Duncan Jazz vs '59 Pickups

**ruiner54** · 03-15-2012, 02:04 PM

I reckon I will be finally buying a replacement neck pickup for my Epi Joe Pass this weekend. I just noticed that the local music shop has Duncan 'Jazz' and '59' pickups in stock.

Any input on these? I am looking for a Joe Pass-ee type sound.

This will help decide if I will buy a cheaper pickup locally or if I have to order then I will go out and buy something more expensive like a Ben. A6.

Thanks in advance

**jorgemg1984** · 03-15-2012, 05:09 PM

I never tried them but when I was shopping for a pickup everyone told me to stay away from the Duncan Jazz - apparently the only jazz in them is in the name. The 59 is supposeds to be a good pickup, I know Rosenwinkel uses one.

**Gabe** · 03-15-2012, 05:16 PM

The Jazz really isn't for jazz, not a nice pickup. The 59 on the other hand is perfectly acceptable, not the best out there but certainly not bad.

TH · 03-15-2012, 06:16 PM

I have used the 59 and really liked it, now I use the Jazz and consider it much closer to the sound I really need. Pickups are a matter of personal choice.
It sounds like everyone else out there has a stronger opinion than me, I play jazz, and it comes closer to the Guild pickup sound I really like.
My advice, don't take my advice. Get the 59, it sounds like that's what the majority likes and everybody knows what you read and what the majority reads is the best.
Hmmm, Jazz sucks, 59 rules. Sounds about right.
David

**jorgemg1984** · 03-15-2012, 06:25 PM

David trying pickups is not cheap or easy - unless you know someone who has the pickup and is willing to remove it and install it on your guitar. So you sort of have to rely on other's opinion (which is actually the point of the forum).

Of course nothing like having your own opinion, there are some products that have a lot of good reviews here on the forum that I do not like at all so the opposite must also be true (btw if the Jazz Duncan sounds like my original Guild pickups I would say they are NOT GOOD).

**PTChristopher** · 03-15-2012, 06:32 PM

>>> erybody knows what you read and what the majority reads is the best.

yeah, well I read somewhere that someone's guitar came all like notgooded from the duncanjazz

its a bad pu fir sure thats what I think defintely....

and its why I can only capitalize I..... and cant hit a period unless it is a whole bunch of them.........

yeah, bad duncan jazz.....yeah......

I read it too... just a second ago while I was typing..............Ithink

OR

What's the data on them say? Magnet type? Resonant frequency?

And if we could get to mere hearsay (as opposed to several layers past hearsay), what has specifically displeased players about the Duncan Jazz?

Chris

**newsense** · 03-15-2012, 06:48 PM

I have replaced the neck pickup on my last two guitars with an SD Jazz (an Ibanez AS93 and a Godin Flat Five). In both cases the Jazz was far more articulate than the stock items it replaced. The flip-side to this is that it is quite bright compared to what many regard as an ideal jazz guitar sound. As I play a wide range of styles on the same axe, I find that it is a good basis to build a range of different tones, (you can't put back treble that was never present, but you can cut it if it is !). However, it also means I have to compromise the tone on most styles.

Although I have not played an SD 59, from what I have read I believe it would be more mellow than the SD Jazz.

Seymour is widely quoted as saying that out of all the pickups he makes, the Jazz, in combination with a JB at the neck, is his favourite. However, this sounds more like a classic rock setup than a jazz combination.

Hope this helps.

TH · 03-15-2012, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

David trying pickups is not cheap or easy - unless you know someone who has the pickup and is willing to remove it and install it on your guitar. So you sort of have to rely on other's opinion (which is actually the point of the forum).

Of course nothing like having your own opinion, there are some products that have a lot of good reviews here on the forum that I do not like at all so the opposite must also be true (btw if the Jazz Duncan sounds like my original Guild pickups I would say they are NOT GOOD).

Yes, and that's an opinion you got from experience. It's not something you read from someone else that sounded good because they heard a third hand rumour from somebody's brother. That's the point I'm making.
I use a jazz. I like it. What's my setup? What am I after? What kind of guitar is it on? These are all factors and "everybody told me" is just that. That's why I said go with that opinion. I'm only one person. By the way, the Guild sound, it's what Jim Hall likes. It's what Kurt likes. I should know, I've worked on Kurt's guitars for him. I rebuilt a Guild he played and loved, he did like that sound. But see? That's just a person's opinion.
If you buy a Duncan and you don't like it, they let you return it. I don't question other people's opinions when I ask for it, and it's based on their experiences but I wonder about the value of conveying others' reports of things they have never tried. It's a little like saying I wouldn't marry a brunette because some people I met on the subway read in a magazine that successful people tend to be married to blondes. There is popular third hand opinion and there is personal experience. That's all I'm suggesting you keep in mind.
In all fairness, I know it's more trouble than a quick opinion, but pick choice, string choice, pickup height, acoustic quality in the final sound, wrap and brand of string, they all matter a lot and a pickup will work with those factors and not in a generic way. Notice I didn't even mention the guitar, that's a huge factor. I've had 59's that work nicely in a maple topped laminate that sounded good in a spruce top too, but the customer said he wanted a little more bite that would bring out the soft woodiness of the spruce acoustic sound. I put in something with a little more high end frequency response, a Duncan Jazz replacing the 59, and the jazz box came alive. Now that same pickup I would never in a million years put into a Les Paul. No magazine article told me that. But it's a personal story and it's true. That's not worth a lot, but maybe a moment's consideration.
I'm still serious too, in saying go with the 59. It's a lot closer to the smooth warmth of the PAF. But while smooth is nice, there are other acquired qualities in peoples' playing. The Jazz can be just the tool for bringing them out. Can be. Your guitar, find affinity with people with similar sensibilities.

Originally Posted by newsense

Although I have not played an SD 59, from what I have read I believe it would be more mellow than the SD Jazz.

.

For sure! I'd say that's a good qualifying statement.
David

**jorgemg1984** · 03-15-2012, 06:57 PM

David no point going on I just wanted to say that when I was on a quest for a pickup the Duncan Jazz got too many "stay out of it" comments. I did said I didn't tried one. Now back to the subject. (I love my Guild 65 X-5'00 but the stock pickups were hideous for my taste)

TH · 03-15-2012, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

David no point going on I just wanted to say that when I was on a quest for a pickup the Duncan Jazz got too many "stay out of it" comments. I did said I didn't tried one. Now back to the subject. (I love my Guild 65 X-5'00 but the stock pickups were hideous for my taste)

Were they the blister pickups? It could be there are people that tend towards the old Guild blister sound and those that tend toward the old Gibson PAF sounds. They will both say their's is the sound they like, of course.

I respect your tastes, they are what allow you to be yourself.

Now wait 'til I open a thread about "white wine or red wine, which is the best?"
David

**bluemood** · 03-15-2012, 07:06 PM

I have a Seymour duncan Sh2 jazz neck and SH4 JB in the bridge of my Parker and I would not change a thing.
The neck pickup is very nice sounding clear no mudd almost a single coil in away but with more, overdrive nicely.
The JB very middy pickup but when I want to use a bridge pickup I want it to cut like a razor, comes close to a tele bridge pickup.
These work very well split as single coils .
I have a seymour Duncan SH1 59 and a SH14 custom 5 I would put them in and other guitar but right now I only use my Parker for everything jazz,blues,rock .

**jorgemg1984** · 03-15-2012, 07:07 PM

They were a special sized humbcuker - bigger than mini humbuckers but smaller than regular humbuckers. Went with Bare Knucles Stormy Mondays (PAFs), I love them.

**life_with_a_song** · 03-15-2012, 08:28 PM

I'd decided that I hate the Jazz several years ago when I tried one out in an ES-175 style guitar (the American Fender D'Aquisto models that were made for a few years), in the pickup swap rotation. Took it out within hours of fighting it to get what I could get out of pickups like the '57 Classic, Seth Lover, or others of that kind. Everything people have said about it: brittle, too much clarity, not enough complexity, stale (like every DiMarzio I rotated through), etc. In hindsight, if I'd known then what I know now, I would have also rotated pots and caps as well, but. . . .

Fast-forward about twelve years. I get a Godin LG Signature, and lo-and-behold there is a Jazz at the neck. It sure sounded good at the store, but I already had plans to change it out once I got it home. By this time, I'd drawn a hard and fast rule for myself that I could only love PAF-style 'buckers with an Alnico II magnet for that creamy, smoky, smooth, mellow, etc., etc., sound that I was getting from my other guitars.

Well, I plugged the LG into my amps, fooled around with it for a few minutes, and--too my amazement--was getting exactly what I was after--and with a bit more clarity in the basses which seemed to mimic an electric bass when playing fingerstyle (I quit flatwounds years ago and have not looked back from roundwounds again). Can get these same tones I love with my picking style, also. I was in love, and to this day would not change this pickup out for anything--and this is a dedicated jazz guitar for me.

And by the way, the LG has a mahogany body with a maple top (like a Les Paul), and the warmth of the mahogany may account for some of this pickup's characteristics in this guitar. That said, I wouldn't dare put a Jazz in my archtops again. For that, give me a '57 Classic, Seth Lover, StewMac Parsons Street (yes--they're a great pickup, as well, and I liked them better than the Seth Lover), Tex Tone, or JS Moore pickup paired with a spruce-topped jazz box, and prepare for melted butter cream smoked chocolate niceness all day long.

Just one man's experience.

PS: I am still curious about Lollars. I had an imperial in a Yamaha box that played like butter--but then the pickup was dry and stale and one-dimensional no matter what I did with it for weeks. I'd still give them a chance, though. It may have been the guitar.

**Flyin' Brian** · 03-15-2012, 09:42 PM

It's almost impossible to answer this question. Everybody's ears and idea of what a good sound is is different etc., etc., etc.

For instance, I don't like humbuckers of any kind when compared to the Fralin P-92 that I installed in my Heritage Sweet 16.

Chacun a son gout, and to find your choice, it takes time and and money.

**PTChristopher** · 03-15-2012, 10:15 PM

If pickups have the same morphology (coil size and shape), and the same magnet structure, then comparing the resonant peak is a very good indicator of the general "tone". A higher frequency resonant peak will be a brighter pickup.

If:

- SD Jazz and 59 PUs both have the same structure (garden variety HB),

and,

- the same Alnico V bar magnets, and SD has not done anything to charge the magnets differently (they will tell you if you call and ask)

then

- comparing the resonant peak will be very useful info.

The SD chart:

Seymour Duncan

**krusty** · 03-15-2012, 10:18 PM

ruiner54: PM me your address and I'll send you a brand new Jazz free of charge (I'm in Toronto). If you don't like it, pass it on. It's just been sitting around my house for a year or so, and I can't see using it in the foreseeable future.

**PTChristopher** · 03-15-2012, 10:35 PM

Oh yeah, another one of those Nigerian Prince offers for a free pickup - then you need to send your pickup first to "cover the copper wire exchange requirements". I have been burned sooooo many times by this scam,...

**Insufferable_Rhythm** · 03-15-2012, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

If pickups have the same morphology (coil size and shape), and the same magnet structure, then comparing the resonant peak is a very good indicator of the general "tone". A higher frequency resonant peak will be a brighter pickup.

Not in all cases. The resonant frequency can exceed the frequency response of an amplifier, resulting in a darker pickup in practice.

**PTChristopher** · 03-15-2012, 10:53 PM

I_R,

Thanks, I understand what you mean.

I have never run into this as a practical distinction. Can you describe an actual case where the PU with the higher resonant peak did not sound brighter than the one with the lower?

**krusty** · 03-15-2012, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

Oh yeah, another one of those Nigerian Prince offers for a free pickup - then you need to send your pickup first to "cover the copper wire exchange requirements". I have been burned sooooo many times by this scam,...

Uh, no. It's legit. You might be surprised also by the literally $1000s worth of bicycle parts I have given away locally over the years as well. I don't need the $, and am willing to mail it from Toronto to the east coast where the OP lives.

TH · 03-15-2012, 11:15 PM

And if the OP does not like it he can send it to me. I love them, honestly. Or I'll put it in a customer's guitar next time he/she wants more definition from their PAF style. Anyway, I am glad to see that despite the fact that there are no easy answers, there's informed speculation going on.
By the way, I got a Schechter with a Duncan Design Jazz pickup in it (wound overseas to Duncan Spec, sporting the Duncan name but none of the Duncan parts... not good.) This I WILL attest to, if it's not from Duncan's shop, it's not Duncan's sound.
By the way, I gave a whole bicycle away, custom built frame, fitted with full Campy record parts. But I didn't feel good about it. The person cut my favourite lock in the process. And life goes on...
David

**newsense** · 03-16-2012, 04:11 AM

Originally Posted by krusty

BTW, does anyone need a SD Trembucker (JB with F-spacing)? Same deal.

Krusty - is the TB-4 covered or uncovered ?
I discovered too late that the string spacing on my Flat Five is more TB than JB ! As the standard spaced JB doesn't appear to have any effect on string-to-string volume, I am unlilkely ever to buy a new TB-4 to replace it. However, if I can genuinely provide you a service by freeing up space in your box of spare parts, then I would gratefully accept. I can swap for the SH-4 (standard spaced JB), a 10 year old Godin HB of unconfirmed origin (i.e. possibly a Schaller, rebadged by Godin) or a pair of used 26" MTB tyres (right hand drive only !)

**mongrel** · 03-16-2012, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by ruiner54

I reckon I will be finally buying a replacement neck pickup for my Epi Joe Pass this weekend. I just noticed that the local music shop has Duncan 'Jazz' and '59' pickups in stock.

Any input on these? I am looking for a Joe Pass-ee type sound.

This will help decide if I will buy a cheaper pickup locally or if I have to order then I will go out and buy something more expensive like a Ben. A6.

Thanks in advance

I have had my Epi Joe Pass since 2007 and have had several pickups in it. I can categorically state that any after-market pickup you replace the factory neck pickup with will be a huge improvement.

**krusty** · 03-16-2012, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by newsense

Krusty - is the TB-4 covered or uncovered ?

It's uncovered. You are aware, though, that the TB-4 is physically longer than a regular humbucker, and comes with its own mounting ring that is not a direct replacement for a regular one (holes to mount to the guitar are wider spaced than a normal hb)? If the guitar did not come with an F-spaced pickup, retrofitting one will be a chore.

**newsense** · 03-16-2012, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by krusty

It's uncovered. You are aware, though, that the TB-4 is physically longer than a regular humbucker, and comes with its own mounting ring that is not a direct replacement for a regular one (holes to mount to the guitar are wider spaced than a normal hb)? If the guitar did not come with an F-spaced pickup, retrofitting one will be a chore.

Uncovered is good, but I'll check whether the dimensions are compatible with my current mounting ring, which is a SD Triple Shot for coil splitting. I'll get back to you.