Input Jack of a Gibson ES-335/Epi Sheraton

**JensL** · 09-18-2011, 05:29 PM

Hi,

I just played a gig today where the input jack of my epiphone broke in the first song. I had had a "warning" two days ago so I brought a spare for the last few days not trusting the guitar. By warning I mean that the guitar lost signal for 5 seconds and I had time to check it was not the cable..

The problem is just the connection in the plug itself, and it seems to be a returning issue since I've had it fixed 2 times already the last 6 months.

Are there any good solutions to this?

Thanks

Jens

Edit: I guess it's an output jack....

**Greco** · 09-18-2011, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by JensL

Hi,

I just played a gig today where the input jack of my epiphone broke in the first song. I had had a "warning" two days ago so I brought a spare for the last few days not trusting the guitar. By warning I mean that the guitar lost signal for 5 seconds and I had time to check it was not the cable..

The problem is just the connection in the plug itself, and it seems to be a returning issue since I've had it fixed 2 times already the last 6 months.

Are there any good solutions to this?

Thanks

Jens

I would suggest buying a Switchcraft jack with a longer threaded section (there are two lengths available). Switchcraft make high quality jacks (I doubt it will ever "break") and the longer threaded section allows you to put a lock washer on the inside ( or outside....if you wish) without "running out" of threads. This was suggested for my 335 by a friend who is a guitar tech.

Cheers

Dave

**lpdeluxe** · 09-18-2011, 08:16 PM

The difficulty is fishing the output jack out through the treble f-hole. You have to twist it to go back in, and it's very easy to damage the solder joints. A more robust jack will help, but pulling the whole harness out may be the best way to permanently repair it.

**Greco** · 09-18-2011, 08:56 PM

Also, It is a good idea to use shielded wire for long runs inside the guitar. The shield can act as the ground wire. I use shielded wire throughout the harness as is convenient to always have the ground "travelling" along with the "hot"/signal wire, as you always need to have a ground available anyway. Unshielded wire acts as an antenna.

Also, to stabilize the concern about delicate solder joints (as lpdeluxe mentions) you can use shrink tube that fits over the jack terminals and the wire (it might be a bit loose on the wire, depending on the diameter of shrink tube you choose to use and the external diameter of the wire. REMEMBER to slide the tube well up the wire BEFORE soldering and slide it down over the lug once the jack has cooled.

If you don't like working through the treble side "F" hole, you can choose to work through a pickup cavity. It is just more work as you have to remove and replace the pickup.

Cheers

Dave

**lpdeluxe** · 09-18-2011, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by Greco

If you don't like working through the treble side "F" hole, you can choose to work through a pickup cavity. It is just more work as you have to remove and replace the pickup.

Cheers

Dave

Good advice, but my '95 Samick-built Sheraton II did not have access through the pickup rout. Apparently diffferent plants build them differently. EVERYTHING on mine went in through and came out of the treble f-hole, which, with its binding, was .75" at its widest. Needless to say, rewiring it was an all-day sucker. Here's a link to a pic with Seymour Duncans, painfully acquired:

**JensL** · 09-19-2011, 02:51 AM

Thanks guys!

I actually already had all electronics changed when I got the pickups changed.

I also only have access through the f-holes.

@Greco Could you send me a link to the model you mean? So I know what you are talking about.

Jens

**jazzbow** · 09-19-2011, 07:45 AM

This might help!

STEWMAC.COM : Issue 94, Fishing a volume control out of a semi-hollowbody for soldering.

**Greco** · 09-19-2011, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by JensL

@Greco Could you send me a link to the model you mean? So I know what you are talking about.

Jens

Here is a link to the supplier and the part
* WD Music Products - SWITCHCRAFT® JACK 1/4'' EXTRA LONG

I'm not sure what method you use to put the jack back into the guitar body, but I built a great, simple tool for doing this. Let me know if you want more info about it.

Cheers

Dave

**JensL** · 09-19-2011, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Greco

Here is a link to the supplier and the part
* WD Music Products - SWITCHCRAFT® JACK 1/4'' EXTRA LONG

I'm not sure what method you use to put the jack back into the guitar body, but I built a great, simple tool for doing this. Let me know if you want more info about it.

Cheers

Dave

Thanks Greco and Jazzbow!

@Greco: I am curious that sounds very interesting!

Jens

**Little Jay** · 09-19-2011, 03:06 PM

I put a switchcraft in my Sheraton 10 years ago and never had any troubles since!

**JensL** · 09-19-2011, 03:19 PM

@Little Jay,

Hi neighbour!

I have to check, I think there's already a switchcraft in there, I asked to have it changed.

Did you solder it ?

Do you use angled cables with it (I don't and I am beginning to suspect that that may make the cables rotate more and therefore mess with the connection (But this is a guess obviously, I am relatively clueless..)

[annoyed moaning...]

I do need to go to Germany to record a cd in a few weeks and I am not so happy that I cannot trust my main instrument, I am not used to that.

[/annoyed moaning...]

Jens

**Little Jay** · 09-19-2011, 05:30 PM

Yep, the Hague also ;-)

I did solder it, I tinkered a lot with the guitar actually. I don't think I did anything special with it to prevent the solder joints from breaking or snapping off. Once they're in position there's not much that can hurt them....

I can always offer to lend you my Sheraton to take to Germany if you can't get yours fixed - but I don't know how much (if at all) they are alike.
(Mine's a '92 or so Korean made, with a SD59 in the bridge and a Golden Age in the neckposition). I can imagine that - even if yours is also an early Korean - they can still be day and night.

But to repair it is just 5 minutes of work (plus an hour of getting all the electronics out and back in ;-). And I also have a special tool.. a bent piece of metal of some sort

If I can be of assistance, just give me PM.

**JensL** · 09-19-2011, 05:55 PM

Thanks! That's very nice of you. I might end up taking you up on that, but I'll see if I can work something out. Mine is a 2000 korean with BareKnuckle pick-ups.

The problem is not that it is broken but that it's broken for the 3rd time this year, and that is making me paranoid. I played a concert yesterday where it broke down after one tune. Two days earlier I'd had 10 seconds where it did not have a signal. Prompting me to bring an extra guitar for 4 gigs and just wait for it to break. The fact that I cannot trust my guitar is driving me insane

I'd love to figure out why it keeps breaking that would be a real solution.
At the moment I am leaning towards my cable not being angled and being quite stiff (it's a "solid" cable if you know the brand). I was thinking that instead of the cable getting beaten or twisted (which is hard because the cable is heavy and rigid) the plug is taking the heat so to speak, but it's all theory...

Jens

**Greco** · 09-19-2011, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by JensL

@Greco: I am curious that sounds very interesting!
Jens

Hi Jens:

This tool has been successful for myself and two of the local guitar techs.

Take an old, inexpensive 1/4 inch plug and cut it off with as much of the sleeve remaining as possible.

Solder one end of a heavy gauge wire (14 gauge) about 60 to 75 cm. in length into the empty/open end of the plug sleeve. Solid wire holds it shape better.

Push the 1/4 inch sleeve part into the jack until it is solidly connected (as it would normally feel with your patch cable) and undo the nut.

The jack will fall into the guitar. Push the jack to the treble "f" hole using the wire of the tool.

Lift the jack out through the hole and solder.

Reverse the above process. Be careful not to pull too hard on the wire or it could disconnect from the tool.

Slide the nut down over the wire and tighten it.

Let me know if you have any questions about making or using this tool.

This tool also works great when a jack comes loose and drop inside the guitar.

Cheers

Dave

**jazzbow** · 09-19-2011, 06:26 PM

Here's another tip, get some shrink tubing, slip it over the hot lead going to the jack, solder the wire as usual and when the wire has cooled push the shrinkable tubing along to cover cold solder join and input terminal, heat sufficiently and hey presto, a nice solid join,

STEWMAC.COM : Pictures of Heat Shrink Tubing

**Greco** · 09-19-2011, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by jazzbow

Here's another tip, get some shrink tubing, slip it over the hot lead going to the jack, solder the wire as usual and when the wire has cooled push the shrinkable tubing along to cover cold solder join and input terminal, heat sufficiently and hey presto, a nice solid join,

STEWMAC.COM : Pictures of Heat Shrink Tubing

Great minds think alike...see post #4...LOL

Cheers

Dave

**Little Jay** · 09-20-2011, 01:51 AM

I use angled jack plugs and then route the cable through my guitar strap (I tuck it between the guitar and the strap), so even if you accidentally step on the cable or pull it you never stress the plug itself.

I kind of puzzles me why your plug broke three times.... I only had it once with a strat because the bolt had come loose, causing the plug to turn and a wire to snap off.

With my Sheraton the solder connections never broke, not even on the older plug I replaced. I replaced that because the metal strip that pushes against the jack plug (thus making the connection) had gone lame.

Your input breaks without the bolt being loose/becoming unscrewed?

**Little Jay** · 09-20-2011, 01:56 AM

Are you absolutely sure it's the input?
Sometimes a corroded switch also causes signal loss (usually solved by rocking it up and down a few times)

**JensL** · 09-20-2011, 02:11 AM

Thanks for thinking along with me on this one! I owe you a beer!

I am pretty sure it's the input, I never had any issues in terms of noise etc. with the switch, and I almost only use my neck pickup.

For the rest I am very puzzled too, but as I said I in an earlier post I am leaning towards blaming the use of a heavy not angled cable, and I never tuck the cable in the strap with this guitar. I am going to change that right away, so that I have it set up in a way that does not put strain on the plug.

I am going to get it fixed today, I'll talk to my guitar-builder about it.

Jens

**Greco** · 09-20-2011, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

I use angled jack plugs and then route the cable through my guitar strap (I tuck it between the guitar and the strap), so even if you accidentally step on the cable or pull it you never stress the plug itself.

I kind of puzzles me why your plug broke three times.... I only had it once with a strat because the bolt had come loose, causing the plug to turn and a wire to snap off.

With my Sheraton the solder connections never broke, not even on the older plug I replaced. I replaced that because the metal strip that pushes against the jack plug (thus making the connection) had gone lame.

Your input breaks without the bolt being loose/becoming unscrewed?

All good advice and questions.

The 90 degree angled plugs, combined with passing the cable under the strap, are essential to reduce stress on the jack and prevent serious accidents if the cable is stepped on, etc.

I am also curious as to the plug "breaking". As Little Jay says, the typical problem is that the "leaf" of metal on the jack (going to the tip of the plug) gradually becomes bent "outwards" and makes poor contact. You can try to "overbend" this back "inwards" but, the the results are often temporary as the jack is inexpensively made. Switchcraft uses much stronger material.

My guess is that you might be loosing contact intermittently, as a straight plug could lever in the jack and cause this..especially if the jack is not "tight" (i.e., holding the tip well) in the first place.

Many people break the wires when they try to tighten a loose jack and turn the whole jack while tightening. This is where thin, "star" type lock washers on the inside of the jack plate/guitar are very helpful.

Please let us know what your luthier/guitar tech finds and what his/her solution is.

Cheers

Dave

**JensL** · 09-20-2011, 04:06 PM

I will

Thanks Dave

Jens

**jazzbow** · 09-21-2011, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Greco

Great minds think alike...see post #4...LOL

Cheers

Dave

Ha! Post blind.

**JensL** · 09-24-2011, 11:09 AM

Well, it seems it was just the connection that was twisted loose, it is fixed now. I bought an angled cable and I am OCD'ing about not getting any strain on the plug.

I guess if I adjust my behaviour it will last longer, otherwise I'll have to look into that solution that Scofield had on his guitar

Jens

**JensL** · 10-07-2011, 06:15 PM

Hi Guys,

Just got back from recording the next Træben cd in Fattoria Musica in Ösnabrück, Germany

The guitar did fine in the end and I brought my gibson as a backup just in case.

We spent 2 days and cut 13 new tracks which is probably way too much music but right now we are very happy with that and I'll keep
on posting on the progress of the cd which we hope to release early January 2012.

Jens