Guitar Synths - The Pat Metheny Sound

**hans halmackenreuter** · 08-02-2011, 09:49 AM

since a year, I'm thinking of getting a guitar-synth. first I wanted to have one in order to play piano an d horns, but yesterday I realized, that the roland gr-55 has got the gr-300 sound. so my question is, does anyone know if the former products ( gr- 20, gr-33, gr-30) do have the same gr-300 aka pat metheny-synth-sound?

**Anandbhat** · 08-02-2011, 11:33 AM

I have a GR-30.Not sure if it has the 'Pat Metheny' patch.I'll be glad to check the manual and let you know.My favorite is the sax patch.Pretty realistic!

**kris** · 08-02-2011, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by hans halmackenreuter

since a year, I'm thinking of getting a guitar-synth. first I wanted to have one in order to play piano an d horns, but yesterday I realized, that the roland gr-55 has got the gr-300 sound. so my question is, does anyone know if the former products ( gr- 20, gr-33, gr-30) do have the same gr-300 aka pat metheny-synth-sound?

I use old Gr-09.
All Roland synth. are OK.

**hans halmackenreuter** · 08-02-2011, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Anandbhat

I have a GR-30.Not sure if it has the 'Pat Metheny' patch.I'll be glad to check the manual and let you know.My favorite is the sax patch.Pretty realistic!

oh that would be kind

,

**hans halmackenreuter** · 08-02-2011, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by kris

I use old Gr-09.
All Roland synth. are OK.

you're right about that

**mongrel** · 08-02-2011, 02:51 PM

I have a Roland GR 500 synth and guitar ("controller") circa 1978, the first analog one. I got so frustrated with it several winters ago that I gutted all the electronics from the guitar. It has been on my project list since then. Any of the digital ones should do you nicely. Scofield gets some decent synth effects from the Microsynth that is just a pedal.

**hans halmackenreuter** · 08-02-2011, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by mongrel

I have a Roland GR 500 synth and guitar ("controller") circa 1978, the first analog one. I got so frustrated with it several winters ago that I gutted all the electronics from the guitar. It has been on my project list since then. Any of the digital ones should do you nicely. Scofield gets some decent synth effects from the Microsynth that is just a pedal.

i've considered this option aswell and if you ask me, the microsynth is a nice pedal, but it hasn't got the sounds i'm looking for. and besides, those cheap sounding synthi strings from the roland synth are so cool...

i wouldn't like to miss them
i thank you for your recommendation, but the possibilities of a midi-system is cinvincing me

**Anandbhat** · 08-02-2011, 11:12 PM

Here's a link to the owners manual for the Gr-30.The Patch list is approx around page 108 or so.Hope this helps:

Roland U.S. - Owners Manuals

I midi into my Yamaha QS300 for better patches,especially pads.

**ronjazz** · 08-02-2011, 11:33 PM

It may not be called the Metheny patch, but both the GR09 and the GR30 have that sound in the presets. In any event, it's not difficult to make. Don't ignore the ability to control other synths and samplers as well, and to plug into your computer and watch it instantly transcribe your playing or your arrangements.

**kris** · 08-03-2011, 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by hans halmackenreuter

you're right about that

Roland Vg-99 has Pat sounds I think.It is different box but with midi also.
Best
Kris

**hans halmackenreuter** · 08-03-2011, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Anandbhat

Here's a link to the owners manual for the Gr-30.The Patch list is approx around page 108 or so.Hope this helps:

Roland U.S. - Owners Manuals

I midi into my Yamaha QS300 for better patches,especially pads.

thank you for your help, this manual helped a lot

**hans halmackenreuter** · 08-03-2011, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by ronjazz

It may not be called the Metheny patch, but both the GR09 and the GR30 have that sound in the presets. In any event, it's not difficult to make. Don't ignore the ability to control other synths and samplers as well, and to plug into your computer and watch it instantly transcribe your playing or your arrangements.

thank you ronjazz, thats the reason why i'm into a midi-system

**hans halmackenreuter** · 08-03-2011, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by kris

Roland Vg-99 has Pat sounds I think.It is different box but with midi also.
Best
Kris

yes i read the same yesterday, but the vg-99 is little bit to expansive.

**fep** · 08-03-2011, 09:19 AM

Today, I'll try to get time to record a bit of what I think is the Metheny sound from my GR-33 and post the recording here.

**hans halmackenreuter** · 08-03-2011, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by fep

Today, I'll try to get time to record a bit of what I think is the Metheny sound from my GR-33 and post the recording here.

that would be great. thank you

**fep** · 08-04-2011, 03:25 AM

Here it is. The patch I found that is the closes to the Metheny synth sound is 'GR-300 Lead' played with a pick, I followed that with some chord playing using the patch 'Jazz Scat' played with my fingers.

I haven't played the synth for over 6 months and haven't practiced guitar too much during that time. I say that to illustrate how well my Godin guitar tracks with the Roland synth. You do hear a couple glitches though... my bad.

GR-33 Demo.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

**MortenFaerestrand** · 08-04-2011, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by hans halmackenreuter

yes i read the same yesterday, but the vg-99 is little bit to expansive.

I've had several guitarsynths, and worked hard to make them sound musical. IMO any midi trigger guitar synth just simply does not allow you to play naturally on the guitar, so if what you're primarly is after is the Metheny GR300 sound, the GR99 is the only one that will allow you to express yourself naturally on the guitar, it is similar to playing with distortion.

Or, you could keep an eye on ebay and buy the actual GR300..

I have both those units, the original gr300 sounds warmer, but the vg99 is pretty close.

Another option is the line6 synth modeling things you find in the M13, they are quite great actually, but will not allow you to play more than one note at the time.

To rap it up, midi guitar synths works great if you play them AND also have the sound from your actual guitar, like having som strings or maybe some analog sound adding to your regular guitar. But as a solo expression they are rubbish. Even the guys demonstrating them for the companies sounds like ****.

**hans halmackenreuter** · 08-04-2011, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by fep

Here it is. The patch I found that is the closes to the Metheny synth sound is 'GR-300 Lead' played with a pick, I followed that with some chord playing using the patch 'Jazz Scat' played with my fingers.

I haven't played the synth for over 6 months and haven't practiced guitar too much during that time. I say that to illustrate how well my Godin guitar tracks with the Roland synth. You do hear a couple glitches though... my bad.

GR-33 Demo.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

thank you fep, i realy appreciate your help, it helped me a lot to get a good impression. so would you say, that a gk-ready guitar tracks better than the normal gk pu?

again, thanks

**hans halmackenreuter** · 08-04-2011, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by MortenFaerestrand

I've had several guitarsynths, and worked hard to make them sound musical. IMO any midi trigger guitar synth just simply does not allow you to play naturally on the guitar, so if what you're primarly is after is the Metheny GR300 sound, the GR99 is the only one that will allow you to express yourself naturally on the guitar, it is similar to playing with distortion.

Or, you could keep an eye on ebay and buy the actual GR300..

I have both those units, the original gr300 sounds warmer, but the vg99 is pretty close.

Another option is the line6 synth modeling things you find in the M13, they are quite great actually, but will not allow you to play more than one note at the time.

To rap it up, midi guitar synths works great if you play them AND also have the sound from your actual guitar, like having som strings or maybe some analog sound adding to your regular guitar. But as a solo expression they are rubbish. Even the guys demonstrating them for the companies sounds like ****.

I know that midi guitar synths have some disadvantages and it's always good to be reminded by that. but i was thinking very long about new sound possiblelities and of course i was also considering to get myself an analog synth like the line6 or the ehx pedals, nevertheless the sound options of a midi system were convincing me.

i guess a real gr 300 or vg 99 would be great to have, but they are very expansive. my idea is to make some fancy melodies and to support some backings sounds and i think for this purpose the GR's should work fine.

thank you for sharing your experience

**fep** · 08-04-2011, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by hans halmackenreuter

thank you fep, i realy appreciate your help, it helped me a lot to get a good impression. so would you say, that a gk-ready guitar tracks better than the normal gk pu?

again, thanks

I've only played my Godin guitars with a synth so I can't make the comparison to a normal gk pu. But I was definitely surprised when I first got the guitar and the synth. I had heard that you had to modify your technique to get the synth to track properly with the Godin guitars.

I didn't have to do much to my technique, just clean up the way I release strings with my fretting hand and make sure I didn't touch any of the strings with the heal or other fingers of my picking hand. These are a couple of things that can cause unintended strings to vibrate that you might not notice when playing without a synth but which might trigger the synth to play a loud note or a 'glitch'. But like I said these were minor adjustment that I was able to make immediately.

Godin says, "we discovered that we could impact the tracking of the system with fundamental changes to the guitar itself. Bracing, scale length, string tension and wood selection all had some effect on the response time (tracking) of the synth". They also use these special RMC system pickups.

Here's their spiel:

Godin Guitars

On the recording I used the LGX-SA. I also have a Multiac Nylon SA.

**hans halmackenreuter** · 08-08-2011, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by fep

I've only played my Godin guitars with a synth so I can't make the comparison to a normal gk pu. But I was definitely surprised when I first got the guitar and the synth. I had heard that you had to modify your technique to get the synth to track properly with the Godin guitars.

I didn't have to do much to my technique, just clean up the way I release strings with my fretting hand and make sure I didn't touch any of the strings with the heal or other fingers of my picking hand. These are a couple of things that can cause unintended strings to vibrate that you might not notice when playing without a synth but which might trigger the synth to play a loud note or a 'glitch'. But like I said these were minor adjustment that I was able to make immediately.

Godin says, "we discovered that we could impact the tracking of the system with fundamental changes to the guitar itself. Bracing, scale length, string tension and wood selection all had some effect on the response time (tracking) of the synth". They also use these special RMC system pickups.

Here's their spiel:

Godin Guitars

On the recording I used the LGX-SA. I also have a Multiac Nylon SA.

nice guitars fep

thank you for your time and help

**destinytot** · 09-03-2017, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by fep

Here it is. The patch I found that is the closes to the Metheny synth sound is 'GR-300 Lead' played with a pick, I followed that with some chord playing using the patch 'Jazz Scat' played with my fingers.

I haven't played the synth for over 6 months and haven't practiced guitar too much during that time. I say that to illustrate how well my Godin guitar tracks with the Roland synth. You do hear a couple glitches though... my bad.

GR-33 Demo.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

Love this - got to have one at home! Thanks!

**jzucker** · 09-03-2017, 01:55 PM

if you don't mind using a computer, this has way better tracking than the roland or fishman and requires no custom hardware. Just pitch to midi in your computer. And it's polyphonic.

I used the trial version and it had a peculiar bug that it wouldn't recognize tritone intervals so I never purchased it.

Jam Origin Store

**destinytot** · 09-03-2017, 02:32 PM

Thanks. That's interesting, but I wouldn't want to use a guitar synth with a computer.

Regarding tracking and the Roland GR-55, I'd want to 'try before I buy' (to see whether it's worth the money) - preferably on a guitar of my choice and via a Roland GK-3.

I found this persuasive:

**jzucker** · 09-03-2017, 02:39 PM

i had a hard time getting the video to play but in what was was it persuasive? FWIW, I found the GR-55 tracking to be worse than the GR33. YMMV.

Originally Posted by destinytot

Thanks. That's interesting, but I wouldn't want to use a guitar synth with a computer.

Regarding tracking and the Roland GR-55, I'd want to 'try before I buy' (to see whether it's worth the money) - preferably on a guitar of my choice and via a Roland GK-3.

I found this persuasive: