Martin Lewis Carbon Fiber Archtop Guitars

[wierdOne]

Hey ladies and gents...

It's been years since I posted anything to the board, and i figure this a good opportunity to let you know what i've been cooking up.

I love archtop guitars.

and... I love trees..

so... i did something about it... about 3 years ago I began talking to a fellow in Australia about making an archtop guitar out of carbon fiber.

well.. he not only made me one guitar... he made me a handful of guitars... all prototypes... every one better than the last... all along the way, he developed techniques and methods that basically have allowed him to produce some incredible instruments... these things are better than wood... and they sound and play like the coveted archtops with names like d'angelico and loar scribbled on the headstock...

he also makes fiddles and is developing violins, violas, cellos, mandolins... etc...

anyways... in return for his r&d and the incredible instruments sitting in my living room, I promised him that i would tell the world about his instruments if they got to the point that they are now... so..

here goes..

ladies and gentlemen.. i proudly present Martin Lewis:

Martin Lewis Facebook Page

Interview with martin:

Me demoing the 17" archtop

Me comparing the 17" archtop and the 14" archtop

Merry christmas guys/gals... billy

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

An interesting way to sequester carbon, too.

[Spook410]

"they sound and play like the coveted archtops with names like d'angelico and loar scribbled on the headstock"

Umm.. OK. Got a recording playing these acoustically?

[wierdOne]

"they sound and play like the coveted archtops with names like d'angelico and loar scribbled on the headstock"

Umm.. OK. Got a recording playing these acoustically?

actually... i do.. but.. it was a beta test video i recorded to see if green screening would work well with the guitar/pics in the background..

the audio was recorded with the camera's microphone... a canon 5d mark iii... so... it's not the best audio..

but... it does a pretty good job with conveying the sound of the guitar..

that's the 14" non cutaway archtop... it's small... and a pretty awesome sounding guitar..

the 17" is bigger... boomier sounding... but they're both great acoustic instruments as well..

i'll have a studio recording sometime soon of both guitars acoustically... but.. they're serious instruments.

[2bornot2bop]

at $3800? hmmmm...

[coolvinny]

These look interesting. The amplified tone sounds great. Price seems in line with today's high-end laminates, and we don't expect great acoustic tone out of those either.

[Jabberwocky]

$3800 isn't such a bad price for a 17" CF archie if it sounds and plays well. It looks like a yacht guitar. Y'know, one to take out when you're swanning around in your, errrr, Swan Yacht. Waterproof and tough as nails. Holds a tune too.

Looks very interesting. I remember writing to those guys, Luis and Clark, making carbon fiber/fibre violins, cellos and double-basses about a CF archtop but they were never got back to me.

[Keira Witherkay]

I like the idea , part of me is a traditionalist and i go weak at the knees even just seeing vintage jazz guitars with aged wood , BUT another part of me the gypsy traveller , who won't travel without a guitar in hand , loves the idea of carbon fibre , as its pretty resillient to most temp changes and humidity and stronger than wood so inside an skb type case it should travel well , and the neck once set correctly should be pretty stable

now to find one in a gentle vintage burst finish ..... Not sure i like black guitars for jazz

so yes a fabulous idea and i'd love to play one myself , to see how it feels ,

feel free to message me on any developments or for my email addy if he has a mailing list , i'm definitely a prospective customer if it does not feel " plastic " in any way ,

thanks for the post

[oldane]

Now, that's a very, very interesting idea. A roadworthy instrument which is insensitive to humidity and temperature (?) and is very much stronger than a wood instrument should appeal to travelling pros - and also to the rest of us who have to tweak truss rods twice a year and hope our spruce topped guitars don't crack in the dry winter season. Just see how popular the Ovation Adamas guitars were.

While I would need to hear myself that these really do sound just like old D'Angelicos, less can easily do. For an amplified archtop these could likely be a direct subsitute for a laminated instrument, provided they are well made and play well. Put a humbucker ring in the neck position and a tone and volume control and you are ready for almost any type of PU.

There are at present two potential problems with this kind of guitar which both relate to the fact that while carbon fiber is very strong, it is not totally unbreakable. Repairs may be necessary down the road.

First: It's important how this guitar is put together. Can it be taken apart for repair and can parts be easily replaced (maybe a module system aka Fender?) or is everything epoxied together for eternity? The white Grafton plastic alto saxophones from the 1950s come to mind. It was basically a good idea, they sounded and played OK (Charlie Parker used one at the Massey Hall concert in 1953). But they are a nightmare to repair, the risk of making matters worse is big and most repair men won't touch them. Thus the few surviving samples have become museum pieces. If anything, the white Grafton sax became Ornette Colemans visual trade mark, but he eventually replaced it with an ordinary brass instrument, finished in white laquer.

Second: At present there are likely nobody else but Martin Lewis himself who can/will work on these instruments. However, that's the way it is with everything new and different, and it would of course change if the idea caught on in wider circles.

I would have written Martin Lewis and asked him those questions, but it seems he doesn't have a web site, and I'm not on Facebook and don't want to register there. Maybe the OP can chime in here - or have Martin Lewis register on this forum and answer himself?

[rpguitar]

Pretty cool. I have no bias per se against materials like that. I actually owned a high end Adamas flattop for a while. It was a stellar guitar, but ultimately a bit flat and simple sounding. Ironically, for a flattop, it sounded a little like an acoustic archtop! It worked for jazz.

The demos, however, need some work. I mean this constructively, so please don't take offense. The electric tones are drenched in reverb, and are played a bit too fast and sloppy to be honest. The acoustic playing is too light on the pick and also a bit too quick, so one can't hear any warmth or dynamics in the guitar, just lots of brightness and pick noise. I'm sure that the good tones are in there; you just have to coax them out with the right touch.

[marcwhy]

Rainsong does a similar thing, but I don't think they have a jazz model yet: RainSong

[Keira Witherkay]

Blackbird also offer carbon graphite guitars also no jazz box yet

[mcahoon]

Rainsong does a similar thing, but I don't think they have a jazz model yet: RainSong

I seem to recall reading back in the 90's that they had 2 prototypes of a jazz guitar. I think they provided one to Russ Freeman (of the Rippingtons at the time) to evaluate. Nothing seemed to come from it though.

I believe the picture of him at this link (http://www.concordmusicgroup.com/artists/Russ-Freeman/) shows him holding the guitar. Though I can't see the maker name, the headstock looks the same.

Found this you-tube video (

) of someone showing the guitar.

[Bluedawg]

at $3800? hmmmm...

3800 Aussie dollars or US dollars?

3800 AUD is about $4000 US at the moment


Pretty guitars, though, .. would love to try one

[wierdOne]

I like the idea , part of me is a traditionalist and i go weak at the knees even just seeing vintage jazz guitars with aged wood , BUT another part of me the gypsy traveller , who won't travel without a guitar in hand , loves the idea of carbon fibre , as its pretty resillient to most temp changes and humidity and stronger than wood so inside an skb type case it should travel well , and the neck once set correctly should be pretty stable

now to find one in a gentle vintage burst finish ..... Not sure i like black guitars for jazz

so yes a fabulous idea and i'd love to play one myself , to see how it feels ,

feel free to message me on any developments or for my email addy if he has a mailing list , i'm definitely a prospective customer if it does not feel " plastic " in any way ,

thanks for the post

There are different finishes on some of the earlier prototype instruments.. one of the mandocellos had an incredible sunburst.. I'll email you pictures.

The necks on these are adjustable.. although he's making a set neck guitar too... the adjustable neck tenion we came up with is a pain in the arse to install... which is why, after these "introductory instruments" are gone, the adjustable neck will be at least a thousand dollar upgrade.

There are at present two potential problems with this kind of guitar which both relate to the fact that while carbon fiber is very strong, it is not totally unbreakable. Repairs may be necessary down the road.

First: It's important how this guitar is put together. Can it be taken apart for repair and can parts be easily replaced (maybe a module system aka Fender?) or is everything epoxied together for eternity? The white Grafton plastic alto saxophones from the 1950s come to mind. It was basically a good idea, they sounded and played OK (Charlie Parker used one at the Massey Hall concert in 1953). But they are a nightmare to repair, the risk of making matters worse is big and most repair men won't touch them. Thus the few surviving samples have become museum pieces. If anything, the white Grafton sax became Ornette Colemans visual trade mark, but he eventually replaced it with an ordinary brass instrument, finished in white laquer.

Second: At present there are likely nobody else but Martin Lewis himself who can/will work on these instruments. However, that's the way it is with everything new and different, and it would of course change if the idea caught on in wider circles.

I would have written Martin Lewis and asked him those questions, but it seems he doesn't have a web site, and I'm not on Facebook and don't want to register there. Maybe the OP can chime in here - or have Martin Lewis register on this forum and answer himself?

Alright..

the repairs.... well... carbon fiber is pretty strong stuff... and.. like you said... it's not damaged easily... but... when it does reach the point of failure, it fails....

what that means... is that compared to a wooden instrument... the carbon fiber instrument will survive the normal gig wear... tear... dropping... falling off the stand... etc... MUCH better than a wooden guitar...

and when you run over it with a car.... it will be utterly destroyed... but... then again... under the pressure of a Toyota Highlander, an L5 would shatter to a million pieces too.

Martin has trained a luthier in Colorado to fix/repair any minor damages that may occur to the instruments... they are fully warrantied.... for the life of the original purchaser... unless you run over them with a car... then.. well... that's gonna be a sad day...

but... IF the damage is significant enough, martin will ship the instrument back to australia and work on it himself.

these guitars are handmade archtop guitars. and they are what they are... instruments built by a luthier... some people will love them.. some people will hate them... i personally don't have a problem with playing them in public, or calling them mine...

Pretty cool. I have no bias per se against materials like that. I actually owned a high end Adamas flattop for a while. It was a stellar guitar, but ultimately a bit flat and simple sounding. Ironically, for a flattop, it sounded a little like an acoustic archtop! It worked for jazz.

The demos, however, need some work. I mean this constructively, so please don't take offense. The electric tones are drenched in reverb, and are played a bit too fast and sloppy to be honest. The acoustic playing is too light on the pick and also a bit too quick, so one can't hear any warmth or dynamics in the guitar, just lots of brightness and pick noise. I'm sure that the good tones are in there; you just have to coax them out with the right touch.

If you look on the videos in the restaurants, you'll see my shirt is turned inside out.. i literally sequestered a workmate, and made the videos on my lunch break...

We ran in, set up the recording gear, and pressed record.. I didn't have time to warm up... or get comfortable... I didn't pay attention to the reverb because that restaurant we filmed in is literally packed with people 5 nights a week. It's pensacola's most popular restaurant, the Global Grill. I've played there for 8 years and my amp hasn't moved from that spot or those settings in an awful long time.

Seriously... the reverb dies instantly when there's 300 people eating/drinking around you..

that was my fault... to be honest, i didn't even think to turn the reverb down... i just wanted to make sure that we got all the comparison shots i needed to show other people the differences between the 14" archtop and the 17".

To be honest, I have never claimed to be a great guitar player... I work in the space industry during the day, and i've always played guitar in restaurants at night.

that's the reason i made the videos... to help martin achieve his goal... getting these guitars into the players hands that will appreciate them...

this isn't a gimmock... these carbon fiber archtops are the real deal.

to be honest... my day job is where the idea came from... while designing/building/testing robots/vehicles to go on the iss/moon/mars, I really became fascinated with carbon fiber... so much so that i spent nearly 1/3rd of my life trying to find a carbon fiber archtop guitar.. that's when i met martin... and.. well.. here we are.

I'll have better demo videos when i get a chance to film my friends in nashville and new york that have some of the prototypes in their possession..

i just haven't had any time at all to break away from work..

rp.. here's what i do during the day..

this is an exoskeleton that I helped design/build.. it's to enable people lower body paralysis to walk again... and in turn, can be used by astronauts on the iss/other deep space missions to simulate gravity... which in turn.. should alleviate some of the negative effects that zero g has on the skeletal/circulatory/cardiovascular system.

the paralyzed fellow in the video is wearing the same shirt I am in the guitar video... only i turned mine inside out so that the white logo wasn't distracting..

I say all this to inform you that i'm not the "jazz guitar guru" that should be playing these things... i'm a computer geek that loves playing guitar... and has spent an awful lot of my spare time developing these things with martin.... i barely know any standards... i'm not the tastiest of players... my education isn't in jazz..

but... these guitars will probably sound really nice in the hands of an experienced player.

[wierdOne]

3800 Aussie dollars or US dollars?

3800 AUD is about $4000 US at the moment


Pretty guitars, though, .. would love to try one

US dollars.. that price includes shipping... once the few guitars he has now are sold, shipping won't be included in the price... and literally... the price will rise closer to 5,000.00

[wierdOne]

I seem to recall reading back in the 90's that they had 2 prototypes of a jazz guitar. I think they provided one to Russ Freeman (of the Rippingtons at the time) to evaluate. Nothing seemed to come from it though.

I believe the picture of him at this link (Russ Freeman : Concord Music Group) shows him holding the guitar. Though I can't see the maker name, the headstock looks the same.

Found this you-tube video (

) of someone showing the guitar.

I found two rainsong archtops for sale a few years ago... i ended up spending my money on a 30's gibson l4 with fholes... i'm glad i did... but.. that guitar is long gone...

as are all of my wood guitars... except for an eastman flat top... a rdhoo custom archtop... a telecaster i built... and an extremely old gibson L0...

[wierdOne]

I have to get back to work... but..

in summary..

the difference between Martin's approach to instrument building and other carbon fiber companies... is that he doesn't look at Carbon fiber like it's carbon fiber... he looks at carbon fiber like it's 200 year old wood.... he literally builds these things like any respected luthier... graduated tops... tap tuning... the only difference... is that he MAKES his wood...

if you think about it... wooden guitars "open up" after years of drying... the sap in them crystalizes and the guitar becomes this rigid structure that is capable of transferring the vibration of the strings effectively to the top of the guitar... which in turn... is a big speaker...

well... basically... Martin has figured out a way to effectively simulate old wood in carbon fiber.. it doesn't have to age for years to open up... and it's always the same... every time..

will these sound different than a D'angelico? well... i guess it depends on which guitar you are comparing it to.. but.. having played a few.... Martin's work, in my mind, is comparable to any of the great luthiers..

and he'll only get better...

these are hand made.. one at a time... not in a factory...

for those that get one in their hands... i'm pretty sure that they'll be happy...

[GNAPPI]

Use carbon fiber (cf) to save trees? Dunno there. The amount of wood used in the average house would make dozens of guitars.

My friends are big on CF parts on their motorcycles and I found out that making CF requires 5x more energy than making steel. Burning fossil fuel to make CF seems impractical.

Wood (if managed) right is a sustainable resource. It doesn't add up to me... at least as far as saving trees goes.

[wierdOne]

Use carbon fiber (cf) to save trees? Dunno there. The amount of wood used in the average house would make dozens of guitars.

My friends are big on CF parts on their motorcycles and I found out that making CF requires 5x more energy than making steel. Burning fossil fuel to make CF seems impractical.

Wood (if managed) right is a sustainable resource. It doesn't add up to me... at least as far as saving trees goes.

well... the majority of cf production is based on natural chemical reactions... well... chemicals that react together naturally... it's kind of the opposite of a natural reaction since it takes place in a 25 million dollar production facility...

the energy consumption that i think you are referring to would be in the series of furnaces that are required near the end stages of the fiber production itself.

the furnace technology today is actually pretty amazing... and, compared to a few years ago, quite efficient.

there are geothermal furnaces under development that, in theory, would use the natural heat generated by the earth... also solar powered furnaces that focus sunlight with giant mirrors...

the technology will get better/greener/cleaner as time passes...

here's an article that breaks it down pretty well..

The making of carbon fiber : CompositesWorld

instrument grade wood, the kind that we all lust over... perfect grain... tight... flame maple.... ribbon mahogany.... beautiful... timeless.. perfect... well... that wood is harvested from certain species of trees... and in order to get the billets that we split and make our tops/backs with... well... there's an Awful lot of waste to get a piece of master grade instrument wood.

sure there's a ton of wood in our houses... but... i'm not sure that anyone is going to go pay 8,000.00 for Manzer, Buscarino, or any of the other top luthiers to make them a guitar out of home depot pressure treated 2X4's... that is wood harvested from 3 year old pine trees..

the fact of the matter is that wood comes from trees... the trees that produce the best instrument wood are old... these things are massive... i have been all over the world and photographed as many large trees as i could... they fascinate me... they are beautiful... and majestic...

I'm not a hippy.. I'm a scientist.. with a degree in art... the world is beautiful.. and carbon fiber is a resource that is being produced in large quantities... I'd much rather see someone make instruments out of an inert material, than a living organism.

but that's just me.

[GNAPPI]

but that's just me.

Yup.

[wierdOne]

I would have written Martin Lewis and asked him those questions, but it seems he doesn't have a web site, and I'm not on Facebook and don't want to register there. Maybe the OP can chime in here - or have Martin Lewis register on this forum and answer himself?

Martin has asked that i field most of the questions as he's not a computer savvy guy.. but.. i can supply anyone his email address privately.

[Jabberwocky]

Martin has asked that i field most of the questions as he's not a computer savvy guy.. but.. i can supply anyone his email address privately.

You can't spell "Weird", wierdOne. I don't trust you

[Bluedawg]

US dollars.. that price includes shipping... once the few guitars he has now are sold, shipping won't be included in the price... and literally... the price will rise closer to 5,000.00

I wish I had the scratch ... I just might give it a go

but Christmas is coming ..


Or is it Winter is Coming .. ?

One of those

[wierdOne]

You can't spell "Weird", wierdOne. I don't trust you

I before E except after C.

I live by that rule.