Open or closed cabinet?

**kris** · 06-21-2012, 06:55 AM

Guitarists use jazz amp heads with different cabinets/open back or closed/.
why?

**jorgemg1984** · 06-21-2012, 07:33 AM

I have two heads these days and two cabs. My cabs are both convertible, this is, open or closed. I always use them closed... "jazz amps" like my jazzmaster ultralight and my henriksen just like closed backs more... For pop / rock open back works better.

I have no experience with tubes on this unfortunately. To me that's actually one of the biggest advantages of going head / cabinet on tubes because on combos you must have an open-back because of heat dissipation (on solid state amos you can have closed back combos). I would love to try a blackface tube head into one of my closed cabd,

**robertm2000** · 06-21-2012, 01:37 PM

The open back cabinets put out low frequency sounds that are out of phase with the same sounds coming from the cabinet's front, so you lose a fair amount of low end response when playing through an open back cabinet. Closed back cabinets don't put out the out of phase sounds so they have a slightly fuller low end. Rock seems to want more midrange usually, some metal being the exception - 4 x 12" cabinets! Jazz seems to ask for a fuller sound from the guitar so closed back cabinets and large speakers, 15" especially, seem to be used there more.

**kris** · 06-21-2012, 01:42 PM

sometimes speakers are special made for open back...i think.

**Gabe** · 06-21-2012, 03:14 PM

I've always preferred open back, I just prefer the way it 'fills' a room more. A cool trick I've done a bit when recording overdriven parts is putting a condenser mic behind the cab along with a 57 on the speaker, so you can blend in some cool wooly bass to fatten up the sound.

**iim7V7IM7** · 06-21-2012, 07:45 PM

Jazz:

Blues:

**jorgemg1984** · 06-21-2012, 07:55 PM

Port City cabs are very interesting, they claim to have closed-back focus with open-back dispersion....

**lpdeluxe** · 06-21-2012, 10:29 PM

I'm thinking that open vs sealed backs is one of those "how many angels can dance on the head of pin" arguments. I have both kinds, and I'm a hell of a lot more interested in how each amplifier interacts with my guitar and my style than in how each one meets some sort of intellectual criterion. Call me old fashioned (hell, I turned 70 last month), but I believe there are more immediate issues.

Why don't you listen to the differences? Seems to me that it's the sound, not the configuration, that counts.

**jorgemg1984** · 06-22-2012, 06:14 AM

Ip I disagree with you; having two convertible cabs I can guarantee you the jazzmaster ultralight sound quite different between open and closed backs. Of course there are a lot of other things that contribute to one's sound but open vs closed is more relevant that many think; most jazz amps base their design on a flat preamp trough a loud and clean power amp in a cubic / closed back cabinet.

**kris** · 06-22-2012, 08:55 AM

I like my open back cabinet with hollow-body guitar...very nice sound.

**Patrick2** · 06-22-2012, 09:12 AM

I have open back Fender combos. Both are 1970. A Princeton Reverb and Pro Reverb. The Pro was black faced by Andy Fuchs.

I use a Sound Enhancer for the Pro, and Josh at Atlas Stands made me a great stand for the Princeton Reverb, with the same type of reflex system as the Sound Enhancer. I actually think Josh's is a little better.

Sound Enhancer - Home

**lpdeluxe** · 06-22-2012, 12:08 PM

I apologize for coming across a bit testy.

I am currently playing with some people who know as much about their gear as they do about enzymes, and I think they are the better for it. As a former hot rodder and motorcycle racer, I know how easy it is to obsess over trivial details and I also have learned that most such concerns have, for me, proven fruitless in the sense that I was chasing after something using the wrong part of my brain.

My amp collection (such as it is) includes a 1965 Fender Bassman head which I plug into a Weber California Ceramic 15 cabinet (and which has a removable back panel); a Fender Bandmaster VM that uses the same cabinet; a 1963 Sears Silvertone 1484 with an open back; a Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight with its sealed cabinet; and a Fender Deluxe Reverb reissue with its open back.

They are, in order, all tube, hybrid tube-solid state-digital, all tube, all solid state, and all tube.

I find myself grabbing one or the other based on convenience (as you might think, the small and light Jazzmaster most often gets the nod) and only occasionally based on a particular sound. For example, one playing partner loves the sound of my ES-335 into the BM VM/Weber, while he plays his Fishman-equipped Martin dreadnaught through the Jazzmaster. Other times I'll break out the DRRI for a change of pace, if I don't have to carry it very far. Overall, I get very similar sounds from all of them. One may have a particular sonic emphasis that another lacks, but they are all good sounding amplifiers.

Note that I play a wide variety of material: original music by the Martin owner mentioned above, top 40 Country with a now-mostly dormant dance hall band, classic rock with a casual group, and standards from the '20s and '30s with another (in fact, my last gig was with that one).

Sound, to me, is much more a combination of phrasing and melodic/rhythmic ideas than it is of a particular configuration of one's amplifier. I'll add, too, that it seems to have taken me quite a long time to figure that out.

It occurs to me that I have owned 35 guitars in 41 years, and about 14 amplifiers.

**jorgemg1984** · 06-22-2012, 04:16 PM

Well you're using the old "tone is in the fingers" arguments which is of course true up to a certain point. I understand you wold call a cable discussion a "trivial detail" but in my experience open vs closed back is far from a trivial detail... And I still have to met a "I don't care about gear" guy with a good guitar sound

**cosmic gumbo** · 06-23-2012, 12:41 AM

Closed cabs have a more punchy sound. Sometimes I use a closed back extension cab with my open back 1X12 combo amps and the combination sounds lusher than the combo amps by themselves.

**JazzVocab** · 06-23-2012, 02:27 AM

4 ohm speakers are the way forward!

**lpdeluxe** · 06-23-2012, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Well you're using the old "tone is in the fingers" arguments which is of course true up to a certain point. I understand you wold call a cable discussion a "trivial detail" but in my experience open vs closed back is far from a trivial detail... And I still have to met a "I don't care about gear" guy with a good guitar sound

Actually, I'm not. My argument is more "you can't reduce 'good sound' to any single element." There are differences between types of cabinets and amplifier topology and certainly, guitars, but to insist that only one particular element is necessary for great tone ignores the interaction of a lot of other components to the sound; the trick is not to rely on a single thing, but rather to learn to exploit what you have.

Nor is my argument "I don't care about gear." You may have noticed that all my gear is of professional quality, including the guitar. I care a lot about what sort of gear I play through, but at the same time, an amplifier -- to me -- is a black box, best selected by considering its inherent sound with my chosen guitar, rather than through some detail of its anatomy.

**Patrick2** · 06-23-2012, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by lpdeluxe

Actually, I'm not. My argument is more "you can't reduce 'good sound' to any single element." There are differences between types of cabinets and amplifier topology and certainly, guitars, but to insist that only one particular element is necessary for great tone ignores the interaction of a lot of other components to the sound; the trick is not to rely on a single thing, but rather to learn to exploit what you have.

Nor is my argument "I don't care about gear." You may have noticed that all my gear is of professional quality, including the guitar. I care a lot about what sort of gear I play through, but at the same time, an amplifier -- to me -- is a black box, best selected by considering its inherent sound with my chosen guitar, rather than through some detail of its anatomy.

This post is so . . profound, so astute and so accurate . . . I almost genuflected after I read it. The part I highlighted is particularly spot on.

**jorgemg1984** · 06-23-2012, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by lpdeluxe

Actually, I'm not. My argument is more "you can't reduce 'good sound' to any single element." There are differences between types of cabinets and amplifier topology and certainly, guitars, but to insist that only one particular element is necessary for great tone ignores the interaction of a lot of other components to the sound; the trick is not to rely on a single thing, but rather to learn to exploit what you have.

Nor is my argument "I don't care about gear." You may have noticed that all my gear is of professional quality, including the guitar. I care a lot about what sort of gear I play through, but at the same time, an amplifier -- to me -- is a black box, best selected by considering its inherent sound with my chosen guitar, rather than through some detail of its anatomy.

Thanks for the clarification Ip, I got your point much better this time. I agree the amount of things that contribute to tone is very big and the sum of all of them gives the final result - and when we try things is hard to isolate what exactly contributes to what in tone. But I've had the chance to compare open vs closed back with everything else being equal and I do think there's a noticeable difference in sound.

"an amplifier -- to me -- is a black box, best selected by considering its inherent sound with my chosen guitar, rather than through some detail of its anatomy" Well cabinet design and speaker choice are part of it's inherent sound

**lpdeluxe** · 06-24-2012, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Patrick2

This post is so . . profound, so astute and so accurate . . . I almost genuflected after I read it. The part I highlighted is particularly spot on.

Ha ha.

Thank you for the kind words.

Jorgemg1984, I understand your opinion, despite what my words may sound like. I happen to love variety (in addition to the groups I listed above, I also play harmonica and Dobro in a string band group at the church I attend, and will audition on bass with a "praise music" group at another church this week). Every so often, I find a "magic" tone, but it has always proven imposssible to replicate on another day, in a different room, with more or fewer people present, and more or less humidity in the air, so I am reduced to thinking only about the music.

**jorgemg1984** · 06-24-2012, 09:57 AM

Ipdeluxe I too understand your point, we do obsess about stuff that in real life sometimes are irrelevant... And there are so many things we do not control that caring about music is indeed the most important thing

**kris** · 06-24-2012, 11:16 AM

I play guitar long time...:-)
now I can say: I hear better the quality of the sound.
Guitar and amp are music instruments.

**Katmol** · 07-21-2015, 07:42 PM

I know this is an old thread but, How do you balance the volume between a closed back ext. cabinet and a 1x12 combo amp. I've been wanting to do this with a 1x15" extension cabinet with my 1x12" Legend 30 watt combo. The open back amp just drowns out the closed back cab.

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

Closed cabs have a more punchy sound. Sometimes I use a closed back extension cab with my open back 1X12 combo amps and the combination sounds lusher than the combo amps by themselves.

**feet** · 07-22-2015, 12:51 AM

it is supposed to. at that distance, anyway. the closed back is projecting past you to the cheap seats while the open back is filling the space around you. try tilting the closed back or popping it on a chair or stand to get it closer to ear level. i've used a home depot bucket to decent effect.

as for the question at hand, i came from the open back = clean, closed back = rock school. all of my cabs and combos have been open ever since, but i have a drill charging to test this theory with my open back 2x12. tried a squat, closed back marshall 2x12 with v30s (of all things) and the cleans were lovely.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 07-22-2015, 10:32 AM

Hi-fi speaker cabinets are all closed back, right? Does that tell us anything?

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 07-22-2015, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by kris

sometimes speakers are special made for open back...i think.

I thought the deal was that sealed cabinets use air pressure to limit the travel of the speaker cone. Some speakers are built stiffer so they can work in either closed or open cabinets, while others are flimsier, if that is the right word, and do better in a sealed cabinet. I guess a ported cab would be somewhere in between. Did I get that right?

Actually, that's another question: I think of front-ported cabinets as being rock units. Are they too bassy for jazz?