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Jack,
I know that we've touched upon this before, but I take great exception to your blanket characterization that a Samick Greg Bennett Royale RL2 as:
"similarly constructed to the budget comins instruments that are going for about 3x the price. The comins have better pickups and hardware but the Royale line is a very cheap way to get a fantastic instrument."
The Samick may indeed represent a great value as an affordable option for those of limited means. They should stand on their own for what it is. Why continue to make a comparison to a guitar that when I last checked, you had not played (perhaps this has changed?).
The Comins GCS-1 is a far better instrument in its design, construction/finish and hardware in my view (They also come with a case). Quality of finish, binding and hardware all make a difference and add to the cost of goods. The Comins guitars are far lower in their manufacturer and are made in smaller batches.
Comins GCS-1
Samick Greg Bennett Royale RL2
The GCS-1 was specified/designed for working musicians by a master luthier and great jazz player. Each instrument is personally set up by Bill in his Pennsylvania workshop (seen this personally) so they play like a dream (They are balanced and I have played one on two occasions). All of the little aspects add up to an extremely playable instrument.
The fact that they both come from Korea, are single cutaways and are CNC'd bodies does not make them the "same". Charactering them in the way that you did, does an information disservice to anyone considering buying one of Bill's Korean made instruments (Why by one for $1,499 when the other is $375 if they are similar?).
To me, the real comparative question is why does a Roger Sadowsky Semi-Hollowbody cost 3x a Comins GCS-1. Why not compare the RL2 to that as well?
My $.02
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02-24-2014 07:43 PM
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i didn't say they were the same. I said they shared similar design characteristics and they do. I didn't say the royale was as good as the comins by any means.
And regarding your sadowsky point, the comins and the royale share the same construction/design. The sadowsky is completely different.
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Fair enough Jack…
Perhaps I reacted so strongly because it was the second time in the last few months that you have implied that they are the same aside from differences in hardware. I am just a bit sensitive regarding a friends work.
That being said, I do agree with you that Roger and Bill’s semis are indeed constructed differently.
The Sadowsky is a laminate top, a chambered center block and usually weigh about 6 lb. (Japan) and a Comins is a CNC chambered mahogany solid body with a laminated sapele (back) and maple cap (top) and weighs about 8 lb (Korea).
I made the comparison because it was a similar "3x" relative price comparison to the one that you were making and the quality of the two instruments is far closer than the comparison with the RL2. While the chambered CNC approach is in common as you rightly point out, all the other aspects of their design, build and execution set them apart substantially from a playability and tone perspective whereas while the Sadowsky and the Comins have differing core body fabrication schemes, they are far closer from a quality and playability perspective.
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here's my son from 10 years ago playing his samick royale...Sounds pretty good. It's completely stock.
He graduates from Duke with a law degree in may...
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Wow Jack. Lots to be proud of there.
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Hi a few yrs ago I bought a black greg bennett rl2 that was bought at the factory in INDONESIA by the head guy at LANHAM MUSIC here in st. joseph mo, about an hr north of kansas city mo. small music store but they actually went there and purchased this ONE GUITAR.....NEVER SOLD ANY OTHERS BY GREG BENNETT FOR SOME REASON.....stupid mistake I say. Been playing for over fifty yrs. Not that i am a Eric Clapton, i just play for my own enjoyment. But i have played quite a few guitars, fender, gibson, stagg, epiphone, you name it, probably held it, played it or drooled over it. My RL2 is one of my prized possessions...it it that good. look at the website video on how they make them....solid block of wood, cut out the air chambers, top and bottom get thin wood glued onto it and then bindiing, neck included..tone? best I have played. I have seen a nice black rl2 that a guy put a bigsby on.....that was a great idea..sounded wonderful. he has another one where he changes the pick ups, not so good...like orig pups better. I gotta say one of the things I regret from younger days. I worked in illinois near chicago with a guitarists in the northern illinois university jazz band, nice guy and i would give him a hard time about jazz instead of liking southern rock like i did. all the chords and scales i could have learned...dumb young guy me....if i ever saw him again i sure would like to apologize.
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I have an RL-4 and it's pretty damn good.
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I recently spied that my local music store has a Greg Bennett Lasalle JZ-4 at a decent price. Ever since I missed out on a Epi Emperor Regent a few years ago I have always hankered for a 17" with a floater. I am going to go play it this week but I was wondering what experience people have had with the JZ-4 and the GB Lasalle range in general.
I believe I'm right in saying that they were made by Samick in S.Korea. I presume that the pup and electronics in general might be a weak point.
At the other end of the size spectrum I also spotted the same store has the Fender Modern Player thinline tele too. Always a danger I might get seduced by that!
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I always liked them. Yes they are Samick built, the factory that has made guitars that have some of the best known names on the headstock, like Ibanez for instance. What I liked about the Bennetts is they did fit them with nice hardware and because they had the Samick name on them, I always felt they went a little extra to distinguish themselves from their body clones on the market.
Good buy for a good instrument. And the hardware is standard size so you could upgrade easily if you wanted. But you've got a good instrument to begin with. Give it a good work out. If it feels good, feel confident that it's built well.
But do make sure the body size feels good, and that you can comfortable play all you play on it.
David
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Well the price is right, but the one I had sounded completely dead, with no wood tone. Played well though.
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That was my experience, as well (though with the two humbucker JZ2)
Originally Posted by Woody Sound
Last edited by rictroll; 06-05-2016 at 10:12 AM.
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Very good Jazzbox, in terms and playability, lutherie, fit and finishings.
Regarding tone, I don't agree with what was stated above, it has a nice woody character you may liek/ dislike however.
Many of JZ4 owner made the conversion floating PU >Set-in PU, but again it's a matter of taste.
JZ4 should be easy to find at a cheap price in the second hand market.
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I've only played one for about 30 minutes and the instrument felt very "dead" to me. Great playing guitar, and actually sounded quite good through and amp. There just wasn't anything that made me feel like I was playing an archtop, the acoustic response and connection with the instrument. I'd buy another Artcore before the GB.
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It is not intended to be an acoustic guitar. It is intended to look like an acoustic guitar. Floating pickups on heavy laminated full depth guitars is a silly idea, but they seem to find buyers.
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The one I played, years ago now, was quite responsive and I distinctly remembering it to feel quite alive. But that may have been a good set up and a live set of strings. These things do make a huge difference. My own custom guitar is my dream come true, and it's everything I've ever wanted, but every so often I find myself thinking "What's happened here? Why does it feel so dead?" and I know it's time to adjust for seasonal changes or change strings. Once that's done, new guitar!! Originally Posted by Woody Sound
A laminate guitar will not compete well with even a decent quality solid instrument, but on the other hand, set up right and once bonded with a player who knows how to work with it, it'll be superior to anything if allows you to play. Bottom line, set it up well, see if you can work with it, if it inspires you, and if so, you've got an instrument of music.
I've always been a solid top player. ES-175's never inspired me. But I never bonded with them. My hands never morphed into a laminate guitar and had it disappear. If you are a player who does, then you will get the inherent musical potential out of that guitar. The JZ I played had that potential. The rest is up to you.
I remember when Mark Whitfield started out. He played an old Ibanez laminate. I've known those instruments. To me, there's no joy. But he must've had it set up and loved that guitar because he and the guitar made music.
Good luck
David
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I owned one for a couple of years. I always received compliments on the tone. I think it's a very good sounding instrument and well constructed as well. Very under rated in my judgment.
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I tried a JZ-2?? (it had twin humbuckers) and was very impressed with how it played. The tone was good too. The JZ-4 looks like a nice guitar. I agree that there's probably not much point having a floating pickup on a fairly heavy laminated guitar, but at least you can install any pickup you want should you want to go to a set in pickup.
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The Samick Greg Bennett Royale series are also great semi-hollows for the money. Well-built, very pretty to look at, and with Duncan-designed pickups, also good-sounding. A good instrument to customize, as I did, with MIDI-pickups from RMC, without worrying about drilling or cutting into an expensive instrument; in fact, installing custom features in one of these most likely increases its value. Versatile instruments ready for all styles of jazz, rock, pop and funk.
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I have one; bought in 2003-4. Great guitar; well made and great attn to detail. I hated the pickup though, so after about ten years I switched it to a Lollar Johnny Smith. It's a keeper...
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I've got one of these recently.
I own a whole variety of guitars, including 2 hollowbody (Gretsch 5420t with Gibson 57 pickup, and Epi WildKat with P90s), a Gitane DG300 (Jorgenson), Center Block Gretsch and a Jumbo acoustic among others (15 in total) so I had plenty to compare to. (last pic, that was before I got it, and also a cabinet for the ZT lunchbox)
My findings:
- The built quality is up there or even perhaps better than my Gretsch electromatics. It even has binding on the headstock. No flaw whatsoever in the finish. Even around the F holes.
- The fretboard job is IMHO the best I've gotten on a guitar so far, it came with a ridiculous low action, and no buzz. (I raised them a bit cause it was truly ridiculous)
- It looks and feels like a proper Jazz guitar, for a swing big band and such. Elegant, very elegant. The finish looks like the guitar has a metallic (copper) coat but is just the wood dye they used, certainly classy.
- The tailpiece is way better than many I've seen on much more expensive guitars.
- The pickup sounds beautiful through my ZT Lunchbox + Egnater 117x cab. It appears to be quieter than other pickups on my guitars but it might be also the fact the guitar body is big and loud by itself.
- Acoustically, with Thomastik 13's this guitar rings wonderfully. Nothing to envy Benedetto. I've seen videos of Barry Greene and his 20.000 Benedetto and the sound is pretty much the same.
- The price....I can't believe this guitar is Euro 500 new....it's only cause is built with Laminated wood.
- Grover Tuners, great pickup and overall parts quality.
I'd say, if you're looking for a good vintage Jazz guitar with all the right pieces and a good price this is the one to get hands down. I was tempted with others ranging around 1000 like the Emperor and the Gretsch G100CE BK but once I saw this one I knew it was the right one.
Last edited by Sacco; 12-26-2016 at 10:09 AM.
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I love my JZ2 with Thomastik strings. Excellent jazz tones and flawless construction. I would think the JZ4 would be good as well. I have not changed pickups on my JZ2 although some might thick it necessary. The floater on the JZ4 should be easy to upgrade if need be.
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I have a JZ3 with TI 12 jazz flats. I don't play it much anymore, but the fit and finish is really way beyond what I was expecting at the price point. It is a little heavy in my opinion, but the sound through my amp is great. The finish seems very thick compared to my other archtops and it is not a real "acoustic" player (maybe if you used a pick?) But amped, it's better than OK in my opinion. Good luck whatever you choose.
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Owned and played one for about a year. It was too big for me so I sold it. I thought that plugged in, it was as good as any higher priced archtop that would run about 3 or 4 times the price. It really sounded great through an amp. Unamplified it was pretty dead, but like I say, through an amp it would be tough to beat for the money. I also think it's a better choice than the Epiphone. Fit, frets and finish were flawless also.
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I found an RL3 for a friend. A tremendous bargain. Pickups are a little hot, but that's easily dealt with. It's comfortable, seems very well built. Frets and playability as good as I've encountered on any guitar, high end or low. I'd love to check out one of the JZ4s.
MD
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