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I had a Fishman Pickup-in-the bridge and a floater on my archtop for years, but only ever played the one or the other. Eventually, the Fishman went since I preferred the electric sound of the floater. However, I got compliments on the Fishman sound from people who do not normally compliment on guitar sounds. The real drawback of the Fishman was that I had set it as low as possible and still the action was a spot too high - which, of course, is not the pickup's fault.
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01-24-2020 08:55 AM
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Are you referring to this? Can it go right into an acoustic amp or pa? Or does it need some kind of preamp boost?
Originally Posted by docsteve
https://www.amazon.com/Fishman-PROAR.../dp/B0002D06ZE
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That’s the one. It can go right into a PA, the output is quite loud (which makes it hard to balance with a magnetic pup). Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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I know you said you didn't want to use a microphone but I don't know of any other way to get a acoustic sound.
How about trying this run through another channel.
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I've never heard a pickup or transducer that sounded good on an archtop.
The acoustic sound of an archtop, and the way that it is different than a flattop, just isn't captured by simply getting the vibrations of the top. It requires "air".
That said, I've managed to use a clip-on lavalier microphone to capture the acoustic sound of an archtop with a floating pickup and make that work. The main difficulty (which is why I don't do it regularly) is that the DeArmond money-on-a-stick rig often contributes some buzzes acoustically, and I don't have a guitar I'm willing to mount it to permanently. That said, I had great luck with a friend's Loar 700 with a 1100 Rhythm Chief Reissue permanently mounted and my DPA. I've done it several times with my 1932 L-5 and a DeArmond FHC, but usually the FHC starts to work loose and I can pickup some kind of vibrations (I think it might be the cable touching the top at times, but I couldn't ever isolate it).
Anyway, if you want some kind of Pat Metheny, new-age-y sound to blend with your magnetic pickup, then a transducer would be fine.
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I am shocked and appalled at the suggestion that I replace me transcendent stair step bridge with a plain old fishman one
were this any other guitar, however... I wonder if I could just use the top half of the fishman? Im guessing not. Looks like a cool solution, though.
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You probably could, as long as the holes line up. The cord comes out of the saddle, the base is just a passive part. Originally Posted by feet
I am shocked and appalled at the suggestion that I replace me transcendent stair step bridge with a plain old fishman one were this any other guitar, however... I wonder if I could just use the top half of the fishman? Im guessing not. Looks like a cool solution, though.
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I know you guys are fans of the mics (probably because they work)' but it looks to be A hassle to position and remove every time and I'm bound to get it caught on something like an idiot.
interesting. Hadn't considered guitar noise. Bet mine can get rattle-y and my technique is trash. Disappointing that the standard options don't work well here, and I'm super not after no laser chorus tones. Guess I have a few things to research here. Originally Posted by campusfive
One Avant grade thought: internal mic? Like the kind of baggs makes. Now that I've figured those out, I wonder if anyone had tried one in an archtop.
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Might be tricky getting it into position yourself without a big round sound hold. But I'm sure there are techniques that guitar techs know. Originally Posted by feet
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You know, there was a guitar in the market with the piezo+magnetic setup: the Yamaha AEX1500, aka the Martin Taylor guitar. It’s a really nice one for finger style, although a little prone to feedback. Here’s some pics:
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didn't think about that. might be a bitch to get it in there through those cats eyes Originally Posted by Woody Sound
didn't know about that one. Looks like they were smart enough to go with their own system. I'll go look for clips to see how the concept works and sounds. Thanks! I suppose the feedback is primarily because of the body and not either of the pickups. Originally Posted by xavierbarcelo
You know, there was a guitar in the market with the piezo+magnetic setup: the Yamaha AEX1500, aka the Martin Taylor guitar. It’s a really nice one for finger style, although a little prone to feedback. Here’s some pics:
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I checked out a few more things when it dawned on me that without a big round soundhole, I would struggle to accommodate not just pickup elements, but internal preamps and battery packs as well. I doubt anyone is willing to build a ship in a bottle here.
Guess that narrows it down some. It might just be passive pickups and external mics for me, then. I remember gretsch made a Jimmie Vaughn version of this that had sound board transducers, i think. Not sure how well that turned out, maybe I should look into it.
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Hello guys,
I have been following this forum for a while, but this is the first time I write.
Let me tell you the situation: I am left-handed, so it's not that easy to find options for me. And I'm into straight-ahead jazz so I really want an archtop guitar.
I was thinking of buying an acoustic one (probably an L-4 or L-7) and installing a pickup on it.
Has anyone already done that? What do you think?
Thank you!
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Hi Joao -- welcome to the group. I'm a lefty too.
The good news is that even as a lefty, you have a lot of choices. If you want to go straight-ahead jazz there are plenty of fine, reasonably priced, lefty-built jazz boxes by Peerless and Eastman. And if you look around on Jerry's Lefty Guitars, Southpaw Guitars, Reverb, eBay, etc., you can find other choices pop up here and there: Godin, Conti, Archtop Tribute, D'Angelico, Gretsch, -- most reasonably priced.
Now if what you want is to take a righty full body non-cutaway archtop and fix it up as a lefty guitar, assuming you don't want to cut a hole into the top for a pickup you have two choices: a floating pickup or internal pickup like K&K. (BTW, when I modify guitars -- especially vintage guitars -- I try to do it in a way that they can be converted back to a righty without too much noticeable changes.)
I have around 10 are full body archtops with "pickups". In some cases I used an internal pickup (K&K), on others I've used floating pickups (generally DeArmonds vintage and new). For controls, in some cases I've used Schatten thumbwheels on the pickguard, other times I've dropped a small volume pot in the round part on the bottom of an f-hole or I've used a control box. There are many ways to convert a righty to a lefty -- you just have to use your imagination! Generally, the most difficult part of converting a righty to a lefty is getting a lefty pickguard and a lefty bridge saddle. These often involves having someone custom make them for you (unless you're good at this type of stuff). Also, you have to decide where to put the input jack. The most conservative choice is probably to replace the bottom strap button with a input jack/strap button like found on may flat-top acoustic/electric guitars.
Attached three photos of full body archtops I've converted to lefties using floating pickups. I haven't included the guitars with internal K&K pickups since they have no change in outward appearance.
They include:
A Loar LH-700 with a DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1000 and Schatten thumb controls under the pickguard.
A righty Godin 5th Ave (modifled lefty) with unknown brand of Johnny Smith size floating pickup with no controls but input jack in the round part of the bottom of the f-hole. It also has a K&K under-saddle pickup as noted with the black cord going to the tailpiece.
You mentioned a L-7; the last picture is a 1937 Gibson L-7 with 1940s DeArmond FCU and control box. In this case I had to re-bend the monkey stick to make it left-handed.
Good luck with your choices and modifications!
Last edited by archtopeddy; 04-08-2020 at 05:52 PM.
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Hello archtopeddy! Thanks for your good reply! You have beautiful guitars. Do you have videos or audio samples of them? I'm curious to know how they sound.
Yeah, I have checked all these websites. I think Heritage and Guild are good "mid range" (cheaper than Gibson) US made guitars. However, as a lefty, I really wanted to know it is to play a Gibson archtop, and if it's possible to get an "electric guitar" sound and no just that acoustic amplified sound, like gipsy jazz guitar. The plan I have in mind now is to get a good L-4 and install a floating pickup made by Boris Dommenget, the jazzbucker. I know how it sounds cause my teacher uses it in his L-5:
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For that type pickup, you can either make, or have made, a left-handed pickguard, or you can dispense with the pickguard and mount the pickup using Blu-Tack or something similar, with the controls being thumbwheels mounted in the f hole. Probably a left-handed pickguard would work better for you, but who knows. Any non-cutaway archtop can be converted to a lefty by just changing the string orientation. That will probably require a new nut, but that's not a major alteration.
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Unfortunatetly, I don't have any audio clips of these guitars. In fact, the Godin has move on, and I've taken the PU off the Gibson L-7 so it's going strictly acoustic these days. Originally Posted by João Neves
I will say this about my guitars -- If I had to go to a gig and wanted a "jazz box", my grab-and-go guitar would be my Eastman AR371 with a Lollar humbucker size CC pickup, or maybe the Loar LH-700 with the vintage DeArmond. Why? Because the Eastman, with it's ES-175 shape is the most versatile in terms of feel and sound, and the Loar if I want something a little different but with an old school vibe.
Realistically though, for most gigs, I'd take my Nash Tele (with Lollars), or even my 1933 Kalamazoo KG-11 with which I've played the last few jazz-type gigs.
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Hi!
Here how a sete of Dogal Bronze flat wound sounds... recorded with a DPA.
By the way, I'm looking for a good piezo archtop pickup too, to use live.
Best one so far was the Barbera Soloist, but it's a little too delicate
Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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Nothing to add to the conversation, but you sound absolutely brilliant on that Mirabella! Originally Posted by mrwoland
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Like the enthusiasm you have for tone. Particularly for a pro player. But seems great tone at the source is always constrained by what a PA does to it. Especially the PA's you'll find in many of the venues out there. I think that's part of why we've seen so many finger-style flattop players (as discussed in forums.. not like there are actual metrics) going over to electronics like the Audio Sprockets ToneDexter. As we get closer with electronics to what we want the audience to hear, the the returns for the extra effort of a microphone, as mangled by the PA, are diminished. Originally Posted by campusfive
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Originally Posted by mrwoland
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Originally Posted by João Neves
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I'm just popping back in because my DPA4099 got damaged, and I was looking at whether to get a new DPA or whether to try something else in the meantime (for example, now Neumann is making a similar style microphone), but because I new the clip set up of the DPA works perfectly on my guitars, and I know it sounds fantastic, so I just bought another 4099. I'm hoping my old one can be fixed, but the mishandling was my own fault, so it's on me if not.
So, we just had a gig celebrating our newest album release, and it was pretty loud, but the DPA4099 did such a great job with keeping the natural acoustic sound of my 1939 L-5 without turning it into something "electric".
Anyway, here's a video: (if the link doesn't start at the guitar solo, it's at 2:34 or so)
Making these mics work is just matter of geometry with the monitors, so that you keep the mic from either picking up the monitor directly, or shooting the monitor into the top of the guitar to reflect into the mic.
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Who's the lap steel player? Nice addition to the lineup.
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