The woodiest guitar tone i ever heard (George Benson)

**jayx123** · 08-31-2011, 03:29 AM

I wonder on which guitar Benson is playing on this recording

TH · 08-31-2011, 04:56 AM

Hmmm, this predates his use of the Ibanez GB model by about a half dozen years. I know he had a D'Angelico around that time, and he played a Guild a lot in that era, among them an Artist Award if I'm not mistaken. But he played a lot of guitars back before his deal with Ibanez. Everything from the D'A to Charile Christian Gibsons to Guilds with the fixed pickups; Guild pickups have a real nice sound to them. At some point he used a Starfire (double cutaway). Nice sound in the recording, a little hard to tell when you put heavier flat wounds on whatever he's playing.
But it's definitely not the Ibanez in the photo.
David

**Philco** · 08-31-2011, 07:12 AM

I'd love to know what Guit/Amp combo he was using on the Benson Burner recordings.
My fave Jazz sound. Sounds like a bigger body to me and he's really pushing the amp. I mean.....there IS some body tone.
Although there is definitely a lot of outboard shenanigans going on. Perhaps that's where ALL the distortion came from.
Pushing the front end of a Neve or a Pultec and then some LA2A slamming.
Great sound.
Fresh and exciting.

**pingu** · 08-31-2011, 09:22 AM

Benson is a Baaad Cat check out 1:52 on that utube !!!

**Pierrot** · 08-31-2011, 10:27 AM

Yeah, that woody tone would flame nicely in my chimney...

**Drifter** · 08-31-2011, 11:30 AM

Beautiful! Is that available on CD or where does it come from?

**Loobs** · 08-31-2011, 11:56 AM

Fantastic. One of my favourite tones in jazz, for sure.

I LOVE his playing/sound on Benson's Cookbook. One of my favourite albums. He was on fire and Lonnie Smith is awesome too.

**hot ford coupe** · 08-31-2011, 01:50 PM

That's got to be a big box archtop that's making that sound. If you listen closely, there are some areas that sound like Johnny Smith's tone which leads me to believe that the guitar he's playing may be his D'Angelico New Yorker. I've seen pictures of him holding on to it. That's the most incredible sounding archtop I've ever heard and the sound I've been searching for and chasing for years.

**D'Aquisto Fan** · 08-31-2011, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by hot ford coupe

That's got to be a big box archtop that's making that sound. If you listen closely, there are some areas that sound like Johnny Smith's tone which leads me to believe that the guitar he's playing may be his D'Angelico New Yorker. I've seen pictures of him holding on to it. That's the most incredible sounding archtop I've ever heard and the sound I've been searching for and chasing for years.

Yeah, it sounds like a floater to me. Which guitar? I'm not sure. But it certainly sounds great.

**rpguitar** · 08-31-2011, 04:30 PM

Before he had the GB-10, Benson played an Ibanez Johnny Smith double pickup "lawsuit" copy. I've seen it on numerous older videos on U-Toob, but can't find a quick link to post.

TH · 08-31-2011, 05:31 PM

He had so many nice guitars. Some pictures of him with a super 400, and those lawsuit Johnnys, they were HEAVY! I had one before I got a Gibson, traded it as part of the deal actually, and the Gibson was so light!.
A few years ago, there was an auction of his guitars. I think it was charity benificial in some way. But invitations came out to the viewing before the auction. It was spectacular. Each one of them was a lifetime's dream for anyone else. All there together. All being sold.
David

**hot ford coupe** · 08-31-2011, 08:25 PM

Whatever it is, it's got to be one of the best sounding archtops I've ever heard. That to me is the traditional sound of a quality archtop.

**Philco** · 08-31-2011, 08:40 PM

I agree. I haven't heard anything better than this. I've heard "slicker"......say Bensons later tone on the GB10 or Chuck Loeb on certain recordings when he does use an arch top.
But that old Benson tone has a rawness to it that makes the sweet passages even more emotive.
It's that old balance thing.

1 Sweet tone + sweet song = to sweet
2 Raw warm tone + sweet song = yeah

Interesting that the performance is live and there is no hint of feedback from the guitar given that there is some drive going on.

Theory.....distortion added after performance with outboard gear or re amping?
Same engineer who got the sound on the recordings of George during that era?
I mean.....that isn't a 2 track recording by the sound of it. It's a multitrack and that would allow some post tweeking.............which ALWAYS happens.

**Philco** · 09-02-2011, 03:42 AM

Just listening to the overall mix today and this is no el cheapo live recording.
This is definitely mixed after the performance with much effort and attention to detail. Listen to the way Bensons guitar sound gets louder in certain passages.
All the levels are being ridden and there's compression all over the place.
Listen to the cymbals breathing at the end. Also the hard panning and placement of the instruments.
That guitar tone was probably great anyway but it has definitely been mixed.
There's probably Neve preamps and vintage compressors in use.

My point being if a mere mortal wants THAT guitar tone it's not just a matter of a great player plugging into an amp.

Most recordings are an illusion to some degree.
If your chasing that tone and expect to get it out of a nice guitar and amp I think you would come up short by a long shot.
Ain't gonna stop us from trying though!

**Philco** · 09-02-2011, 03:58 AM

Nice tone from the 335 in this one by Kurt.
Has he got a single coil in the front?

TH · 09-02-2011, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by Philco

Nice tone from the 335 in this one by Kurt.
Has he got a single coil in the front?

I'm no authority by a long shot, but doesn't that look a little like a 330 with a humbucker and a piece of masking tape across the lower bobbin to reduce the click of the pick contacting the pickup?
If so the answer might be no.
David

**Philco** · 09-02-2011, 06:45 AM

To quote Billy Joel, "You may be right"

Actually I'm not familiar with the 330.
But for this piece it sounds quite beautiful and is played with much feeling.

Round wound strings and a plain 3rd.
Interesting.
Also note just before he changes to pick he hits a pedal or something on the floor.

**jorgemg1984** · 09-02-2011, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

I'm no authority by a long shot, but doesn't that look a little like a 330 with a humbucker and a piece of masking tape across the lower bobbin to reduce the click of the pick contacting the pickup?
If so the answer might be no.
David

Its exactly that! He uses the pickup really close to the strings and uses the tape to stop that click.

The pedal is probably a Lehle he uses to turn on / off some of his pedals, his sound changes when he hits it.

**jayx123** · 09-03-2011, 07:20 AM

here is another Benson with that "woody" tone

**hot ford coupe** · 09-03-2011, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by jayx123

here is another Benson with that "woody" tone

I'm not sure which axe he might be using there but there's that sound. For those not familiar with how that sound develops, if you pick just over the end of the fingerboard and play at the 8th to 10th fret depending on how your instrument is made, you can get that sound. Then you need to fiddle around with the picking pressure/pickup volume ratio if you're using a pickup. Each guitar is different but that's the general way to get close to that sound.

**Loobs** · 09-03-2011, 08:12 PM

It sounds similar to his tone on his early LPs like Uptown and Cookbook to me. Little more 'woody' perhaps. On a side note - aren't these adjectives we used to describe guitar sound kinda funny? What does wood sound like? Ah, the never ending quest for onomatopoeic ways to describe guitar tone.

**Kojo27** · 09-03-2011, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by jayx123

I wonder on which guitar Benson is playing on this recording

This is heavenly. I know which standard I'm learning next. Wow.

**MikeJ** · 09-04-2011, 05:26 AM

Might be playing his Gibson Johnny Smith.

He talks about using it on the Breezin album in this article.
ALL ABOUT JAZZ: Jazz Music, Jazz Artists, Jazz MP3s, Jazz Reviews, Jazz Photos and More | AllAboutJazz.com
I have one of the same year but sunburst and really does get a woody sound from it.

cheers

Mike

**gianluca** · 05-23-2013, 07:03 PM

Maybe it could help: I can get very close to that tone with an L-5 and a jc120.
L-5 volume and tone all way up. neck pickup;
jc120 treble all way up; mid and basses all way down; bright ON.
medium pick (work on the picking angle)
TI 012 flat strings

**Jimmy Mack** · 05-23-2013, 08:13 PM

Hmmm... a bunch of guesses here, so I'll add mine.

When GB plays a JS, as in the above video, or on the Breezin' CD, I don't hear that great "woody" "fleshy" finger tone. Yes, I hear GB's fingers, but, Gibson Johnny Smiths just don't have that warm rich tone like the first Vid "Shadow of Your Smile".

I've owned one, and played others. That is not the sound from SOYS.

I've been listening to GB for many many years, and tho, I don't know where the OP vid came from, I have noticed his variations in tones throughout the years. I'd say it had to be late 60's - early 70's before the JS, or Artist Award. It's sounding to me like his L5 or Super 400 - closer to a good Kenny Burrell tone.

I get unnerved when people say "your tone is in your fingers". If it were 100% true, why would GB sound so different on all of his various guitars? And I'm not talking studio gear or compression. Different guitars have different voices. Period.

His playing, attack, and phrasing will be the same, but some guitars are woodier, some thinner sounding, some brighter etc.

Loobs hit the nail on the head. The tone in that "White Rabbit" thing is definitely not the same as the one in "TSOYS".
Use your ears - they're not even close! I know one is "live" and the other a Studio prod. but GB has had that tone in the studio too.

Kurt is playing his regular 335 with a p/up that is taped to prevent unwanted noise from a pick.