Gypsy Jazz Guitar Neck Questions

[Karl Kerfoot]

Hey Everybody,

I am researching gypsy guitars. I am familiar with the price range of beginning, mid-level, and high-end guitars. I am also familiar with the differences between D hole and Oval. There are still a few things that people seemed to be concerned about that I can't find very much information on...

1. I'm looking for a gypsy guitar that has a neck that might be similar or only slightly wider than an acoustic guitar neck. I've been told that the old Selmer design is almost like a classical guitar - very big... Any suggestions?

2. What are the main differences between the long scale and short scale necks???


THANKS!

Karl

[oldane]

I have only searched information about Gitane guitars, but the information you seek is on various web sites, for examle this one:

Gitane Gypsy Jazz Guitars - Tabular Summary

For the Gitane models, the following apply, according to the web site:

1) Nut width is either 1 3/4" or 1 7/8". Since you want it to be close to a "normal" archtop you should go for 1 3/4".

2) Scale length is either 25 1/4" or 26 5/8". The first is within the norm for jazz guitars, the latter is a little longer than we are used to on archtops.

You will no doubt find the same kind of information about other makes on the net. Or contact the maker/dealer and ask. Reliable makers/dealers reply to their mail promptly. If not, go elsewhere.

[superswing]

It's usual for the D hole guitar to have the shorter scale length, 12 frets to the body, and the wider fingerboard.
The oval hole usually has 14 frets to the body, longer scale length etc.

I have both types and each presents difficulties for switching from a typical archtop.

[AlohaJoe]

Canadian Luthier Shelley D. Park is making instruments with 1 11/16ths" nut width and a slender carve. Each is different however and she will make necks to order. She makes long scale (670mm/26.5") instruments in both petit bouche (oval hole) and grande bouche (D-hole) configuration. Her shorter 640mm scale length (about 25 1/4") 12-fret guitars are exclusively grande bouche. Her guitars are in the higher price range, but each one is hand made and stunning. Her finish work has no peer. Historically, she has made about 12 instruments a year and they are regarded as among the best in the world.

I was fortunate to get a used one of her 12-fret Maple instruments a few years ago and haven't regretted it for a second.
Shelley D. Park :: Gypsy Jazz Guitar Luthier in the Style of Selmer Maccaferri

[PTChristopher]

If her work sounds and plays half as good as it looks, then they strike me as a great deal even at the price (which is really in line with the market in my opinion).

Very fine stuff, and great to see. Thanks for the link.

Chris

[AlohaJoe]

Here is the first of a remarkable short stop-action video series of Shelley making a long-scale Maple petite-bouche guitar. This is the instrument that was auctioned at DjangoFest Northwest in 2009. Of course the musical background is Django.

Here is a short vid of Stochelo and Noushe Rosenberg playing Park guitars before one of the shows at DjangoFest. that same year I think.

PS, I'm not connected to her in any way other than being an owner and huge fan. Shelley is also a very accomplished rhythm guitarist, having played for many years with Pearl Django.

[PTChristopher]

Thanks for the links.

>>> short vid of Stochelo and Noushe Rosenberg

In all honesty I really wish Gypsy players would lighten up on the harsh washboard sound. Great players, just not my taste for sound.

I understand it's the modern interpretation of the style. But I have played some reasonably good Maccaferri style guitars and they seem well capable of plenty of volume and dynamics without sounding like someone stepped on a cat.

OK, overstated I guess.

Still really great looking guitars from the Park website. Thanks.

Chris

[AlohaJoe]

In all honesty I really wish Gypsy players would lighten up on the harsh washboard sound... I have played some reasonably good Maccaferri style guitars and they seem well capable of plenty of volume and dynamics without sounding like someone stepped on a cat.

It is an acquired taste, and you are right, many of the newer Gypsy-jazz guitars are even capable of enough warmth and nuance to play fingerstyle nicely. I think when people are playing "in the style' they pick close to the bridge to emulate that crisp tone that Django had in part because he played hard on an all laminated Selmer with high action.

I actually got to play a late 40s Selmer a while back and I hated it. Huge neck, heavy laminate construction... you had to be more brutish than me to get a good sound out of it. I think many of the new guitars are better and more versatile instruments.

It eventually sold for close to the $30,000 he was asking... not to a working musician I'd guess.

[Tele295]

You really have to attack a gypsy guitar to get it to open up, and use a monster fat pick. Those guitars don't respond to the same pick and technique one might use on an American flattop.

[Gibouille]

Hello,

I am absolutely not an expert but
I'm not sure a wider nut is such a good idea in Gypsy music (at least for rythm) because you should absolutely never use a barre in gypsy music (won't allow for sufficient pressure with high gauge high action string and overkill strumming and won't allow enough control when selectively muffling strings depending on wether you want to accentuate the bass or treeble strings).

I have a jazz archtop (Eastman AR371 CE) and I'm finding it impossible to play the kind of chords where the thumb frets the bass notes and some other fingers need to fret several strings each.

I wonder if a narrower neck wouldn't actually help.

Should I keep trying to play those chords on my eastman or am I wasting my time ?

I'd rather wait till I can play a few gypsy chords before I start shopping for a gypsy guitar because I would rather know what I'm doing when trying them out.

[mr. beaumont]

WELL...

Django used partial barres all the time...

I've never had any issue playing gypsy chord "shapes" on a wider neck...the thumb doesn't have to be used (but it can)

To answer the OP's initial questions...

1. Generally, the petit bouche comes with a more "standard" nut width and the grande bouche are wider. Petit bouche are long scale for lead, grande are short scale for rhythm.

Many builders also build long scale grande bouche, which are kind of a hybrid. This is actually my favorite style...really cool comprimise between the two tones...

2. Long scale is almost a must for lead...really adds tension, which ends up being VOLUME.

You can pretty much play rhythm on either, but playing rhythm on a long scale you might need to back off a little bit if things get too loud...

[Chazmo]

The wider nut width on GJ guitars never bothered me, but the long scale--26 5/8"--drives me crazy. I can switch back and forth between the 25 1/2" and 24 3/4" scales easily, but I could never get used to the long scale of my Gitane. Nice guitar for the money, but I sold it because I couldn't play at my best on it.

[jazzbow]

Here's some pix of a UK made Le Voi petite bouche nut width.

Also it has the non adjustable box section truss rod and a chunky neck

[floatingpickup]

It is an acquired taste, and you are right, many of the newer Gypsy-jazz guitars are even capable of enough warmth and nuance to play fingerstyle nicely. I think when people are playing "in the style' they pick close to the bridge to emulate that crisp tone that Django had in part because he played hard on an all laminated Selmer with high action.

I actually got to play a late 40s Selmer a while back and I hated it. Huge neck, heavy laminate construction... you had to be more brutish than me to get a good sound out of it. I think many of the new guitars are better and more versatile instruments.

It eventually sold for close to the $30,000 he was asking... not to a working musician I'd guess.

The original Selmers had solid tops and laminated back/sides.
Keith

[Cmmandscratch]

I am wondering if anyone knows of a short scale gypsy jazz guitar that
doesn't have the d hole.

[callouscallus]

Patenotte 254