Super Champ? XD/X2? Blues Deluxe? Alternatives?

[mangotango]

Hi Guys

Going to be in the market soon for a small, portable valve (tube) amp and have noticed the above-captioned in Fender's range. Deluxe too pricey/heavy. Budget not huge, so boutique not an option. 10-20 watts about right, 10" or 12" speaker.

Recommendations please? What's the (effective) difference between the X2 and XD? What about the simplicity of the Pro Junior?

Please note, regarding any alternatives:

MUST be readily available in the UK without importing
NOT looking for a solid-state amp here
No need for distortion, effects, etc.; reverb nice but not essential
Do NOT need some heavyweight that will strain this old bloke's back.

Thanks in advance

Mangotastico

[mtierney]

I'm not sure what your budget is like or whether or not you're willing to go used, but I'm absolutely in love with the Princeton Reverb. 1x10, 15 watts, simplistic controls, and it sounds great pretty much no matter what.

If you're into this sort of thing, it's also very easy to modify. I think I've preached about this on a few different threads already, but I replaced the front baffle on my Princeton with one that fits a 12 inch speaker and put in a Celestion G12 Century Vintage, which is a 3.5 pound (!!) neodymium speaker. Then I did the stokes mod, I'm now rated at 20ish watts. And the amp is maybe 25 pounds now.

It still has all of its princeton mojo and its tight bass response which makes me prefer it to the Deluxe Reverb, but is now the same wattage and the same speaker size as the Deluxe, while being almost half the weight. I couldn't be happier with it.

It also sounded fantastic before the mods though, don't get me wrong. I did the mods to give it a more full range and more volume/headroom for gigging purposes.


But in the mean time it's my understanding that the X2 has a more reliable effects processor, which is why the XD is discontinued. I realize you may not care about the effects, but it's also my understanding that if the effects section fails, then you've got a broken amp. Could be wrong though, I'm not an expert!

You may also consider Fender's new amp, the Excelsior. Simple design, all tube, with a 15" speaker. I played one once with a tele and it wasn't bad; I think an archtop or a semi would roll off a little of the harsher trebles and make it sound pretty nice. But I'll defer to someone who's tried it with an archtop or semi before making assumptions!

Hope that helped.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Isn't the X2 the Mustang amp plus power tubes? It doesn't sound like you are looking for a modeling amp.

People in the UK have been talking up the Mambo. Have you tried it? (I know it's SS, just wondering...)

[mangotango]

Isn't the X2 the Mustang amp plus power tubes? It doesn't sound like you are looking for a modeling amp.

People in the UK have been talking up the Mambo. Have you tried it? (I know it's SS, just wondering...)

No, though it's a popular topic of conversation with other guitarists to whom I talk; but, I already have a Henriksen. My direction here is pretty specific, and for a reason.

As for the X2 - I don't know much about it, hence my enquiry. If that's the case, then it wouldn't be my choice.

[jazzbow]

Hey MT

Did you check my Koch Jupiter thread, that is a S/S + tube hybrid, or the Hughes & Kettner Tubemeister 18 combo thread?

I've tried the H&K combo and I am really impressed with all its features. Its all tube with a massive transformer that'll cope with 8 or 16ohm speakers without any switching trickery. It does have digital reverb and a 10" speaker like the Fender X2. Go to their internet site for the full gen, they do a head version as well.
I found the clean channel very very clean with little hum even with single coils!
Give one a spin, no fussing with FX or amp simulations.

P.S. I'm still waiting for the P/U, will get in contact when it has arrived!

[miken]

I use a Peavey Classic 30 and really like it. Great tone, plenty loud, 12" speaker, not horrible heavy, tweed cover has vintage vibe to it. I had a Blues jr. and really did not like it, just a touch more portable, but I could not find a good tone on it. I don't know about in the UK, but in the USA a used one would be about the same or a bit less than a new X2 or XD. Just a thought.

[pingu]

The Princeton is nice but its £900 !!

[coolvinny]

I recently tried the SuperChamp XD (original) but it seemed to have some sort of problem that would result in inconsistent fizzy sounds coming out of it, so I returned it. I don't think it was a tube issue, as the store "fixed" the problem before I left by replacing the tubes, but then it started up again...however, with tubes you never really know for sure. I'm done with tubes...I'm too busy and lack the patience for things that break down.

[mtierney]

The Princeton is nice but its £900 !!

Right, right, I know it's a more expensive kind of boutique amp, a lot of people fondly call it a studio amp since it gets great cleans and overdrives without causing an earthquake, but! To my understanding, the Princeton reverb, like all Fender amps and guitars, has a flooded used market. I got mine at about half price on ebay, in great condition. I'm not sure what the used market is like in the UK, but considering the tone, transportability, low weight, high volumes considering, versatility, everything about it really, I think I paid a fair price.

But I do understand that it's an amp that's outside of a lot of people's budgets, which is why I had the disclaimer of if it's within budget.

+1 miken, I like the Peavey Classic 30 as well. But I feel like that's in the same ballpark as a Deluxe Reverb or even an AC15 as far as size. Could be wrong though, I've never owned one.....

[mambosun]

Hi Guys

Going to be in the market soon for a small, portable valve (tube) amp and have noticed the above-captioned in Fender's range. Deluxe too pricey/heavy. Budget not huge, so boutique not an option. 10-20 watts about right, 10" or 12" speaker.

Recommendations please? What's the (effective) difference between the X2 and XD? What about the simplicity of the Pro Junior?

Please note, regarding any alternatives:

MUST be readily available in the UK without importing
NOT looking for a solid-state amp here
No need for distortion, effects, etc.; reverb nice but not essential
Do NOT need some heavyweight that will strain this old bloke's back.

Thanks in advance

Mangotastico

My 2 cents,
Never buy before testing first.
beside this I warmly recommend the Scxd used or the X2 which is very similar, the clean channel is really sweet.
I've seen negative comments about the X2 being inferior sounding than the SCXD, but who knows?

[Double 07]

Isn't the X2 the Mustang amp plus power tubes? It doesn't sound like you are looking for a modeling amp.

Good point, well actually most of what people consider the "tube sound" comes from the power amp. That is the interaction of the power tubes and transformer with the speakers. Sure the preamp definitely does contribute to the tube tone but most of that "tube mojo" you're hearing is the power tubes interacting with the speakers.

For example that's why most high gain tube amps designed for rock players usually don't sound best for clean jazz music, even if they have a clean preamp channel. It's because the power amp on those amps is designed or optimized for high gain sounds rather than fat punchy clean. I read an article by Heartley Peavey once where he was discussing just that issue and he said that.

[Doctor Jeff]

I have the SCXD and have had no problems with it whatsoever. It's a great versatile little amp. I use the "clean" channel mostly--no extraneous noise. It has a 10" speaker but some have replaced it with a larger one, or you can plug it into a cabinet (it's 8 ohms). Fender makes a 1x12 cabinet specifically for the SCXD head.

IMO Fender's change to the X2 wasn't so much a response to quality issues as a way to make it more versatile and therefore more marketable by making it upgradeable via software.

I had a Peavey Classic 30--nice amp but pretty heavy (40+ pounds) and bulky. Also LOUD--not very suitable for the living room. Peavey used to make a Classic 20 which you can find second-hand--that would've been more to my liking. I don't think the 20 had reverb though...

Re' the Fender Excelsior--looks cool, you gotta admire an amp with an accordion input....But, no tone controls and has tremolo but no reverb. It you want to go the minimalist tube amp route I would also suggest the Epiphone Valve Jr. 5 watts, can plug into a larger cab (4,8,16 ohms) and very loud for its size. No reverb.

[D.G.]

Blues Jr or Pro Jr, depending on your needs. I own a PJ and I think it has a sweeter tone than the BJ, but I've heard a lot of guys sound really great on the BJ, so YMMV.

The Excelsior is NOT a good choice UNLESS you're looking for some really old-style mojo. It's basically a scaled up Champion 600. Really heavy (particle board cab) and the overdrive tone is extremely "ratty" which is great for some styles, awful for others

My main gigging amp is a Princeton (PRRI) which I believe is the best amp ever made. But it can be volume challenged if you're playing with a drummer.

[Frank67]

I like my SCXD. It does provide a classic prototypical 7ender clean tone on channel 1 and then a bunch of others on channel 2 that i never cared about too much (but that are entirely usable as well). If the treble is turned down all the way I also like the jazz tone on channel 1. Otherwise it is quite bright but in a good way. It is plenty loud for bedroom playing but not powerful enough to play with a drummer. I also have read negative comments about the x2 that I find hard to believe (but i haven't tried one). I think the fact that the XD and X2 are tube based makes them more dynamic and organic sounding than the mustang series - but the latter is also quite nice (and dirt cheap)

[JazzyJim]

I used one, and sometimes two in stereo, Pro Jr's for donkeys and always loved the sound. It is absolutely not "Fender-voiced" though, so if the classic Blackface tone is what you're looking for, it's probably not for you. They work like a demon though, and I had no problems with either or my Pro's after xxxx number of gigs. They are a little noisy (hiss), though. Even the quiet ones i've played over the years are noisy compared to my Jazzkat.
If you're looking at the Pro's, try the Blues Jrs, although I think the Pro's sound better, even with the 10" speaker.

At the kind of price range you're in, you're good to go for any number of el84 amps - just make sure that it's not the 6L6 flavour you really want, or you'll be disappointed and end up trading down the line for a Princeton, in my experience.

[pingu]

Will a pro jnr keep up with a drummer clean volume wise ?
not a really loud drummer just moderate , you know

If so thats a really good simple , cheap(ish) option
for people who need zee tubes

[coolvinny]

I think anyone considering a Princeton owes it to themself to consider stretching for the Vintage Sound equivalent model. It's around $1,400 but I bet in the long run it's worth the difference. If was going tube, that's what I would buy.

Check out the Sound Island website - I have no affiliation with them other than having bought some smaller items and being impressed with their service.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I think anyone considering a Princeton owes it to themself to consider stretching for the Vintage Sound equivalent model. It's around $1,400 but I bet in the long run it's worth the difference. If was going tube, that's what I would buy.

Check out the Sound Island website - I have no affiliation with them other than having bought some smaller items and being impressed with their service.

Hey, I was just drooling other those amps. Around the 1x15" combos, I started touching myself!

And they're not expensive compared to the Euro-amps Sound Island carries.

[va3ux]

I have the SCXD and have had no problems with it whatsoever. It's a great versatile little amp. I use the "clean" channel mostly--no extraneous noise.

SCXD here too and same experience as you. Great little hybrid tube amp.

[TymmeRMortis]

I have the SC X2 (think the XD is no longer available) and cannot praise the clean channel enough. Yes, there's a bucketload of voices on channel two (editable with the FUSE software), and I played with them for a couple of weeks when I first got the amp, but that's what you do with a new toy. Bleh.

The effects can be really nice, for some tunes, but if you might want to use any of them, then do get the SuperChamp pedal so you can switch them in and out.

[JazzyJim]

Will a pro jnr keep up with a drummer clean volume wise ?
not a really loud drummer just moderate , you know

If so thats a really good simple , cheap(ish) option
for people who need zee tubes

With some cleaner sounding tubes and either singlecoils or minihumbuckers, I was still clean playing with drums and piano.

[mangotango]

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

In addition to playing at home and using this amp for non-loud duo work, I'm also thinking that for the quartet, I might use it in tandem with the Henriksen as Benson and Kreisberg did/do with Polytones and Fenders. That's why I'm not really interested in hybrids so much, as that combination of amps would yield a "hybrid" sound anyway.

And I don't want any more available volume than that as I'm trying to keep a balance over transporting tons of stuff around; adding a big amp is just too much like hard work!

[IbanezAS100]

Mango,

If you're not in a rush and don't mind buying used, a Cornell Romany might be a great deal-the older version sells for £400-500. I've played it a few times and really liked the sound.

Also, although not a Fender type amp, the Koch Studiotone has lovely cleans and weighs very little. I've played it with a friend's 175 and was really tempted to get one.

And then there's this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Musicman-R...item4d07cad934

which I think will give the Superchamp a run for its money, despite the 'solid-state' part...

Best of luck and let us know what you end up with...

[junkergeorge]

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

In addition to playing at home and using this amp for non-loud duo work, I'm also thinking that for the quartet, I might use it in tandem with the Henriksen as Benson and Kreisberg did/do with Polytones and Fenders. That's why I'm not really interested in hybrids so much, as that combination of amps would yield a "hybrid" sound anyway.

And I don't want any more available volume than that as I'm trying to keep a balance over transporting tons of stuff around; adding a big amp is just too much like hard work!

Hi mangotango, as an alternative, sometimes a good 6v6 boutique amp comes up on e*bay that puts it near to the range of what you're looking for. For example, I've seen the Swart Space Tone (check out the videos on the page to hear it) on e*bay for as little as $575. There's a UK dealer for the amp as well, but that puts it back up into boutique price range. It might be worth it to save a search for it on e*bay in the UK and see if one comes up in the price range you're looking for.

All the best!

[peterpanico]

My two cents,since I had one,avoid the "Chinese" Fender line of amps,
the small Champ Xds or whatever they call them now .....