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I am concerned about purchasing a late model Gibson ES-335. With the economy the way it is, I kind of believe that manufacturer's are using the power of their computers to "engineer" their products to make costs as cheap as possible without sacrificing their reputation. I believe this to be true in most industries including guitar manufacturing, especially when you consider the CEOs' missions to keep stock prices and sales up.
I have read that to save money, they too are trimming their workforce and trying to employ cheaper less experienced luthiers with the hopes that the computer aided process will make up for experience.
Because of this and other opinions I have read (whether they are fact or fiction, I do not know), I truly wonder if I am not better off buying a Gibson ES-335 from the early 2000's or some other time.
What do you think? Used older model or brand new?
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01-24-2012 03:25 PM
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What's your budget?
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Before I answer, I think I know where you are going to go Patrick, and that is to mention some of the great alternatives out there.
Originally Posted by Patrick2
But man, I am focused on that Gibson. I know I should not be so stubborn, and should instead be looking for the best sounding guitar, but I confess I am into name brands when it comes to guitars. I know I sound pitiful but it is my vice.
But I am matruing as a guitarist and a person and am now at least open to alternatives that may sound as good or better, yet save me a few hundred dollars to spend on more important things.
Also, I am only going to buy something this expensive if I start gigging extensively. Maybe I will end up in a church choir or maybe in a Jazz group playing small gigs. But then and only then would I consider the step up. Through gigging, the guitar will pay for itself over time, and getting the Gibson will help with "branding" myself (assuming I can play well enough).
Getting back to your question, I could probably relent and pay $2,000.00 to $2,400.00 since the guitar would be a part of my "brand." (We all know that "branding" can result in increased revenue - ask the guy who sold the Pet Rocks back in the 70's!) I also assume there would be a corresponding increase in reliability and quality of sound.
What say you?
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Nope . .. you're wrong. But, I can see how you might have thought I was going to recommend the Heritage alternative to the Gibson ES335. I think everyone here on this forum knows that's just not my style. I was asking purely because there is a wide variance in pricing within the ES335 family. You're concerned about build quality. The ES335 came out in 1958. In those 54 years, the build quality has been sporadically great and sporadically poor. If your budget will tolerate the cost, a Nashville Custom Shop Historic Reissue is just about 99.5% certain to give you as good an ES335 as you could possibly buy. There are also some ES335 being built at the Memphis Gibson plant right now that are pretty damn good as well. I think it would be a mistake for you to shy away from any particular year . . . or favor any particular year. Play as many as you can get your hands on. Buy the one that speaks to you. But, if you can spend up to $2,400 as you say, you should be able to buy a really great ES335.
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I'm told that the 335s out of Nashville are of higher quality and also higher priced. I bought my 335 around 2006, and because of flaws (twisted neck and ridiculously bad neck binding among other issues), I settled on the third one. It was made in Memphis, as I believe the first two were.
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Sorry Pat.
I read your posts closely and I thought you would suggest not only your brand, but also others such as Peerless. I have seen you list several guitars that whetted my pallette.
You and zigzag I think have given me a solution. No buying Gibson ES-335s sight unseen (i.e.) off ebay unless it is one made in Memphis. I have read similar opinions all over the internet. Might be that Nashville gives you a better chance, just have to pay a little more.
And if I do buy sight unseen, make darn sure there is a good return policy so I can have to time try the guitar out.
I am a little afraid to buy used. I remember when one of my guitars fell off the stand and the headstock hit a coffee table. There did not seem to be any damage but I may have created a latent failure that will manifest itself over time. I would hate to sell it to someone and have that be the case.
Thanks for the info, folks!
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Don't be too quick to shy away from buying used. Just enter into a good long dialog with the seller. Your gut instinct will guide you on whether to pursue a purchase on a previously owned instrument. Not all people are pricks. You just need to talk to them and get a good feel for them. I have a Nashville Custom Shop Historic Reissue Gibson 1963 block inlay ES335, figured top. Bought it pre owned. It's magnificent.
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I've got a 2008 59' RI (Nashville) that's great. Love it.
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Sorry but I am going to do the Heritage thing. I'm cracking up because you are having a discussion about how to avoid a badly made Gibson when you could pay 2/3rds the price and get any Heritage 535 site unseen that will equal the best of the 335's.
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I've got a late '76 335 I got new and still have and its been a great guitar no problems and it was my working guitar for a long time.
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My ES-333 (not 335 but close) is from 2004 (Nashville plant!) and is flawless, resonant and from good woods.... don't know if one can automatically assume that was a good year then, but it supports your theory that the early 2000s are ok...
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I hear you, and my brain says you're right, but I'm one of those fools who just needs "Gibson" spelled on the headstock.... Originally Posted by Playerizor
(my ES-333 was even cheaper than a Heritage 535 by the way.......)
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I'm no expert on 335's, but I bought my ' 95 figured top new in Seattle. Thankfully, it has played well, stays in tune and is the right size for me( 6'3"). Early on, I had it feitenized and replaced the stock 59's with van Zandt trubuckers on the recommendation of Mike Lull, who did the work, along with a push pull coil tap.... Really much more versatile that way.
A good buddy of mine has 2(!) stock '59 TBS 335's and mine comes pretty damn close through the same amps for the money, at least enough that I would spend the difference on something else, if I had it lying around.
May still try swapping the van zandts for wcr crossroads, and add a push pull phase switch. Having said all that, if I was starting anew, I would definitely go for a 59 RI (Nashville?) over the new version of my guitar (Memphis? Cheaper and usually figure tops). I may wind up with both someday, just so I can put heavy flat wounds on on of them!
Make sure you can return something you can't play first, but otherwise, have fun shopping. If you like fat necks like I do, you might not have much luck with stuff from the 60's.
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Don't know about quality control but in case you go for an old vintage 335, i know for sure that mine (1966) has an unusually narrow nut width, around 40mm (1''9/16).
It can be a problem for some people.
This narrow nut period is 1965/68.
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335s have always been on the higher end of the Gibson line, and most I've played over the years have been good instruments. But things like neck size, weight, finish, hardware and pickups have varied quite a bit.
I'd be more concerned with these variables than what year the guitar was made. Especially in your budget range. If you can't play the guitar first, ask about these things.
For example, I've played 335s that have no more acoustic output than a solid body, and some that really ring out. The lighter weight ones seem to have the most acoustic resonance, which might be important to you if you practice without an amp.
From late 65 to about 1980, neck width at the nut was 1-5/8" or less, so if you want a wider neck avoid those years. Otherwise, there are good ones in all years, you just have to find the right one.
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Yeah, my '65's got one of the "small" necks, too. Funny, but that's actually all I ever played from 1965-1974, and it always just felt fine to me. (Lotsa milage put on that 335, I'll tell ya.) Nowadays, it does feel comparatively tight, but I do often alternate between several guitars and tend to compensate pretty quickly. Trapeze tailpiece, too. Originally Posted by xuoham
After about 45 years, the bridge flattened out compared to the fingerboard radius, and I replaced it. The pickguard had also distorted quite a bit, curling/cupping upwards (due to the older ply technique used I guess), so I replaced that too when I did the bridge. Nice shape overall besides that. Some subtle finish checking but it gives the guitar an *honest* relic look, I suppose. Gorgeous golden sunburst. Bought it with my paper route money I did. I can't see myself ever parting with her.
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Same for me ! ^ ^ Originally Posted by ooglybong
Except the years, all i played 1990 to 2010 then i bought a used Ibanez Artcore semi-hollow AGS83 as a worry-less, B guitar, fit it some SD Seth Lover (because i wanted the same kind of sound as my dear 335) and what a joy. I guess i was happy and ignorant and the wider and slightly flatter neck of the Artcore was a revelation, like driving on a four lane highway suddenly. The B guitar became my main and it can get very close to the ES335, except for some litlle extra mojo, the weight of history, i guess.
Sadly, the 335 gets almost no play time ...
Pardon my off topic digression !
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It sounds like you're dead set on finding an Gibson ES-335. I think the concerns expressed in your original posting are justified in my experience. The Nashville shop models as others have said are more consistently "good ones" than the guitars from the Memphis factory which I have not been impressed with the quality (that's being a bit kind actually). I am going to suggest what Patrick wouldn't. Get a custom Heritage H-535!
I ordered mine back in 2009. I liked the fact that it was slightly smaller and lighter than an ES-335. It came with a thick 1950s style neck profile, Lollar Imperial pickups, Tonepros hardware, vintage wiring (I actually supplied Heritage with a harness), an ebony finger rest (as opposed to plastic) and many aesthetic options. It was made in Kalamazoo in the traditional Gibson ways by old school artisans.
i know, I know It's NOT a Gibson, it has a funny headstock shape and won't retain its value but it is a GREAT SEMI-HOLLOWBODY for quite a bit less money. So either spend $5k on a new Nashville Custom Shop (Plan A) or play a whole bunch of used Gibsons (Plan B, but have a luthier evaluate it, some can have some significant issues). Plan C is to reassess your headstock constraints and have some old school artisans in Kalamazoo make you a semi-hollowbody your way.
My $.02
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there was a used 63 block ri on the gear page for $3000 a few weeks ago. they go for under $4k new, no? the wildwood demo for that one is great.
but you could spec out a heritage for less. or go yamaha or mij epiphone for even less than that. maybe half. 90s es333 is also a clever way to go about it.
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That's what I did, $1.200 for a Gibby, and that's including pickup upgrade to classic 57s already done by the previous owner. I think they can be had even cheaper in the US, on this side of the Atlantic they're a bit pricier. But I don't see them offered in the used market too often (which is a good sign I think, apparently people stick to them!). I think it's the ultimate player's ES-335. Originally Posted by feet
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How would an Eastman T186 fit in the equation? More Jazz oriented maybe, but quality wise it seems to be up to the challenge. Or the T486 and its low price (with some upgrades perhaps)?
ES335 alternatives cast quite a large shadow over the original Gibson model as far as I can read, especially when weighing prices and quality.
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I don't put much faith in the concept of careful reasoning to pick out a guitar. In my experience, the only issue is whether a guitar I am interested in is the one I want. When I went shopping for a 335 (and I confess, despite positive experiences with other brands, I was interested only in a 335) my main criterion was that it have a natural finish. I have learned that subtle differences between one guitar and another can make one great and the other, mediocre. I spent quite a long time looking for one (you could almost say, 25 years, since I wanted a 335 when I bought my Chet Atkins Country Gent in '82), and I was not going to throw away money on a guitar that was not exactly right.
So I didn't worry about where or when or how it was made, I simply looked at every blonde Gibson 335 I ran across. Finally, in 2009, I found one 300+ miles away on craigslist. I took cash, checked it out, and it was the exact one I had played in my dreams. I handed the owner $1750 and drove 300+ miles home with a smile on my face.
Eventually I deciphered the serial number, and learned that it had been built in Memphis, not long after that plant had opened. Was it good because everybody there was trying really hard to be taken seriously? Or was it an anomaly from a factory full of beginners and goofballs?
What difference does it make? It's mine now, and its history is of little interest.
And yeah, it's as good as I always thought it would be.
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It seems that with 335's, if you find one that really sings unplugged, it makes a really singing electric.
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that's consistent with what they go for here. i let mine go for less than that several years back, before the secret was really out. cool guitar, but i preferred the elitist sheraton, so i turned the es333 into a g6118t. the neck was a little chubby and the frets a little too tall for my liking. had a bartolini tuck pup and a tv jones powertron plus in it. nutty combo, but it sounded awesome. new pots and with push pulls, too. wonder how i'd feel about it now. had mine been a brown one, i might have thought harder about keeping it. Originally Posted by Little Jay
i'd love to take another crack at a 335 type, but the redundancy policy forbids it. they are so cool, though. those block reissues are tough to look at. and the clips were so pretty.
Last edited by feet; 07-23-2013 at 09:20 AM.
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Just bought a brand new Nashville 2013 ES-335 sunburst - the 63 reissue - and I put Thro Bak 101 pups in it........what a killer guitar.
I tried three Memphis ones but gave up on Memphis. Everything about the Nashville guitars is outstanding & wqorth every penny. I think Gibson ( Nashville ) is turning out some of the best built & best looking guitars since the early 60's.
There is not one thing I could find to complain about.
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