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Hello to all,
This is my first post here and probably won't be my last.
Recently, I have been turning into jazz quite heavily and I got myself quite some "jazz" gear as you can say(sold some of my "metal" gear, hehe), a Gibson ES 345, a D'Angelico EX SS Thinline and Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III amp (as I found out, it's not a bad choice for jazz tones).
I was wondering, if anyone owns one of these amps what would the best setting for a nice jazz tone, thick and legato-ish type of tone?? or what you usually tweak to get a jazz tone in general??
Thank you,
Mike
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05-08-2012 04:55 PM
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I'm sorry, I don't have a definitive answer, as I do not own one of these amps, but I see no reason why it wouldn't be quite a decent jazz amp. It's got the warm vibrant nature typical of tube amps, and enough output wattage to keep a fair bit of headroom in it to avoid breakup and harsh tones at higher volumes.
I have a Blues Jr. which is considered a bit less suitable because of its low output (15W), but it's great for practicing and really works beautifully with my archtop.
I use settings that seem to be favored by many jazz players, which is to keep the bass high (around 10), treble low (0-3 or so), and mids in the low to middle range.
Any tweaking beyond that all depends on what you personally hear as it not only changes from amp to amp or from guitar to guitar, but also from room to room.
Last edited by Retroman1969; 05-08-2012 at 09:25 PM.
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Both blues junior and hor rod amps are too bright for the jazz sound I like. But my "jazz tone" (whatever that is) might be different from yours.
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Going back to the original question- and seeing that the OP has already bought the amp, so we might as well talk about what it can do- I got a reasonable ''traditional'' ( darkish, as one might get from a Hendriksen) tone from one of these amps in a recording studio with treble on about 1, mid & bass about 5. Not at all a bad tone..I was pleasantly surprised.
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I got some great sounds out of that amp with pedals. Cleans are really nice but very bright with the stock speaker (bass can be very thumpy too), so rolling back the treble and bass with some tone knob often does a really nice sound with hollow's and semis' (watch that bass...it'll knock stuff off your shelves). If you need more, than I agree that an EQ pedal is the next step. It's going to be different with various guitars and PUP's, so messing around with it is how you'll find your spots.
I am actually looking for another myself. Trying to trade my Carvin Vintage 33 for it. I just prefer 6L6's to EL84's right now.
Just as an aside...putting a Barber Small Fry in front of the HRD clean channel is killer (although the BSF does that with most Fender amps that I've played through). I never could get with the drive and more drive channels...I just think of it as a one-channel amp.Last edited by jbear; 05-09-2012 at 01:48 PM.
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Yeah, I figured that out with the bass, it can really be thumpy and quite bassy. So what kind of speaker would you suggest? It's the III version.
Originally Posted by jbear
Berber Small Fry? I never head of it, I will check it out.
I would like to thank everyone for replying and your advice.
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Hi,
is there a chance to modify Hot Rod to sound close to old Vibrolux? It has 2x6L6 too. Maybe some mod like changing speaker or sth inside amp. Thanks 4 response!
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Greetings everyone,
Long time lurker but first time poster here. I'd love your input on an amp dilemma I'm having right now. Please pardon the lack of organization in my post as there's a lot of information I'm trying to convey.
I play in a traditional 17-piece swing band that plays weekly at a local ballroom, with the occasional wedding or special event thrown in. We're pretty diverse, doing anything from the swing era but also a good number of more modern tunes from Chicago, Earth Wind and Fire, 70s ballads, rockabilly, blues, and some classic rock. So basically we do just about anything, and I need an amp that can give me a good clean sound and a good crunch as well.
I've been playing a Bandit 112 for a long time and finally decided to explore tube amps. I tend to keep the Bandit clean channel at around 2:00 and work my guitar's volume pot for when I want some hair for a solo or an edgier rhythm sound. For clean 4-to-the-bar comping I keep it pretty quiet and try not to overpower.
After a lot of research and trying out amps locally, I decided to try a Hot Rod Deluxe III, which I bought from Sweetwater and have had for about a week. I'm not sure I like it yet. I knew it was going to be a loud amp but I was expecting it to be a little more musical than what I'm hearing. I took it out last night to my usual Tuesday gig and while it sounded nice (much better than the Bandit), I was hardly pushing the amp. I wasn't able to get the nice "tube amp" sound and feel that I was hoping for. I know it's in there, but the 40-watt HRD is just too loud to push the cleans to a level where I get it. I kept the clean volume at around 11:00 which, if I played wide open, would give me a little bit of hair, but even on a loud song the volume was too much. The distortion channel was acceptable for the rock songs (actually quite good), and there's a master volume pot that I can adjust.
A couple of other notes: The band I play in is loud - the horns tend to go crazy and are told to quiet down more often than any other section. Part of the reason why I chose the HRD was to get a "bigger" sound - something that would fill the space in all directions. I tried a Cube 80 last year and I could barely hear myself because I sit right next to the amp (not in front of it) due to space constraints, and all the sound went straight out.
I noticed that the HRD came with GT-6l6-CHP power tubes rated at 9.
So, the issue now is do I keep this HRD or return it and look for something else? I need an amp I can plug into and play. I barely have room for a foot switch, so a channel switching amp that has a dirt side is important. Having extra pedals on the floor is not an option.
I looked at the Classic 30, but I'm afraid the smaller cabinet will eventually make me sound very boxy and I may have the same problem as I had with the Cube. The only other option I can think of is a Supersonic 22. Or do I just keep the HRD and hope it eases up after a break in period?
I'm playing a stock Ibanez AR420 that I absolutely love with D'Addario EXL115W strings.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts!Last edited by NylonJazz; 12-21-2016 at 02:00 PM.
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Have you tried turning down the volume on your guitar?
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I played most of the gig with the guitar volume at about half for the swing tunes. The issue is that I can't turn it past that to get a little grit for the other tunes because it's too loud. Originally Posted by Bach5G
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1)
2) What we have here is the classic challenge faced by the guitarist tasked with providing a variety of tones and volume levels with a minimal stage footprint. Your Ibanez AR40 is a great guitar and the HRDIII has a good reputation, though I am not personally experienced with it; it has the requisite clean/dirty option as well as the vital master volume. The III has three stages of gain - clean, "dirt", and "more dirt". Use the clean channel for your clean tones. Set the dirt option for just enough gain to provide some hair. If the channel isn't quite sensitive enough to keep the gain down, turn down your guitar's volume control. Use the more dirt thingie for your more driven tones. Use the master volume for its most important function - keeping your job in the band! Less is more, as they used to say around the Bauhaus....
Practice getting and using these tones and levels at home, and using the master volume to regulate the overall volume. You may need to tweak the tonal settings as you go - the ear responds differently at different levels.
All those knobs and switches are there for a reason - to help you achieve your sonic goals. Best of luck!
BTW, should you find that rolling back your guitar's volume produces an unacceptable treble loss, consult your tech. there is an easy fix for that, involving, I believe, the phases of the moon ( and a 110picofarad capacitor).
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I'm surprised you don't have room for a few more pedals. It stage space really that tight? What about using a single multi-effects pedal like the Boss GT-1? The whole thing is 12" x 6"
Last edited by BigDaddyLoveHandles; 12-21-2016 at 06:21 PM.
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Originally Posted by citizenk74
1)
2) What we have here is the classic challenge faced by the guitarist tasked with providing a variety of tones and volume levels with a minimal stage footprint. Your Ibanez AR40 is a great guitar and the HRDIII has a good reputation, though I am not personally experienced with it; it has the requisite clean/dirty option as well as the vital master volume. The III has three stages of gain - clean, "dirt", and "more dirt". Use the clean channel for your clean tones. Set the dirt option for just enough gain to provide some hair. If the channel isn't quite sensitive enough to keep the gain down, turn down your guitar's volume control. Use the more dirt thingie for your more driven tones. Use the master volume for its most important function - keeping your job in the band! Less is more, as they used to say around the Bauhaus....
Practice getting and using these tones and levels at home, and using the master volume to regulate the overall volume. You may need to tweak the tonal settings as you go - the ear responds differently at different levels.
All those knobs and switches are there for a reason - to help you achieve your sonic goals. Best of luck!
BTW, should you find that rolling back your guitar's volume produces an unacceptable treble loss, consult your tech. there is an easy fix for that, involving, I believe, the phases of the moon ( and a 110picofarad capacitor).
Thank you citizenk74! Yes... I do want to get called back. Volume is a tough subject for guitarists, and people assume we're going to blast them. I've walked into gigs and before I start setting up I've had strangers walk up to me saying "not too loud!" Nature of the beast...
I normally play with my guitar volume about mid way for clean stuff, and if I need to take a solo or whatever else, I bring it up as needed. I do get the tone roll off, but I expect it (every electric I've owned does that). I didn't think of using the drive channel for just a little grit and bringing up the master volume appropriately. Probably because I've been using the clean channel on my current amp set to a little breakup for years.
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Volume pedal.
When my teacher was telling me about his experience of playing with Sinatra's big band, he found out that Sinatra HATED the sound of the magnetic pickup.
So he had to get a volume pedal, which he was able to lower and decrease, depending on if he was taking a chorus (increase volume) or comping (lower volume).
So yeah, volume pedal. Or a couple of other pedals as well.
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Yes... it's that tight. The drummer has to climb over my amp most nights just to get to his set. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
I have a Boss ME-70 that I've used for other types of gigs but again, I just don't have the room. When we're playing a wedding or some other event and I have more space to spread out and I bring it sometimes to add some chorus/delay on the pop tunes.
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I see these amps at lots of university student jazz band gigs- so this amp will certainly do the job. I suggest taking out the 12AX7 preamp tube in the V1 spot and replacing it with a lower gain tube- maybe a 12AY7. Electro Harmonix makes good ones and they are not expensive. Changing the preamp tube allows the amp to have more headroom and allows you to play at a higher volume without any distortion. In other words you get more usable volume. I've done this inexpensive modification to every Hot Rod Deluxe I've owned.
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Originally Posted by NSJ
I have an old Boss FV-50 that I could try, but it cuts the signal before the power tubes. So I get the gain only from the input tubes, which kinda defeats the purpose of the whole tube amp thing. And plus, I just don't have the room. I'm lucky to fit the footswitch right in between the legs of my music stand.
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I usually swap out any 12ax7 in the first preamp spot and replace it with a 5751. I find it gives more clarity and definitely gives more clean headroom. YMMV. Originally Posted by Timo
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Holy shit, I hope you are wearing ear plugs. Originally Posted by NylonJazz
I played through one of those about half way up the other week and my ears were ringing for hours.
HRD is a great workhorse amp - as in loud and clean. I find them a brittle, I kind of know what you mean.A couple of other notes: The band I play in is loud - the horns tend to go crazy and are told to quiet down more often than any other section. Part of the reason why I chose the HRD was to get a "bigger" sound - something that would fill the space in all directions. I tried a Cube 80 last year and I could barely hear myself because I sit right next to the amp (not in front of it) due to space constraints, and all the sound went straight out.
I noticed that the HRD came with GT-6l6-CHP power tubes rated at 9.
So, the issue now is do I keep this HRD or return it and look for something else? I need an amp I can plug into and play. I barely have room for a foot switch, so a channel switching amp that has a dirt side is important. Having extra pedals on the floor is not an option.
Maybe try an EP boost?
I use a Fender Princeton (15W) with a speaker swap (Eminence Li'l Bud) clean headroom not an issue for jazz gigs, but the amp gives a bit of break up at high volume should you need it. Something similar wattage but cheaper? Peavey's are good.Last edited by christianm77; 12-21-2016 at 07:57 PM.
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That's fascinating that Ole Blue Eyes would have had an opinion. Originally Posted by NSJ
But Sinatra is right IMHO: they do sound like ass for proper swing rhythm guitar.
I ride the volume on my Loar, similar sort of thing. I use a linear pot on my guitar (i.e. not audio taper). I have piezo output as well. The ES175 isn't going to be replacing that guitar soon for that kind of functionality.Last edited by christianm77; 12-21-2016 at 07:59 PM.
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But Sinatra was not anti-guitar. I read somewhere that he used his regular band guitarist (Al Caiola, maybe ?!) to play scales to him in the dressing room for about 20 minutes or so before every gig, to warm his pipes (voice) up.
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Frank was very well known among his accompanists for being extremely meticulous about sound, tone, takes, performances, etc. It doesn't surprise me. And, I agree 100% with your last sentence. To much honky midrange... or something like that. Originally Posted by christianm77
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Fender Deluxe Reverb? Originally Posted by NylonJazz
If you own a forklift truck you could always get a Fender Twin, of course.
What about Peavey amps, anything bigger cab wise?
TBH I just play through my dinky little Princeton with it's 10" and it doesn't bother me.
Here's a pro tip that I often hear - it's ALL about mid range cut. No one apart from you wants the guitar to sound 'big' ;-) In fact, everyone else - band, audience - wants the guitar to fit in its sonic niche. Which is, midrange.
With the 'scooped' Fender blackfaces that means pushing the mids quite hard. The PRRI doesn't even have a mid dial. I cut treble and bass, and it works.
A friend of mine has a Mesa Boogie that they've modified to push out MORE midrange. It works, though. Slightly disconcerting if you normally play a Blackface amp haha.Last edited by christianm77; 12-21-2016 at 08:54 PM.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
I agree about fitting in the sonic space correctly. For swing I'm more trying to be felt and not heard. But for all the other stuff (the rock songs in particular) where the guitar is more prominent... that's where the need to sound big (or bigger) comes in.
Also, part of it is self defense. Very small stage and not enough room for the rhythm section, so everyone is on top of each other. If I can't hear myself with a certain kind of amp but another will expand the sound around the sides of the cabinet so I can actually hear what I do, then I'd rather use that amp.
If I decide to send the HRD back, the two I'm now thinking about are the Supersonic 22 or the Classic 30.
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YES! That really is a great combination. I have exact same thing. It's the best amp I've ever had. Originally Posted by christianm77
To the OP.
I used to have a similar requirement in the late 80's. Initially, we didn't have a horn section but when we started opening up for the bigger acts (Ray Goodman and Brown, Ojays, Drifters, Ruffin and Kendricks, and almost Sinatra, Martin, Davis Jr. and a drunk Minnelli who ruined the whole thing) we played with the main acts' string and brass section. I often found it difficult to compete with the stage volume so I would keep my Peavey Classic on a chair or an amp stand. I switched the clean to the overdrive channel for my solos or for the dirty stuff during our intro and outro. Taking the amp off the ground made a big difference for me. Now we were mic'd and the sound man worked wonders in the bigger arenas but I know how tricky it could be to find balance with an orchestra. But it's really not that hard. Dont over complicate it. Have enough power, and a switchable amp with overdrive and you are set. The Hot Rod Deluxe 3 will be more than plenty. The most pedals I ever had was one and that was a cry baby wah wah.
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