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Hey All, I've been on an extended hiatus, but plan on stopping back more often now.
I just had a random gear question, and maybe it's just a little naive.
I don't see to many jazz players picking on Gretsch guitars, and I always wondered why. They seem to have a stigma for being country and rockabilly boxes only. I was just wondering if there way any reason for that.
I own an 5120 Elctromatic, and it's big, boxy, sounds woody like every other hollow body I've played. It's got that unique orange color plus has a bigsby. whats not to love.
Thanks in advance for you input!
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11-29-2011 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by dothead
Ermmmm...that orange colour. And the Bigsby.
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The Swedish guitarist Rune Gustafsson doesn't seem to be held back by the Gretsch he plays in this clip:
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The idea of what constituted a "jazz guitar" formed during a time Gretsch was perceived as lower quality than Gibson and Epiphone. It wasn't just jazzers...fewer professionals overall played Gretsch.
Gretsch got in with Chet Atkins and that helped create a niche for them that came to include what has become known as rock-a-billy...but along with that came some things that most jazzers didn't like...automotive inspired paint jobs and sound posts or "trestle bracing" which transformed even guitars like the Country Club into semi-hollows.
Today's Synchromatic archtop line isn't too popular with jazzers because as an Asian built axe with a press formed solid spruce top they are competing with carved guitars in the same price range. And it is almost impossible to find anything else they sell that doesn't have a Bigsby tailpiece.
That said, you still see some Gretsch guitars in jazz -- just not very many.
Tomorrow night I may take a "Gretsch" because it's small and comfortable to play. But it is one of the "Historic Series" Korean built archtops that aren't regarded as "real Gretsch" guitars and that haven't been built for at least ten years.
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My name is Dan Duffy . I just read the post about Gretsch Guitars and Jazz. I was Quality Controller in the Brooklyn Factory from 1957 to 1970. I signed all those Green OK Cards that hung on the guitars when they were sent out. In 1970 they moved the factory to Boonesville Ark. I did not go. The Orange guitars with a Bigsby tailpiece ( model 6120 Chet Atkins Guitar) was not directed at Jazz players.
Country players mainly used these guitars . Jazz guitar player Sal Salvador indorsed Gretsch Guitars. He recommended me for the job at Gretsch when i was studying with him . I also studied with Hy White in 1954/55 .Sal had his own Model. #6199 Convertible That he indorsed for Gretsch. The guitar can be seen on utube suggested by OLDANE. I had one of these in 1958. In 1960 I got a 6192 country club. I used this guitar 3 or 4 nights a week for about 15 years. To me it was the best all around guitar. Many studio guys this guitar back then.Van Epps indorsed gretsch With his 7 string Guitar. I spent Many Memorable times with this great and gracious man. After Gretsch I worked for 7 years for Univox Guitars . 13 years as general Manager with Vinci guitar strings and 5 years as President of DÁquisto strings. I played a lot Of Jimmy's Guitars after he made them. It wasn't that many because he was getting sick a lot and was unable to work all the time.
Gretsch guitars were and are still played by country or rock a billy players. During the guitar boom of the 60's Gretsh Out produced and sold more guitars than Gibson ,and fender. In my experience In the music business our beloved Jazz guitar Is only about 10 % of all related sales.
Guitars - Strings Etc. Thanks for reading this - I hope it helps Gretsch and Jazz guitar. Dan Duffy
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Although I always thought Cal Collins did a great job with one of your guitars back when he started getting some national recognition. Originally Posted by dan duffy
Last edited by cjm; 11-29-2011 at 12:54 PM.
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That's funny to think about. I have a 1961 Gretsch New Yorker and it must have passed through your hands. I don't think I insult anyone by saying that it is not a "holy grail" guitar, more an earthy utility guitar. Despite this it is in good condition (not all Gretsches from that time are still in one piece). It plays and sounds quite OK. It's typically the acoustic I bring when I won't use one of my two luthier made carved guitars. Originally Posted by dan duffy
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I have a Gretsch G100CE that I have changed the pickup to a Benedetto S6 nd it soundd great for jazz. I also played on a single pickup gretsch 6125 and it had a fantastic jazz tone.
When I called Benedetto to talk about pickup for the Gretsch Bob himelf tld me he owned a G100CE and LOVED that guitar. He is also very friendly with the cat who currently owns Gretsch. So I would say that you CAN get a jazz tone out of a Gretsch...even a traditional jazz tone. Most jazzers are not fans of the Bigsby BUT Ted Greene had a few Guilds with a Bigsby and he had a wonderful jazz tone. I believe he is playing a Guild Duanne Eddy and you can see a close up of the Bigsby about 1:43 mark. I would say its tone is pretty jazzy...
'Mike
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Because the DynaSonic and Filtertron pickups are a little too punchy and twangy (with a little sting) for most jazz tones, and if you try to dial that down, it's gets too flat. However, I love playing some jazz tunes with my 6120. I love the sound of a Gretsch! I play Summertime on the neck pickup with a little delay and the tone is fabulous.
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Rune Gustafsson.........man what a great player!! Originally Posted by oldane
Thanks for the link.
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I had a mid-70's Gretsch solid body that I purchased from a friend joining the military. It was well made, with Dimizario Super Distortion pickups, and a Travis Bean sort of vibe. I sold it in the 80's.
To me, Gretsch (as a company) was like an artist with the talent of Renoir, who decided to do black velvet Elvis Paintings from time to time. Perhaps Gretsch failed to emerge for their own shadow of quirkiness, to appeal to very many jazz guitarists.
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Speaking as a long-term Gretsch player (I had a '63 Chet Atkins Country Gent from 1982-1997) I have to say that that particular model was ill-suited to jazz playing. It had a wide, relatively flat fingerboard (still my favorite) but its peculiar control system made dialing in a tone other than three or four basic ones very difficult. The pickups were good, but lacking in adjustment; earlier models had the harsher DeArmond ones. The unusual neck/heel system limited higher fret access (when I eventually got the guitar that replaced it, a Gibson Les Paul, I was amazed at the ease with which I could whiz around the treble end of the fingerboard). It was a very pretty guitar, but my 335 is much better suited for adventuresome playing.
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For my purposes, using a Gretsch for jazz would be like using a table saw to trim a hangnail.
So many knobs and switches...
But I still think they're cool, mind you...
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I had a bunch of them. A 67 Nashville, a Southern Belle (nice guitar) a very early Rock Jet and the daddy of them all a 70's White Falcon.
The White Falcon although not a great instrument to play was very cool to look at.........that's about all it was good for.
The Nashville was a great guitar to play and had a beautiful neck for any style of playing. Though the Bigsby tended to mess with the string tension and made the upper register kind of plunky.
The Southern Belle I never should have sold. That was a fine instrument.
Big mistake letting that one go.
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It is funny - i was wondering the same thing about the Gretsches. I don't care for the electromatics but the pro line are really high quality guitars. I share with probably many people here an aversion for orange and Bigsby's. I also dislike the looks of most Gretsch guitars. They tend to look a bit tacky with all those glitter on it - but beauty is fortunately in eye of the beholder.
However, after plugging one in at a guitar store and playing for a bit i couldn't get over how good it sounded. So amazingly lifely. After going back and forth for a while i decided to get a Gretsch G6120 Chet Atkins in Black (not that i needed practice much more urgently than another guitar, but well, you know how it goes ...). These black Chet Atkins models (btw - i can't stand Chet Atkins music) are rare but exist. It has gold hardware and white bindings and looks stunningly nice. Well, the Bigsby - i got over it and even start to like it. The sound - incredible. Very versatile, very dynamic. Using the "mud switch" and the two Filtertron pickups nine sounds between mellow muffled, bright or twangy are available, some of them definitely suitable for jazz (i know it's mostly in the fingers anyways :-)) - i played really expensive Gibsons 335s side by side and thought the Gretsch sounded so much better. I like beefy necks, so the Gretsch neck is a bit on the slim side, but still comfortable to play. The build quality of the guitar is top notch. Controls - not too many - a three way standard pickup selector, that funny "mud switch" instead of a tone control, a master volume and individual volumes for the pickups (that i probably won't use much). it is fully hollow but has some sound posts that go a long way in eliminating feedback without letting it sound too solid body like.
A more dedicated jazz box would probably be a G6196 (country club), but i wanted a guitar that i can also play rock music with. The country clubs have a solid spruce top (the Chet Atkins is laminated maple) and also exist without Bigsby. The default color is a dark green which i think looks pretty as well. They come with Dynasonic single coils or Filtertrons, both of which sound uniquely "Gretschy" and great (to my ears).
Overall i do think that Gretsch deserves a more thorough look by the jazz playing community.
Anyways, just my 0.02$s.
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Didn't George Van Eps use a Gretsch 7-string for quite a while?
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Brad Shepik out of NYC plays nicely on a single cutaway with single coils. A Tennessean, maybe. His CD "Drip" plays frequently. If he were to play locally, I would go and hear him. At my age, there aren't many I would go see. Martino. McLaughlin. Malone. Sco. Jeff Beck. Dream on.
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Calipornia...gretsch too
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The Gretsch G100CE seems very similar in shape and apparent style to the Godin 5th Ave (and Kingpins). How do they compare? People seem to really tout the Godins but not the Gretsch.
And by the way, I like my Bigsby, and see no problem for having one on a "jazz" guitar. It can be subtle and sustaining. It would be a different story if one was to use, say, a Floyd Rose.
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I've always liked Gretsches, and the Bigsby never bothered me that much. I just didn't like the sound of the pickups they were typically supplied with.
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I have had the G100CE for 2 years and its a fantastic guitar for the money. I think the build quality, on mine at least, is BETTER than the Godin stuff. The stock pickup is pretty lack luster whereas the Godins P90s are pretty decent. Change out the pickup and its a brand new guitar that sounds like something costing twice as much. I highly suggest a Benedetto S6 OR a USA Hand made Kent Armstrong floating PAF. Django jazz guitar books online sells these in a configuration to even coil tap it...yeah thats right. Really awesome guitar for the money. Very lively for a laminate and with the right strings you can even get close to that Wes kind of sound with a floating HB or the PAF....
'Mike
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He is indeed a great player. He is not muich known outside of Scandinavia because he choose to stay in Sweden and provide for his family. Originally Posted by Philco
Jan Johansson (the pianist in the clip) was also a giant. He could swing like noone else, but yet kept true to being a Swede, and he didn't try to copy the American musicians verbatim, but always included somthing musical from his own culture - which is very sympathetical, I think. Sadly, he died around the age of 40 in a car crash. It was a big loss to Scandinavian jazz. He was extremely talented.
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Thanks for the great response, I had no Idea. There really seems to be a bit of a Gretsch bias. That is what I kind of expected. It was a delight to see the videos. I have a bit of love hate relationship with my Gretsch, the price was right and i had the cash in hand. I cannot really justify spending tons of cash on a guitar at my current playing level.
I guess I need to spend some more time in some old threads learning what a jazz guitar really is (bias included). I know any guitar can be a Jazz guitar, but some are more accepted than others.
Thanks Friends!!
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Bucky Pizzarelli once said his Gretsch was his best electric. Can't get a better recommendation than that.
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.... but of course, he has been a Benedetto endorser for two decades by now. Part of the reason the seven string players choose Gretsch back then was that it was the only seven string electric available. I'm sure that George van Eps had to convince them to make one for him, though. Originally Posted by Archtop Guy
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