fep** · 06-09-2011, 05:08 PM

Neck length affects tone... the longer the neck the more "chimey" the tone.

Not sure how much .25 inch affects. Just take a listen, if it sounds good it is good.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 06-09-2011, 05:13 PM

I'm heading the other way -- I'd love to own a 27" scale Soloway Swan.

**esherman93** · 06-09-2011, 05:14 PM

Thanks. If it helps, I'm more concerned about the feel rather than the tone. For example, would gripping chords across 3+ frets on the 25" feel like that much bigger of a stretch than the 24.75"?

**mr. beaumont** · 06-09-2011, 05:15 PM

The only place it's a difference is at the first fret. I don't buy in too far with the "too much of a stretch" or "too crowded" arguements.

Now, the guitars will feel different...the same gauge of strings will be under noticably less tension on a 24.75" scale guitar than it would on a 25 or 25.5"

And furthermore, the guitars will have different tonal characteristics, but that goes without saying--any two guitars will be different...it's up to you if your ears can hear a difference in scale length...

**spiral** · 06-09-2011, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by esherman93

Thanks. If it helps, I'm more concerned about the feel rather than the tone. For example, would gripping chords across 3+ frets on the 25" feel like that much bigger of a stretch than the 24.75"?

FWIW i have small stubby hands and i can't tell the difference between the different scales i have. The neck thickness, nut width, and fret size are a much bigger factor IMO.

**life_with_a_song** · 06-09-2011, 09:54 PM

Personally, I wish they all had a 25.5" scale. Because they don't I will never own an ES-175, another Heritage H575 (have owned two trying to get used to the shorther scale) nor a host of great semi-hollows out there with 24.75" scale lengths.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 06-10-2011, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by life_with_a_song

Personally, I wish they all had a 25.5" scale. Because they don't I will never own an ES-175, another Heritage H575 (have owned two trying to get used to the shorther scale) nor a host of great semi-hollows out there with 24.75" scale lengths.

I prefer the longer scale length, too.

The Heritage Sweet 16 has a 25.5" scale length, or does the carved top and floating pickup not rock your boat?

**Bill C** · 06-10-2011, 01:53 AM

On the guitars I've played/owned I can feel the difference between 25" and 24.75" - I think - maybe other factors are coming into play as well ...

**Pierrot** · 06-10-2011, 02:17 AM

I have a Ibanez GB15, which is 24",75, and a luthier made guitar (Jaen) which is 25".

1) Regarding sound: The Jaen is slightly brighter. As many other construction details are to be evaluated, no conclusion here.

2) Regarding playability: with the 24"75 length, when I reach the upper frets, say fret 18, 19 etc, I feel somewhat uncomfy for my fingers almost don't fit.

I can feel a little difference with the 25" scale length. Not a big difference, indeed, but this subtle increase of space is enough to get more confidence in my playing.

Though, both guitars are almost equally comfy on the first frets.

Just a personal opinion of course;-)
(To each one his/her own fingers, haha)

**life_with_a_song** · 06-10-2011, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I prefer the longer scale length, too.

The Heritage Sweet 16 has a 25.5" scale length, or does the carved top and floating pickup not rock your boat?

Yeah--no floaters for me. I did play a friend's Sweet 16 with a routed-in pickup a few years ago, and it probably needed a set-up, but it just didn't do it for me, either. Nowadays I've settled (back) onto a Tele with a mini-humbucker that really does what I need, and also--of all things--a Godin with a 25.5" scale that does chord-melody beautifully.

**kenbennett** · 06-10-2011, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

The only place it's a difference is at the first fret...

That's like saying that the whole-tone scale and the chromatic scale are only different at the first interval. A whole step, anywhere in the scale, is always twice as long as a half step. On two guitars of different scale lengths, the difference in spacing of any two adjacent frets will be different by the same ratio. Fret spacing of the 25.5" scale is 1.03 times longer than a 24.75 scale no matter which fret you compare. It doesn't matter whether you compare nut to 1st fret, 9th fret to 10th fret, or whatever.

If the same string gauge is used, then the two scale lengths in question, 24.75 and 25.5, are different enough to feel and hear, but close enough to be easily interchangeable. Going to the next higher string gauge on the shorter scale length is just about right to compensate for the difference. In other words, I think that the string tension issue is more noticeable than the fret spacing issue.

**life_with_a_song** · 06-10-2011, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by kenbennett

I think that the string tension issue is more noticeable than the fret spacing issue.

Good explanation. I just know that I feel more cramped, and that therefore it is slightly tougher to chord up around the ninth to twelfth frets, especially given the size of my hands.

**Tom Karol** · 06-10-2011, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by kenbennett

... I think that the string tension issue is more noticeable than the fret spacing issue.

+1

**mr. beaumont** · 06-10-2011, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by kenbennett

That's like saying that the whole-tone scale and the chromatic scale are only different at the first interval. A whole step, anywhere in the scale, is always twice as long as a half step. On two guitars of different scale lengths, the difference in spacing of any two adjacent frets will be different by the same ratio. Fret spacing of the 25.5" scale is 1.03 times longer than a 24.75 scale no matter which fret you compare. It doesn't matter whether you compare nut to 1st fret, 9th fret to 10th fret, or whatever.

If the same string gauge is used, then the two scale lengths in question, 24.75 and 25.5, are different enough to feel and hear, but close enough to be easily interchangeable. Going to the next higher string gauge on the shorter scale length is just about right to compensate for the difference. In other words, I think that the string tension issue is more noticeable than the fret spacing issue.

Exactly.

So the only place that will be a longer stretch than you are accustomed to is at the first fret. Everything else is pretty much just like playing a fret lower than you did before...

**Al_F** · 06-10-2011, 09:43 AM

I can't feel a difference except say in playing a shuffle in F, stretching my pinking up to the fifth takes a little more effort on my stratocaster than the 335.

**kenbennett** · 06-10-2011, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Exactly.

So the only place that will be a longer stretch than you are accustomed to is at the first fret. Everything else is pretty much just like playing a fret lower than you did before...

Now I see what you mean. Very clever, mr. b!

**mr. beaumont** · 06-10-2011, 11:39 AM

I dunno about clever--I think Al summed it up a lot more clearly in one sentence than I did in a paragraph!

TommyD · 06-10-2011, 12:30 PM

Get real. 1/4" divided into 12 frets (because that's what actually happens when a scale is 1/4" longer than another!) ADDS AN AVERAGE OF 0.0208 INCHES TO EACH FRET. That's 2/100ths, or 1/50th of an inch added to the average distance between frets!
And you're telling me that you can feel the difference? Or you want to know if you will notice a difference when you play on a guitar with that difference in scale length?
Maybe for something else to do we can have a discussion about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? And after that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.

Tommy/

**kenbennett** · 06-10-2011, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I dunno about clever--I think Al summed it up a lot more clearly in one sentence than I did in a paragraph!

Would you believe... observant? I just never noticed that a stretch from the first fret is the only one that's longer.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 06-10-2011, 12:37 PM

I don't think it's been mentioned, but I've always assumed Eastmans had a 25" scale because they were copying Benedetto.

**coolvinny** · 06-10-2011, 01:57 PM

I think the biggest effect is that the nut is that much farther away from you, which makes first fret stuff a little more of a stretch (eg playing an Ab7b9 chord as 4x421x) (or worse with the root instead of the b9) with maybe more potentially injurious wrist bend. If not fretting below the 3rd fret, then no noticeable difference.

**fumblefingers** · 06-10-2011, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Exactly.

So the only place that will be a longer stretch than you are accustomed to is at the first fret. Everything else is pretty much just like playing a fret lower than you did before...

Not exactly. you have eliminated a point of reference.

rather, its like you said - everything is like playing a different fret position. in other words all things being equal, it will feel different. so, playing a Cdim7 at the 10th fret will feel different.

the bottom line is that different scale lengths feel different, no matter the size of your hands. whether "different" is acceptable or not is up to you. if you have large hands then short scales wont feel as comfy with some things, and vice versa. if your hands are medium size then... your mileage may vary.

**mr. beaumont** · 06-10-2011, 07:17 PM

Well, sure. It'll feel like one fret lower or higher than usual.

My point is that there's only one place on a 25.5" scale guitar that's gonna be a larger stretch than anything you've done before on a 24.75" if that's what you're used to.