DIY Nut Replacement

[Hoji]

Just wondering how much bang for my buck I'll get by replacing my stock plastic nut with a bone. Two things I want to accomplish:

1. Get the string height just right. I think I can achieve this with some filing and measurement on the existing nut.

2. Improve tone. This is mainly what I'm wondering about. I hardly ever play open strings, so I'm not sure how much affect the nut has tone-wise.

Also, I'd need to get some tools - any recommendations for a basic set of files and whatever else for a guy on a limited budget?

[Uncle Meat]

If you don't use many open strings, putting a new nut in won't help much. My friend, a luthier, helped me cut my first nut a month or so ago, and it wasn't too hard. He showed me that if you hold the string down at the 3rd fret, the string should be gently resting on the 1st fret. If you can push it down before hitting it, then you can file a little. If it's too buzzy with open strings, you can carefully put a little super glue in there (with bone dust, if available) and file it down. Since then, I've tested this on every guitar I've played, and almost every one had a high nut. The filing itself was a slow, because it takes a lot of strokes, but that made it easier to accurately get the height. Just be careful to keep the angle of the slot in tact. He had a set of files from Stew Mac, but there are probably cheaper ones out there. Good luck!

[Spook410]

- Height it important. A crappy plastic nut wears quickly and is not a reliable component for maintaining this
- Tone is very important. Plastic absorbs vibration. Sucks for important stuff like harmonics. Bone is the way to go here.
- Bad nuts hurt intonation. The string needs to move easily through the perfect sized slot to hold it but not grab it. Notice your nut getting in the way every time you tune and having to press a string up on the headstock to get the nut to let go? That happens when you bend strings, as the string stretches, and at other times as well.

I don't know about the return on investment on the tools. I do know that you really don't want a plastic nut on your guitar and it does matter enough to get rid of it.

[PTChristopher]

[Uncle Meat] >>> Since then, I've tested this on every guitar I've played, and almost every one had a high nut.

I think it is very safe to say that well over 90% of guitars that are regularly played by competent players have nuts that are too high. This leads to low position intonation troubles (which we accept), and compromised playability.

My opinion on your questions:

>>> Just wondering how much bang for my buck I'll get by replacing my stock plastic nut with a bone.

What do you mean by plastic? There are styrene nuts on most cheaper guitars and then there are "boutique" plastics like "Tusq", even though "Tusque" would be more "boutique".

Anyway, bone is a favorite for durability and tradition.

>>> Two things I want to accomplish:

>>> 1. Get the string height just right. I think I can achieve this with some filing and measurement on the existing nut.

You answered already. You can get the height right with a styrene nut. Check it every year or so if you bend often or do many string changes (like 20 a year or something). Wear is more significant on Styrene (and Gibson custom shop plastic, and other plastics) than on bone.

>>> 2. Improve tone. This is mainly what I'm wondering about. I hardly ever play open strings, so I'm not sure how much affect the nut has tone-wise.

Under extremely, absurdly controlled conditions you can hear a very slight difference in open strings, otherwise - nothing.

No effect whatsoever. None. Nope. Nuh-uh.

Nay.

Конечно же, нет. ничего не

BUT, as Spook says, you don't really want a styrene nut on your guitar. The minor tradeoffs are enough to get a good nut. And a fine and durable nut setup is 1 through 99 of the top 100 ways to get your guitar playing at its best year in and year out.

So yeah, you can live with styrene, but the cool kids want better nuts.

>>> Also, I'd need to get some tools - any recommendations for a basic set of files and whatever else for a guy on a limited budget?

I made hundreds (several hundreds) of nuts before ever having purpose-made nut files.

But in my opinion you have to have a really fluid style with hand-work and materials. If so:

Get a set of hobby files that are available cheaply. The useful ones are the triangle (with warnings below), the oval, and the rat-tail.

Get a set of welding tip cleaners. Maybe $5.00.

Get a sheet of 400 grit wet-or-dry paper.

Maybe get an x-acto razor saw.

Then come back and we can walk though how to make this all work.

Or check LMI and other sources to see if you can find a lowish-cost set of nut files.

WARNING: Do not make triangular shaped nut slots. Breathe ground up asbestos - Sleep inside a plastic bag - Eat at McDonalds, but DO NOT make triangular shaped nut slots. They bind the strings, they wear quickly and unevenly, they cause fungus to grow inside your underpants.

Chris

[Socalbill]

Wow. I didn't know that about the underpants.
Bill

[MikeConner]

Apart from durability and intonation aspects of upgrading the nut, I have also replaced nuts (usually with bone) to adjust the string spacing. This was especially the case for a recent Ibanez AF95. Very worthwhile upgrade IMO.

[PTChristopher]

>>> I didn't know that about the underpants.

Yeah.

I hope that it is clear that I am expressing my opinion here and that many very helpful views will not agree with mine.

Except for the underpants thing. That is simple fact.

Chris

[Hoji]

Thanks all - great info. Confirmed my suspicions on the tone question.

Chris, I will get this stuff together and come back! I'm pretty good with fine handiwork so I feel like I could be ok at this with a little practice.

As far as the nut blank itself, I was thinking of getting the pre-slotted unbleached bone nuts from StewMac. Figure it would eliminate the whole spacing issue and let me concentrate on the depth/width of the slots. What do you think? Is that the way to go or would you suggest just getting a true blank?

[oldane]

Except for the underpants thing. That is simple fact.

Chris

Somewhat preoccupied with underwear today, Chris?

[PTChristopher]

>>> Somewhat preoccupied with underwear today, Chris?

Yep, that seems to be the long and the short of it.

>>> I was thinking of getting the pre-slotted

Well as MikeConner notes, setting optimal spacing is a big advantage of making a nut for you, and your choice of guitar, strings, playing style etc.

>>>I'm pretty good with fine handiwork

Then I suggest aiming high. Make a superb nut vs. an OK one from a pre-slotted blank. UNLESS that blank happens to have slot spacing that you really like very much.

I'm trying to leave space here for other's opinions to come out regarding FB edge clearance and string spacing.

I also suggest that you make a few practice nuts first out of absolutely anything. You can grab some scrap plastic from anywhere, buy plastic nuts for low $$$ at a music store and re-work them, or start from an actual bone from a dead cow.

Do note that working bone nut blanks is a smelly process - like a dentist office in hell.

Cutting patterns in mother of pearl with a micro grinder is the only worse smell in my opinion.

Well, some dog farts can be bad too. I had a brother-in-law in my first marriage who also could really stink up a room, but maybe I am drifting off topic here,...

Anyway, proceed as you see fit. It will be fun to walk through this project on the forum.

Chris

[Hoji]

>>>Then I suggest aiming high. Make a superb nut vs. an OK one from a pre-slotted blank. UNLESS that blank happens to have slot spacing that you really like very much.

Makes sense!

Had not considered the smell... hmm. guess we suffer for art!

Now I'm considering getting a few of the nicer gauged nut files (say 0.016, 0.028, and 0.042). They're about $13 each. (Father's day gift to self?... hmm.)

>>>It will be fun to walk through this project on the forum.

Yeah! Bound to be fun and educational. Anyone else considering giving it a shot?

[PTChristopher]

Back to your basic question:

>>> DIY Nut replacement - difficult? worth it?

>>> difficult?

Yes. There are many things to keep in mind. Plus bone is hard, so you need to get rough with it, but the results need to be rather precise so you need to go easy.

But no single step is all that difficult if you go slow and understand the goal of each thing you are doing.

>>> worth it?

Absolutely, and then some. You will have tackled the arguably trickiest thing in an advanced setup. You will have your own experienced opinions on your favorite way to set up your guitar.

Your mother will want to get a tattoo with your name on it, sort of a crest with crossed nut files and "Hoji" in script. Maybe a latin nut-oriented motto?

Really, it is hard to make a nut very well and not really get what is gong on with your guitar in all related ways. Definitely worth it, especially if you have a sort of durable personality toward tricky hand work.

>>> I'm considering getting a few of the nicer gauged nut files (say 0.016, 0.028, and 0.042). They're about $13 each.

I suggest getting files that are close to your preferred string gauges, but don't go crazy. Up to 10% larger than the string will be fine, and even slightly (like .002 or something) smaller will be workable.

Chris

[Spook410]

Under extremely, absurdly controlled conditions you can hear a very slight difference in open strings, otherwise - nothing.

No effect whatsoever. None. Nope. Nuh-uh.

Sure. Sure. Next thing you'll be saying that those cool brass nuts from the 80's didn't work.

And while we're at it.. seems to me someone said they were going to make a video on the topic of DIY nut making.

[PTChristopher]

>>> those cool brass nuts from the 80's didn't work

Har-har.

Man, that was a real craze. It kicked in right when I was getting started in my late teens. So in maybe 1978 or something. There was even a small "mail order" company selling brass nut blanks in GP magazine. They were called "Nuts to You" which was sort of funny.

Some companies sold Fender brass blanks that were stamped from sheet brass. The die would sort of round off the impact side of the blank making for lots of file work, and eventually a nut that was too narrow.

Ah, those were the days (of miserably damaged fingertips from brass,...).

Occasionally I'd go nuts and really polish a new brass nut. Then other players would see it and bring their guitars back in because their nut was not as shiny. No deed went unpunished in the brass nut era.

They worked just fine. They did not add sustain to the whole guitar. It was hard to hear any difference even on open strings.

With the right wheels in a bench grinder they were really not much more work at all vs. a bone nut.

Ivory had become unavailable (a good thing) only a year or so earlier. So lots was happening in nuts-ville at the time.

If this post has any point at all, I have long since forgotten it.

Anyway, all alternate views on "tone" are certainly at least as good as mine.

Views that agree with me are to be questioned.

Chris

[Spook410]

Hoji.. a place to start.

STEWMAC.COM : Nut Making and Setup Free information

[bugeyed]

snip He showed me that if you hold the string down at the 3rd fret, the string should be gently resting on the 1st fret. If you can push it down before hitting it, then you can file a little. snip

I don't agree with this procedure.
I have always tested the nut height by LIGHTLY fretting between the 2nd & 3rd fret so as to actually fret the 2nd then check the string clearance at the first fret. The string should just clear the fret. The clearance should be too close to measure, or maybe even see. I just press lightly on the string above the 1st fret & see that there is the slightest movement before contacting the fret. Not sure if that is clear, but the point is, the string should not be touching the 1st fret, just be about as close as possible without touching.
It can be tricky to get the nut slots perfect from a blank nut, but if careful you should be OK. If you go too deep, you can fill the slot with CA glue & try again. Not a permanent solution though. The welding cleaners work pretty well for one or two nuts, just be careful with the thin ones, they bend easily. Good luck.
kev

[edh]

All this talk about nut replacement make my....well....nuts ache.

[oldane]

I don't agree with this procedure.
I have always tested the nut height by LIGHTLY fretting between the 2nd & 3rd fret so as to actually fret the 2nd then check the string clearance at the first fret. The string should just clear the fret. The clearance should be too close to measure, or maybe even see. I just press lightly on the string above the 1st fret & see that there is the slightest movement before contacting the fret. Not sure if that is clear, but the point is, the string should not be touching the 1st fret, just be about as close as possible without touching

Agree. If the string touches the first fret when fretted at the third fret, chances are there will be high piched buzzes between the fretted note and the nut - which can be very annoying with an acoustic (but mas pass with an electric if one has the amp turned up suffriciantly to drown it). I have been there and know from my own experience.

[km1292]

>>> 1. Get the string height
>>> 2. Improve tone.

Tyt best solution is zero fret. Cut out a part of nut (the wide of that part is about 1/2 of fret wide) and glue zero fret in there.

[PTChristopher]

My unsolicited opinion on zero frets:

I have done plenty of them.

1. They are no easier to install or more effective than a nut.

2. They work just fine.

3. They do not improve sound consistency because "they are just like a fret". The string contacts the zero fret and makes a small groove. The fret hardens in this groove. The net effect is no more tone consistency than you get with a well made nut. It is not the same as a fret by the time you consider actual string contact (break angle and bedding in vs. being pressed down by a finger).

4. By the time you deal with bedding-in and wear, you have the same need to get the height correct as you do with a nut.

5. They work. They are no easier than a nut. They are not "the same as a fret" in practice even though it is easy to imagine so.

All in my opinion.

Chris

[bugeyed]

>>> 1. Get the string height
>>> 2. Improve tone.

Tyt best solution is zero fret. Cut out a part of nut (the wide of that part is about 1/2 of fret wide) and glue zero fret in there.

I am intrigued by this idea. Any more info? Ibanez George Benson signature has a 1/2 bone 1/2 brass not, but having the brass 1/2 as a zero fret sounds like a great idea! Any possible down side?

P.S. After a bit of visualization, it would be a bit of a trick to get the crown of the fret to line up exactly at the right spot. It would have to be at the point where the nut & fretboard meet, so half of the fretwire would lay on the fretboard. Maybe best to just make a brass nut.

Cheers,
kev

[PTChristopher]

Further unsolicited opinion:

CA filler in the slots works. But while the CA can seem hard very quickly, it can be pretty soft for quite a while. A string can sink slightly in new CA when under tension.

A very effective, and in my opinion "permanent", fill is to use very thin CA and bone dust to fill the slot. Then let the CA set overnight (or at least for several hours). Then cut the new slot.

The combination of the CA and bone dust matrix, and lots of setup time gives you a notably harder slot.

Chris

[km1292]

>>to get the crown of the fret to line up exactly at the right spot.

Yes it is important thing influencing on intonation. The solution is to get bigger fret (Jumbo, Super Jumbo) and file the center slightly toward fretboard.

>>Maybe best to just make a brass nut.

IMHO any nut is not good solution at all. It is very hard work to make equal depth of slots for all strings.

[Spook410]

So many old misconceptions to discard.. so many new things to learn.