Solid state amp with a soft feel and tube-like depth?

**Greaser** · 11-28-2012, 03:40 PM

First time poster here (heyo!)

Are there any SS amps that have a softer tube amp type feel? I have mostly played blues up to this point, but I've really become interested in jazz recently.

I have a 4x10 tweed bassman that is the pinnacle of clean guitar tone for me, but its big, heavy and kind of an awkward size for hauling around. The solid state amps I've tried (and a lot of tube amps) have a very stiff feel/immediate attack that I don't really care for and they also seem to lack a certain depth/warmth that some tube amps have...it's hard to describe these sounds with words! My bassman has a softer feel than, say a Twin Reverb, even with the volume barely cracked open, so I'm not talking about distortion induced sag.

I have a Kingsley Jester tube preamp pedal that I use and several others pedals too, so hopefully there's something out there that will work with pedals.

**mr. beaumont** · 11-28-2012, 03:55 PM

I think a lot of the modeling attempt to do this...whether or not they succeed is another question.

Evans amps are supposed to be "Fendery." And there's always Pritchard...

Personally, I like when solid state amps do what they do best--loud, clean, small--stuff a tube amp doesn't do. Most of the time when I hear a solid state amp trying to sound like a tube amp...well...I wish I had the real thing.

**Greaser** · 11-28-2012, 04:02 PM

Thanks Mr. Beaumont!

Yeah, I guess I should have expanded a little more on why I want a solid state amp (not really interested in modelling.) I want loud, clean, and small. Solid state also interests me because of reliability/maintenance, and consistency of sound at all volume levels. It doesn't have to sound exactly like a Fender tube amp, but I guess I am looking for something that sounds more like a traditional guitar amp rather than flat-response PA type sound.

**Jim Soloway** · 11-28-2012, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I think a lot of the modeling attempt to do this...whether or not they succeed is another question.

With some serious tweaking and the right cab, I think they succeed incredibly well. In a way they can also give you the best of both tubes and solid state: tube-like tonal response with solid state headroom. I'm two plus years into modeling and it's by far the happiest I've ever been with any setup.

**Greaser** · 11-28-2012, 04:11 PM

Thanks Jim! I've heard some clips that you've posted over at TGP, I may have to look into this sort of setup.

I'd like to get this sort of tone:

from something that will fit into my back pocket.

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

With some serious tweaking and the right cab, I think they succeed incredibly well. In a way they can also give you the best of both tubes and solid state: tube-like tonal response with solid state headroom. I'm two plus years into modeling and it's by far the happiest I've ever been with any setup.

**bmw2002** · 11-28-2012, 04:16 PM

You might check out the offerings from Quilter Amps, built in California. I had the opportunity to play one for an hour or so earlier this year, and was very impressed with it. They're small (8", 10" and 12" speaker choices), and designed to be warmer like tube amps. They're also very nice people.

Anyway, for consideration. Quilter Guitar Amplifiers - Quilter Labs

**ooglybong** · 11-28-2012, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Greaser

Thanks Mr. Beaumont!

Yeah, I guess I should have expanded a little more on why I want a solid state amp (not really interested in modelling.) I want loud, clean, and small. Solid state also interests me because of reliability/maintenance, and consistency of sound at all volume levels. It doesn't have to sound exactly like a Fender tube amp, but I guess I am looking for something that sounds more like a traditional guitar amp rather than flat-response PA type sound.

I love my Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight (head and speaker set). Sadly, now out-of-production, but you can still find them if you look around. There are several threads and posts here where it's discussed, so do a search. Quite "Fender-like" for a SS amp, not nearly as clinical as, say, an AI Corus, for instance (which I also own).

Some might disagree, but I also like the Ibanez Wholetone a lot. Some have compared these to more of a Polytone sound, but I have no personal comparison to offer. Most likely these will not be available at any local stores, but they do sell them at Musician's Friend (where I got mine). Another great SS amp, too, IMHO, and very reasonably-priced.

Good luck in your never-ending quest!

**Greaser** · 11-28-2012, 05:58 PM

The Quilter looks really interesting!

Originally Posted by bmw2002

You might check out the offerings from Quilter Amps, built in California. I had the opportunity to play one for an hour or so earlier this year, and was very impressed with it. They're small (8", 10" and 12" speaker choices), and designed to be warmer like tube amps. They're also very nice people.

Anyway, for consideration. Quilter Guitar Amplifiers - Quilter Labs

**mambosun** · 11-28-2012, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Greaser

First time poster here (heyo!)

Are there any SS amps that have a softer tube amp type feel? I have mostly played blues up to this point, but I've really become interested in jazz recently.

I have a 4x10 tweed bassman that is the pinnacle of clean guitar tone for me, but its big, heavy and kind of an awkward size for hauling around. The solid state amps I've tried (and a lot of tube amps) have a very stiff feel/immediate attack that I don't really care for and they also seem to lack a certain depth/warmth that some tube amps have...it's hard to describe these sounds with words! My bassman has a softer feel than, say a Twin Reverb, even with the volume barely cracked open, so I'm not talking about distortion induced sag.

I have a Kingsley Jester tube preamp pedal that I use and several others pedals too, so hopefully there's something out there that will work with pedals.

I would suggest you to give a try to a Tech21 Trademark 60.
I loved the tone of the dirt channel with the gain set at the minimum, very tube like, smooth and fat. There's also plenty of tweaking with the rather special tone control on this amp too.

**jazzbow** · 11-29-2012, 05:53 PM

How about this hybrid amp, it's got 2 x 12ax7 tubes

This guy does a really extensive review

I haven't tried one yet but it is on my list for try outs.

**mangotango** · 11-29-2012, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by mambosun

I would suggest you to give a try to a Tech21 Trademark 60.
I loved the tone of the dirt channel with the gain set at the minimum, very tube like, smooth and fat. There's also plenty of tweaking with the rather special tone control on this amp too.

Agree. I did some recording recently and the guy engineering had his Tech21 set up ready to go, so I gave it a shot. It took me seconds to find a great jazz guitar sound, and since this was with a guitar and bass duo, it had to be a tone that would stand up to scrutiny. Well, I didn't even think about changing amps and was very pleased with the result. Worth trying to find one IMHO.

**J. Murrieta** · 11-29-2012, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Greaser

... I want loud, clean, and small. Solid state also interests me because of reliability/maintenance, and consistency of sound at all volume levels. ...

The Tech 21 trademark 60 is a great amp and definitely has your criteria covered. it's loud, clean, light and relatively small for a 12" combo. used, you can pick them up for a steal. (in the usa).

the zt lunchbox could be a good option as well, depending on how "loud" loud has to be.

i generally prefer my vox ac15c1 for everything BUT when i need light, loud and clean i turn the the tech 21. plenty of tone to be found within that amp.

**Greaser** · 11-29-2012, 08:20 PM

I have played the Tech 21 before (a long time ago) and have heard several players with them. I agree, they are nice sounding. I'll have to take a closer look at these.

I have to say, the Quilter looks like it would be a great solution. I could use it with an open back extension cab (my preference) when I wanted greater sound dispersion, or just carry the small, light 8" combo. It seems that it can be setup to have a flat, warm jazz tone, but also more traditional guitar amp sounds...I may have to keep an eye out for a used one.

**iim7V7IM7** · 11-29-2012, 08:53 PM

Repeat post

**iim7V7IM7** · 11-29-2012, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I think a lot of the modeling attempt to do this...whether or not they succeed is another question.

Evans amps are supposed to be "Fendery." And there's always Pritchard...

Personally, I like when solid state amps do what they do best--loud, clean, small--stuff a tube amp doesn't do. Most of the time when I hear a solid state amp trying to sound like a tube amp...well...I wish I had the real thing.

Solid State = clean, loud, fast attack
Tubes = euphonic warmth, dynamics, overdrive

**Jim Soloway** · 11-29-2012, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

Solid State = clean, loud, fast attack
Tubes = euphonic warmth, dynamics, overdrive

Modeling = whatever you want.

**Little Jay** · 11-30-2012, 05:26 AM

I have an early 80ies Session Rockette amp that I find to react more tube-like than any other solid state amp I've played (have played Tech 21 amps too). I believe it has a lot to do with the fact that it uses MosFet-transistors in the poweramp.(MOSFET - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

The original designer of Session Amps, Stewart Ward, is still in bussiness and has a clear vision about solid state vs tube. His 'RetroTone'-mod to old Session-amps has convinced me that solid state amps can sound very much like tube amps, even when overdriven:

**Little Jay** · 11-30-2012, 05:32 AM

Oh for what it's worth: I got rid of a Cube 30x that sounded fine, especially the overdriven sounds, so I agree with Jim that modelling amps are doing a great job in sounding like tube amps, but I still think they don't feel/respond like tube amps. Hard do describe what I mean and probably highly subjective, but most ss-amps don't do it for me, my Session Rockette being the exception (but I haven't tried that many new ss-amps. The great comments that the Mambo Amp gets on this forum makes me very curious for that amp).

**Jim Soloway** · 11-30-2012, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

Oh for what it's worth: I got rid of a Cube 30x that sounded fine, especially the overdriven sounds, so I agree with Jim that modelling amps are doing a great job in sounding like tube amps, but I still think they don't feel/respond like tube amps. Hard do describe what I mean and probably highly subjective, but most ss-amps don't do it for me, my Session Rockette being the exception (but I haven't tried that many new ss-amps. The great comments that the Mambo Amp gets on this forum makes me very curious for that amp).

The Cube 30 is a good little amp but it's based on 10 year old technology and it's world short of what you can get from a stand alone modeler. What's available today can absolutely capture the feel of tubes and it can do it without being volume dependent.

**iim7V7IM7** · 11-30-2012, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

The Cube 30 is a good little amp but it's based on 10 year old technology and it's world short of what you can get from a stand alone modeler. What's available today can absolutely capture the feel of tubes and it can do it without being volume dependent.

I'll have to give one of the new Line 6 amps a try.

I played a buddies about 4-5 years ago and it was "OK" (e.g. Better than a tubescreamer through a SS amp) but not "great", It did not have the picking dynamics, feel or the ability to go from clean to overdriven based on touch like my tube amps when playing the blues.

Trying one, unfortunately involves visiting a Guitar Center which usually makes me a bit mental...:-)

**Jim Soloway** · 11-30-2012, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

I'll have to give one of the new Line 6 amps a try.

I played a buddies about 4-5 years ago and it was "OK" (e.g. Better than a tubescreamer through a SS amp) but not "great", It did not have the picking dynamics, feel or the ability to go from clean to overdriven based on touch like my tube amps when playing the blues.

Trying one, unfortunately involves visiting a Guitar Center which usually makes me a bit mental...:-)

i don't really know what the Line 6 amps are like. I'm referring to stand alone modeling into a flat response powered cab (or individual power and and cab). I would suggest trying to find someone who's already running that type
of rig to try it rather than guitar center. Or possibly check out one of the software based systems like Scuffham as an entry point. The down side is that there is a real learning curve and it does take some work to get set up well so just going into GC is not as telling as simply plugging into an amp. But the payoff is significant both for playing live and for recording.

**boatheelmusic** · 11-30-2012, 01:19 PM

The Fender Mustang Series sound great, are versatile, and not expensive,.

At lease try one!

**Greaser** · 11-30-2012, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

i don't really know what the Line 6 amps are like. I'm referring to stand alone modeling into a flat response powered cab (or individual power and and cab). I would suggest trying to find someone who's already running that type
of rig to try it rather than guitar center. Or possibly check out one of the software based systems like Scuffham as an entry point. The down side is that there is a real learning curve and it does take some work to get set up well so just going into GC is not as telling as simply plugging into an amp. But the payoff is significant both for playing live and for recording.

Do you have any recommendations for something self-contained like a combo amp? I'm not opposed to using a modeler, but don't really want to fool with carrying around different components, cords, connections, etc. Small and light!

**Greaser** · 11-30-2012, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

I'll have to give one of the new Line 6 amps a try.

I played a buddies about 4-5 years ago and it was "OK" (e.g. Better than a tubescreamer through a SS amp) but not "great", It did not have the picking dynamics, feel or the ability to go from clean to overdriven based on touch like my tube amps when playing the blues.

Trying one, unfortunately involves visiting a Guitar Center which usually makes me a bit mental...:-)

I don't really want a SS amp for overdrive/distortion, I'm looking for clean tones. If I want any overdrive/grit, I'll use my Kingsley Jester (amazing tube OD/boost that you should check out if you like that sort of thing) for that. I just want the warmth and that sort of interactive feel you get from an old tube amp, kind of like the amp is an instrument to be played also.

**Jim Soloway** · 11-30-2012, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Greaser

Do you have any recommendations for something self-contained like a combo amp? I'm not opposed to using a modeler, but don't really want to fool with carrying around different components, cords, connections, etc. Small and light!

No. The trade off from a stand along modeler to an all-in-one is very large but a modeling system for jazz can be as simple as a Pod HD desktop unit (about 3 lbs and the size of a book) with a cable to a simple powered cab that weighs about 20 lbs. Hard to get a lot lighter or simpler than that.