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I realize any guitar can pretty much play jazz. However I am interested in hearing if anyone uses or is familiar with a 1959 G6122 Chet Atkins Country Gentleman guitar. Gretsch is now reissuing/remaking this model and it has piqued my interest. The guitar has a 1 & 3/4" nut width which is important to me for playing Fingerstyle chord melodies. Anyway, love to get some input.
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01-10-2012 09:55 PM
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I can't see why it wouldn't be good for jazz. Put the right gauge strings on, fiddle with the dials on the amp and you hould have a great tool for playing. Plus, Gretsch guitars have that certain cool vibe and look.
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One of the best built and playing 17" archtop guitars available. You should be able to get a good jazz sound. I consider mine is better than my Gibson CG.
Finish, etc., vastly better than old Gretsches.
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Okay. Here comes a big Gretsch reply. Leave now while you can. Allright then. You've been warned.
While writing this I am listening to "Chet Atkins and Les Paul Masters of the Guitar: Together". I first had this album on vinyl in '76 when it was called simply "Chester and Lester". It is an album of standards w/ just Chet and Les, bass and drums. If you want to taste a wonderful, warm jazz tone emanating out of a Gretsch, served with a little Bigsby on the side, you can do no better for a jazz tone anywhere. I know it's not everybody's cuppa joe, but really, folks, most guys asking about tone around here are looking for this very mainstream entree, and less of the boutique recipes, like fusion. And Les simply shreds on his signature axe, and always spiced with his signature blend of cornball, yet cool, humor - both in his riffs and wisecracks.
What pickups does your Country Gent have? I have a Chet Atkins model 6120 (ORANGE, man!) with Filtertron humbuckers. With d'Addario wound nickel 10's it's easy to dial in a George Harrison-Brian Setzer buffet. But for that Chet Jazz tone, well, it leaves me hungry. And don’t even ask about unplugged. Ughhh. Most planks sound better, though quieter.
I play mainly through a '65 Vibrolux Reverb (as warm and clean as I could ask for. Whew!) set up by Joe Barden to blackface specs. The only difference is stranded vs. solid copper wiring. It ain't worth messin' wid dat. I tweaked all the dials and the best settings I could come up were actually the same as for my G&L plank: Vibrato channel, Bright switch "off", Volume 5, Treble 6, Bass 3, Reverb 3-4. Roll the tone back on the guitar. Note: I play rhythm. With a Pro Plec 351, 1.5mm pick. Comping and simple chord melody, with very little fingerpicking or lead picking. My left hand dexterity is only contortionist-able for bass, banjo and maybe changing spark plugs. But I digress (and you were warned.)
The Big "O" is still kinda harsh to my ears w/ this set-up. The Pro Plec helps, but not enough. Enter TI Swing 13's.
This morning I played the d'Add's one last time to remember the tone and installed these TI flatwounds. (Note: the next bits of superfluous prose are aimed at those, like I, who had never before used TI's.) Silk-wrapped at both ends, they really stick in the tuners making them easy to get started winding. You need all three hands, though, to hold the ferrule on the Bigsby while clearing the bridge and winding the string. This is the first time I ever had a wound third. And the 1st and 2nd strings are golden-colored. Very elegant.
So, I strummed a couple of tunes. "On Green Dolphin St.", "Satin Doll". Yep! We're really getting somewhere now. The amp settings are the same. The guitar is set to Bridge pickup and the "clean" (center) setting. I had to drop the treble side of the bridge a couple of turns and I might have to drop the bass side as well, though it's pretty good right now. I don't know if the relief will have to be changed or not. I'll keep an eye on it the next day or two. Nut and bridge slots are fine.
This is a very sweet tone and much closer to the sound in my head for a laminated-top jazz box. It works. Do this before you swap out pickups or pass on Gretsch altogether. We are all aware that standard music store setup is with extra light strings, perhaps even tuned down for ease of play. If the Gretsch speaks to you, get it. Like any marriage, y’all’ll have a wonderful honeymoon and perhaps a steady, L-T relationship.
One caution about Orange with gold trim, however: Methinks if you show up at a gig with such a rig it’s kinda like showing up at the tennis court with two rackets - You’re expected to be good! ‘til then, it’s just me and this baby at home. The Vibey, too. I’ll play out w/ the Peavey Classic 30, or acoustic direct to PA.
That’s it, Anybody still here?...... tat-tap-tap..... Hey! Is this thing on.....?
Cheers,
Ben
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A simple answer is the best answer to this question IMHOP.
Go to youtube and watch/listen to Cal Collins with Benny Goodman. During the 1970s for a time, Cal Collins had Charlie Christian's old job, and the tool he used was a Gretsch 6120 which is very similar to the Country Gentleman in question.
If you like what you hear of Cal Collins playing in those videos, then the Gretsch is a great jazz guitar. If you don't, then it probably isn't.
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CG should work well for jazz, here's Claes Neeb from Norway playing Chet's arrangement of the Johnny Smith classic:
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CG should work well for jazz, here's Claes Neeb from Norway playing Chet's arrangement of the Johnny Smith classic:
And Jordu:
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Thanks for all the good input. Hey BenThayer, the Gretsch I am inquiring about has TV Jones pups.
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Can't help you there. I've heard that the TV Jones are a nice upgrade. Chances are any guitar one gets needs some tweaking. If you're jonesin' for a Gretsch (pun intended) and the deal feels good, heck, go for it. -BT
Originally Posted by StevieB
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Stevie B - re TV Jones pickups as fitted to 1959 CG - these are a v. close copy of those fitted to Chets 1959 original CG, a supertron (by Ray Butts) in the neck position and a hotter wound filtertron at the bridge. Chet felt the supertron had more fundamentals and presence than the standard filtertron, and his bridge pickup was rewound way back to give a hotter output to equal the neck pickup output. I found to get the cleanest sound from the neck pickup, I had to lower the neck pickup a little.
Its a matter of taste, but generally I prefer the clarity of Gretsch pickups over the 'woolier' Gibsons.
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I "had" a 1960 6120 I used for years....unique sound for sure....
Of course the "new ones" are never as good as the "old ones"..
time on the instrument...pierre
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The Gent is a bit darker than a 6120 and, IMHO, very decent for Jazz. Another alternative is the Eddie Cochran model 6120 which lacks a soundpost, better acoustically, and has a P-90 in the neck. No promises about what would happen if you showed up at a Jazz gig with a Cochran model complete with western trim and a G brand.
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I realize this is an old thread, but I had been wanting to purchase a new ES175 clone, probably most for the looks, but I decided to try my Gretsch 6121-1959 with TV Jones pickups and found it pleasing to my ear for the chord melody rendition of standards I like to play...plus its great for my thumb-style Chet tunes....so I figured I saved myself some money and am just going to stick with it. I also have a 1975 Ibanez L5 copy that I love to play for that style as well. To others, the Gretsch CG might not have the sound they are looking for in jazz, but for my taste, its just fine and sure fits my hands with the wider neck.
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A student of mine had one and I took it a few times to work on it for her. It sure did sound sweet for jazz and the only things I didn’t like were the painter on f holes (could have gone with just no f holes rather than fake ones) and stringing up that Bigsby...boy was that a pain. But it played great and sounded great - we never did figure out what all of those switches did and some might have been broken because a couple didn’t appear to do anything and the other was either broken or a kill switch.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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I think that besides being an absolutely beautiful guitar, the 1959 CG does sound sweet. It was the axe used by Chet at Newport if the few pics you can find are any indication.
Have a listen to the album "After the Riot at Newport" (I think there's a not-great sounding upload at Youtube - yep, here we go) and check out the solos, easy to tell Chet from Hank Garland.
And yes, "Chester and Lester" sure has stood the test of time too!
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I owned two mid-60s CA 6120 Nashvilles. I played gobs of jazz on them both. I greatly enjoyed the sound of the Gretsch on the neck pickup played through a Polytone Baby Brute. There was no doubt that this was a jazz rig, judging by the sound.
At the time, I also owned three Gibson archtops, so it's not as if I was showing up at the gig with a "make do" instrument.
The trick is to get a set of .12-.50 flatwounds on there. My preference, of course, is for TI Swing.
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I always wanted a Gretsch Country Gentleman part because of the Beatle then one of the guys I went to high school with was in a band called the Gretchmen and had one of the three 12-string Country Gent's made for The Monkees, The Gretchmen, and someone else probably Chet.
Cal Collins is only person I heard using a Gretsch for Jazz and his sound was okay, but in general I there is a plinky-ness to the note attack that I don't like for Jazz.
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Pretty sure, IIRC, that I saw both Ed Bickert and Buddy Fite play orange Gretsch Nashville guitars at some point. Bickert, before he went with the Telecaster for which he was most closely associated. With Buddy Fite, I believe it was during a mini-tour of the West Coast around 1971, or so.
In each case, it sort of stuck in my mind because it was a rarity. Bickert, of course, you associate with the Fender Telecaster. The few times I saw Buddy Fite I seem to recall him playing Guild guitars.
Anyone else recall this?
Re: difference in sound between Country Gentleman and 6120, the CG has more bracing--especially under the bridge. IIRC there is a trestle brace under the bridge of the CG that is lacking in the 6120--which is more of a fully hollow body guitar. Although the effect isn't as pronounced as with Gibson, the CG/6120 difference is kind of like the 335/330 difference, in my experience. FWIW, BOTH guitars are excellent, as is the Country Club.
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I have followed Ed Bickert’s career for years and have talked to him about the various guitars he used. I never heard of him playing a Gretsch though. When he first came to Toronto, he played a non-cut Epiphone. There was a picture posted on Facebook just a few days ago of Ed playing the Epiphone. He began playing a single p-90 ES-175 in the 1950’s and he used that for several years. There are some YouTube videos of Ed playing the 175, sounding something like Jim Hall IMO. Like most studio musicians, he had several guitars for different situations, including the telecaster. Eventually he used the telecaster on virtually all of his gigs. He told me that was mainly because it didn’t feedback. Of course, it became his signature sound. Ed also played an early 60’s L5C with a Johnny Smith pickup, when the gig called for that sound. I have attached a picture of him playing the L5.
Keith
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Floatingpickup,
Thanks for the great brief on Bickert. The mind can play tricks, sometimes. I bet I am conflating my memories of Cal Collins playing a Nashville with memories of Bickert playing whatever. When Collins had the gig with Benny Goodman, he used a mid-60s Gretsch Nashville.
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It certainly wasn't a Chet model, but George Van Eps played a Gretsch.
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I probably should invest in a better amp, but right now I am using a little Rolland Street Cube with my Gretsch CG and to my ears it sounds pretty darn good...I also have a couple of Roland Cube 30 amps that I like as well. I have people tell me you have a $3k guitar that you play thru a $150 amp,,,,that doesnt make sense, and they are probably right. Maybe subject for another topic, but I would be open to recommendations for a good amp. Thanks in advance.
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I don't think the price has anything to do with it. If you like the Cubes, use 'em, and don't listen to anyone else. Originally Posted by pcpicker47
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I think you are right ! Thanks, I needed that ! Originally Posted by Boston Joe
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Huh? Roland Cubes happen to be great amps for articulate playing. It it their fault that some boutique picks cost more? Make great music on the amp that works for you.
In my opinion.
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Flatwound strings preference
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