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Does anyone here have a fretless guitar?
I personally really want one. Probably not as my main instrument, but it'd be an awesome thing to have.
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09-09-2011 02:20 PM
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don't count on getting any sustain from it.
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Originally Posted by Gramps
Sounds like there's enough sustain if you turn up the gain a little. A compressor can also help a cleaner tone.
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A cleaner example:
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They are fun. I have converted a couple of necks to fretless. I've even gigged solo with a fretless and a looper. I did pseudo-raga style Indian influenced improv, including layered "percussion" accomplished by tapping on the strings over the pickups and other tricks. I also use an Ebow with the fretless for additional variety. I have a couple of videos on my YouTube channel showing some fretless playing to demonstrate the sound.
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I have an Ibanez that I "neutered" and use it on occasion. I love the textures and totally different and fresh approach it brings out in me, but quite honestly, the reason I don't use it more is I use a lot of chordal intervallic vocabulary even when I'm playing solo. Just not happening on a fretless. Plus, it IS hard for me to get sustain. I might come to love it more if I worked with it more but time if a finite resource...
I do find myself in the lower frets a lot, and using open strings as pedals is really nice. A friend uses it for Balkan music and he's virtually invented a new niche for himself. Amazing sounds.
I got a shruti box recently, and it seems to work well to keep a pedal going while the fretless finds really nice subtleties of microtones.
By the way, mine is a 7 string.
David
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Originally Posted by Vihar
Well, duh! That's me...
Yes, that's a very clean example on a brand new unfretted (not DE-fretted) neck bought from Warmoth. I also have a couple of the raga style videos on my channel.
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Well, I'm ready to go buy a used $50 Squier guitar and rip the frets out, just like I did with a $50 Squier bass.
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Do take the time to straighten the neck (truss rod) and fill the fret slots in. I used epoxy mixed with sanded wood dust of the fretboard. This'll keep the neck from wanting to bow or warp with the tension of the strings, plus it makes a better fretless surface.
David
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Figures. lol Nice tone there rpguitar. Who needs a Vigier after all. Originally Posted by rpguitar
Well, duh! That's me...
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I love Marc Ducret's playing on the fretless. Very expressive.
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Ripped the frets off of my squire ten years ago. I probably play it for five minutes every two years. It usually comes out when I'm giving a new friend my guitar tour.
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I have an old yamaha electric that I converted into a fretless.
I used it once on a song from my first album.
It has been sitting in my closet for a long time now.
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Converted an Epiphone SG into one. I also burned the finish off as an experiment, which is a whole other discussion.
It's a cool instrument. I actually took lessons from David Fiuczynski for a while, and he opened my eyes to what one can accomplish without frets. Once my tendonitis heals I'm looking into doing a headless double-neck build in the future. Definitely try it out!
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interesting, what was that like? Originally Posted by Smitty
He is a blistering player. "The Torsos" is very exciting music. I posted a link at showcase, not a single comment.
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Playing slide guitar is fretless in my book.
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Hey there-
I'm a jazz player who plays fretless 7 string (acoustic and electric.) I haven't seen much activity lately from any fretless players. Maybe it's just the topics I'm interested in that don't have any players weighing in on fretless approaches. Anyway, for anybody out there, lurkers, non-posters, closet fretless players, I have a few questions to start a discussion:
Do you use the instrument strictly as a solo instrument or do you comp too? Any guidelines harmonically or physically about voicings?
I have a serious awareness of short sustain, how do you get around this? Action? String gauge?
I tend to avoid the first string, and having the 7th string helps there; this is because of the weak sound I get from the first string. I even use a heavier than usual string up there, but not as big a help as I'd like. Is this an issue with other fretless players?
I tend to open myself up for microtonal and typically vocal embellishments. That's what makes it worth it, it's so expressive. Anybody out there?
And please, I know there're a lot of you out there that can point out that Wes never played fretless. I'm aware of that so please allow this sacrelige just for this discussion. Thanks anybody!
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I'm a jazz player also and play fretless - but only 6 string (6 is almost too many strings for me).
I use the instrument both as a solo instrument and chordal too.
I try to keep to 2 and 3 note chord voicing.
I've found the sustain to be quite good but I use only nylon strings.
I use microtonal and embellishments only for effects and expressiveness -
most of the time I try to stay as tonal as if I'm playing a fretted guitar.
Here's a sample:
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Hey Vinny, beautiful! Yeah a little while back I listened to a bit of oud music, from Turkey, Iran, and also a lot of violin music but I realized I'd pretty much have to invent the wheel myself because there's just not a lot of these wheels around. Thanks!
I too shy away from too much gliss. It's the first thing people do when they try out my instruments-go for the big Jaco gliss sounds and it's just painful for me to listen to at this point. There's plenty of subtle approach slides both up to and down to.
I'm still building a meaningful vocabulary. And surprizingly a huge inspiration to me is Michael Brecker because he is the master of the lyrical vibrato. So I listen to when and why he uses it. It's a lesson.
I should revisit some Ali Akbar Khan too.
You get a really nice sound out of the nylon. I never considered it. I play a 15 inch 7 string archtop and a solid body ibanez I de-fretted.
The fretless has also really informed my fretted playing too, never taking anything for granted.
Yeah I'm glad to hear the thoughts about the chordal playing confirmed. I'm working on root/melody voicings and anything much more than a diad is flirting dangerously with one finger going out and that sounds AWFUL!
Thanks for the feedback. I really don't know of many (any) other fretless players... I think Phillip Cathrine did some at some point. I love the sound but it's a lot of work!
Lower action and heavier strings than I would use on a fretted.
I'm still surprized at some of the sounds that come on their own and it's been about two years I've been on the smoothie.
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Pat playing some fretless 6:05 -
Guthrie Govan giving some tips about fretless -
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In answer to searchformeaning's fretless sustain issues:
Some fretless guitars suffer more than others from top string sustain probs. Not so bad on nylon strings as already mentioned, but can be poor on steel strings.
I generally use fairly heavy flatwounds, including a wound third string.
The Vigier played by Guthrie is supplied with roundwound 12's and has pretty fantastic sustain. The manufacturer also ships the guitar tuned down a whole tone, -2, DGCFAD. This does give more control over the strings, though most players tune the guitar to standard pitch.
More at: Unfretted - Fretless Guitar Resource.
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We seem to have a lot in common… I'm a fan of jazz saxophonist Wayne Shorter and I've listened to Ali Akbar Khan as well.
For many years I played an arch top but about 20 years ago I sold everything but my classical guitar and a couple steel string acoustics. My daughter had a small Samick acoustic that she never played so I asked her if I could use it and I tore the frets off (she was pissed!). I tried steel strings on it but I couldn't get the sound that I wanted so I put the nylons on and never looked back. I find that I sometimes don't have the desire to play fretted because the lack of freedom that the frets have!
The fretless has also improved my fretted playing.
In terms of chords, I tune my guitar in straight 4ths so when I play chords, many times I use my 1st finger as a bar chord and get a really big sound while still keeping in tune. When playing chord/melody style I stay to 2 and 3 note combinations.
I've also been playing fretless for about two years… but still not confident enough to play out with it - yet. It's been like starting a new instrument! Keep playing.
Cheers,
Vinny Stefanelli
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Wow Vinny and jahloon... all of you, Thanks! It's great to actually know you're out there. Funny, when I get on a fretted guitar, it feels like a neck with speed bumps! But there are things that I can't do on fretted of course, a whole world of comping for example, of course.
Vocal music of all kinds and even speech takes on a whole new appreciation too. I got into fretless because there were sounds I heard in my head and no amount of work with a fretted instrument could satisfy me. The next step will be to work with the volume pedal and the solid body. For now though, it's the hollow fretless.
When I comp, I like to play more leading tone or melodic based lines in one or two voices. Barres are out heh heh! Just too ugly when they're off!
Yeah Wayne Shorter is always an inspiration. As is Dave Fiuczynski. Bach violin suites too, as a lesson in harmonic and melodic beauty and the beauty of the fretless note.
I really ought to try out the flat wounds. I use Labella rolled wounds, a lively sound with soft edges for sliding.
Thanks guys. This has been REALLY helpful.
Any other fretless guitar players out there?
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I am interested as to why the hesitation addressing chords beyond 2 notes.
The issues related to difficulty are apparent to me but.....my perspective on this is informed by pursuing chordal skills on the cello.
Guitar tuning makes this game relatively easier, 6 strings makes a bit harder.
Exploring chords on cello I often contemplate whether I will ever be able to play some voicings in tune.
Having been at this for a while I know now the answer is mostly yes with persistance.
I have found also that all the harmonic practice has helped improve my intonation when playing melodically.
Anyway, I am glad that this thread was started to open a window into the fretless guitar world even for those of us who might never remove the speed bumps.
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When I was in high school I played a lot of fretless electric bass, as I acquired more guitars I figured I would try pulling out the frets in my first guitar, a squire. There was a rock player, Ned Evett, that piqued my curiosity at the time about fretless guitar.
I spent a little bit of time with it and developed idiosyncrasies that I then got tired of, heh.
The guitar has mostly stayed in my closet since then, it needs a little cleaning and some new strings. I bring it out for friends sometimes when I'm giving them the guitar tour.
I'd be interested in hearing more clips from fretless players.
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