Jazzified my Gretsch Country Club

**Frank67** · 08-11-2012, 01:26 PM

Hi Guys,

It is not a NGD since I had the guitar for a while and got it for a great price from ebay. It is a Gretsch Country Club (G6196T). It has a solid spruce top, 17 inch body (2.75 inch), 25.5 scale, ebony fretboard, Imperial tuners ... so a real nice, big box. The neck is great - not too chunky but it plays really well. Somehow it never felt like a real jazz guitar because of the Bigsby and it is too big for a rock guitar (in my book at least).

So i decided to make a few modifications

Picture attached)

1) A Compton brass bridge (recommended by the guys at the Gretsch forum)
2) A finger tailpiece instead of the Bigsby (... just like them)
3) TV Jones Powertron pickups (more punch and midrange)
4) A treble bleed at the master volume.

With these modifications and heavy (TI GB 14) Flatwound strings I think that the guitar is great. The sound is still "Gretschy" and has the clarity and accuracy that is the signature of the Gretsch style pickups. Yet, it sounds fat, round and warm to me. In particular the bass doesn't fart out but is round and clear and well defined.

To my ears the tone is somewhat similar to Ibanez GB 10 in that it is bell like and can be bright and punchy with plenty of sparkle. But the Gretsch has a bigger sound probably due to the larger body and the fact that pickups are routed and not floating.

I remember that Mr. B once said on this forum that Jazz and Gretsch is like playing Vivaldi on a chainsaw or something along these lines :-) .... I hope this provides some evidence to the contrary :-)

I recorded a little video. Don't mind the playing .... still learning and took this as part of feps study group in the context of writing and disguising licks. Doesn't necessarily fits the genre too well.

The setting is pretty bright because I like it this way in this context. The guitar can sound much darker. There is a band in a box generated flute solo at 2:20 ... I included that to also have the comping sound.

**Jazzman301** · 08-11-2012, 02:18 PM

Looks great and sounds just as good. There was plenty of jazz played on old Gretsch guitars from the 40's and early 50's. Great playing and thanks for sharing man.

'Mike

**hot ford coupe** · 08-11-2012, 04:19 PM

I agree. Sal Salvador used Gretsch guitars as well as Mary Osbourne, George Van Epps, Freddie Green, Billy Bean and a bunch of others whose names I forgot. The guitar sounds perfect for jazz and looks great too. Unfortunately, I'm getting a bit tired hearing that you can't play jazz on this or that guitar. Many times over, that theory has been blown out of the water by fine videos like yours. If I hadn't bought that Heritage Gretsch I have, I would have gotten a 6196, no BS about it.

**zigzag** · 08-11-2012, 05:12 PM

Great tone! Who cares if it doesn't fit someone's description of "jazz."

**Jazzman301** · 08-11-2012, 05:47 PM

I have a G100CE that sounds as much like "jazz" as I or any other player is capable of making it sound. Gretsch guitars are great guitars and were definitely "Jazz guitars" back in the 40's and 50's.

The fact is a guitar will sounds like whatever YOU make it sound like and at the end of the day its just a tool to express a musical thought or idea in a way that others can understand.

'Mike

**ruger9** · 08-11-2012, 07:05 PM

Those Comptons are great. I have the chambered TI on my gretsch. Also, I am going to try the Powertrons in my Broadway, as well. Closest thing TVJ has to a PAF, and they look badass... Unconventional, if you will... Not just another humbucker in a jazzbox.

**nosoyninja** · 08-11-2012, 07:23 PM

The video link of bucky pizarelli over in the improvisation section has quite a few shots of him playing a gretsch back in the day... With benny goodman, no less!

**hot ford coupe** · 08-11-2012, 07:45 PM

Jazz is a style of music, not a musical instrument. You can use a trumpet for classical music, Latin music, religious music, jazz music, country music and even rock music. Have any of the trumpet players you know ever referred to it as a jazz trumpet or a rock trumpet? I think not.

**PTChristopher** · 08-11-2012, 09:04 PM

Nice sound there Frank.

I had one of those maybe 6 or 7 years ago, and indeed it supplied a great variety of big box sounds. Very green.

Man the F'trons or various TVJ variations sure do benefit from some volume pot bleed circuit if you want any sort of useful volume control. I found that a combination of two resistors and a cap seemed to be the best.

Thanks for posting this.

Chris

**Frank67** · 08-12-2012, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by Jazzman301

I have a G100CE that sounds as much like "jazz" as I or any other player is capable of making it sound. Gretsch guitars are great guitars and were definitely "Jazz guitars" back in the 40's and 50's.

The fact is a guitar will sounds like whatever YOU make it sound like and at the end of the day its just a tool to express a musical thought or idea in a way that others can understand.

'Mike

Thanks Jazzman and all who have responded!

I agree on the Compton bridges. It was most noticeable for the G6120 that I use for playing rock music. Ithought the original Tune O Matic bridge was just fine but with the Compton everything changed for the better (and he was great to deal with - responsive and professional). The 6120 is one great guitar.

With Country Club it is a bit hard to tell which mod did what because they were all major. I can only say that I really like the outcome of this experiment. The original roller bridges are not nice and most Gretsch players appear to change them. For the pickups I decided on Powertrons because I wanted to have the sound go into direction of PAFs - and they do but without compromising on this unmistakable signature Gretsch tone. Will be interesting to hear how they change the sound of your Broadway!

I agree with Chris that volume controls on Gretsches are hardly useable before the treble bleed mod. They just suck tone like crazy until they are fully open.

Oh, and I did not intend at all to nitpick on Mr B. - I found his remark really funny and I am sure it wasn't meant to sound harsh or dismissive on Gretsches (perhaps only out of context).

Gretsch guitars are really underrated for jazz in my opinion (at least in these days - as several pointed out here) but they really add another flavor on tone that is distinct from the well established (and equally beautiful to me) Gibson'esque sounds.

**ruger9** · 08-12-2012, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by FrankLearns

Thanks Jazzman and all who have responded!

I agree on the Compton bridges. It was most noticeable for the G6120 that I use for playing rock music. Ithought the original Tune O Matic bridge was just fine but with the Compton everything changed for the better (and he was great to deal with - responsive and professional). The 6120 is one great guitar.

With Country Club it is a bit hard to tell which mod did what because they were all major. I can only say that I really like the outcome of this experiment. The original roller bridges are not nice and most Gretsch players appear to change them. For the pickups I decided on Powertrons because I wanted to have the sound go into direction of PAFs - and they do but without compromising on this unmistakable signature Gretsch tone. Will be interesting to hear how they change the sound of your Broadway!

I agree with Chris that volume controls on Gretsches are hardly useable before the treble bleed mod. They just suck tone like crazy until they are fully open.
.

UNLESS you are playing LOUD. Brian Setzer uses his volume control to clean up his tone quite a bit live, and he doesn't have a treble bleed on any of his guitars. But when you're running a tube amp nice and loud, no treble bleed required, even with filtertrons.

**Frank67** · 08-12-2012, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by ruger9

UNLESS you are playing LOUD. Brian Setzer uses his volume control to clean up his tone quite a bit live, and he doesn't have a treble bleed on any of his guitars. But when you're running a tube amp nice and loud, no treble bleed required, even with filtertrons.

Good point! I wasn't aware of that. But I guess the treble bleed doesn't hurt and let's you use the volume knob at any volume without loosing too much tone. Some Brian Setzer tunes are really cool and when he decides to go jazzy I think he is really good.

**bananafist** · 08-12-2012, 09:22 AM

I've got a couple of Gretschs and have always liked the way the stock master volume knob takes some of the top off as you roll it back. I like your sound, and playing.

**fep** · 08-12-2012, 09:33 AM

Cool Frank, I also like your playing and your sound on this recording.

**PTChristopher** · 08-12-2012, 09:40 AM

>>> always liked the way the stock master volume knob takes some of the top off as you roll it back.

Indeed, what works for a given person may not for others.

The high impedance passive circuits on most electric guitars are fairly quirky to begin with.

The PU coil, the cable capacitance, other controls in the circuit, and sometimes the input impedance of the amp (or effect) all conspire to make each individual control a sloppy approximation of its intended function.

Some combinations of PU and passive volume/tone circuit just deviate more than others from what one might expect.

Anyway, for those who do not like the particular behavior of the Gretsch F'tron volume, it is an easy fix. And for those who do like it as-is, it is easy enough to leave it alone.

Whatever works for someone.

Chris

**Spook410** · 08-12-2012, 12:40 PM

It's green.

**Frank67** · 08-12-2012, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Spook410

It's green.

yes .... nicely green :-)

I must confess that the Gretschy orange and a few other features including the Bigsby prevented me from even looking at Gretsches. Only after accidentally playing one did I realize that these are wonderful and nicely made instruments. I like the caddy green. My other Gretsch is black.

**Spook410** · 08-12-2012, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by FrankLearns

yes .... nicely green :-)

Yep.. gotta agree. Really liking the overall look.

**2bornot2bop** · 08-12-2012, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Spook410

It's green.

But not just any green. It's called Cadillac green.

Beautiful playing and a fabulous demo!

**ruger9** · 08-12-2012, 08:21 PM

Hey- just a thought: what did the CC have in it originally? Dynas (single coils) or Filters? I ask because, if it had single coil pickups originally, it probably has 250K pots. Where 500K pots are standard for Filtertrons. A 250K volume pot will definitely lose highs faster than a 500K volume pot will.

**PTChristopher** · 08-12-2012, 08:58 PM

Let's not make stuff up here. There are plenty of forums for that.

EDIT: Deleted my comment on the 250K pots; gonna stay out of Gear Page type stuff.

**hot ford coupe** · 08-12-2012, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop

But not just any green. It's called Cadillac green.

Beautiful playing and a fabulous demo!

The one I GASsed over had that gorgeous green color and a Cadillac G tailpiece. That's why the 6196 is my favorite Gretsch guitar. It personifies the look of the electric guitar.

**Frank67** · 08-13-2012, 12:40 AM

This one originally had Filters but I am not knowledgeable about pots and things. There used to be a club without Bigsby and Dynasonics but it was discontinued. Now the production levels clubs all have Bigsbys. The caddy green one comes with filters and the bamboo yellow and smoke grey ones with dynasonics. Never played any of those. I'm happy with what I got here in the end.

**feet** · 08-13-2012, 01:19 AM

i believe that you can tell what a gretsch came with by the inlays- filters get thumbnails and dynas get hump blocks. or something like that.

as for the internals, you have to swap out the pots and use different values for the cap to turn them into something useful. i also did the tuners, bridge and pickups, but that's just me.

i suppose i can get "jazz" tones from my gretsches, but i'm not a player, so don't take it from me. this guy seems pretty adamant:

he also went with the finger tailpiece, which is looking kinda neat. wonder what an ebony one would look like on there.

i'm also a big fan of the country club, though i want me a grey one. but of course, i can't justify it. but yours sounds great. yay for you.

**oldane** · 09-17-2012, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by hot ford coupe

Have any of the trumpet players you know ever referred to it as a jazz trumpet or a rock trumpet? I think not.

+1. Saxophonists and clarinettists put a lot of emphasis on reeds and mouthpiece and the choices jazz players make are quite different from classical players. Typically the "jazz" mouthpieces have differently shaped chambers, as well as more open and longer facings. BUT, the instruments as such are the same as those the classical players choose (often Selmer saxophones and Buffet-Crampon clarinets). So for the woodwind players, the mouthpiece and the reed are what the strings and pick are for us guitar players.