Can anyone tell me more about the Bendetto Americana

**shawntp** · 12-17-2012, 03:01 PM

I am really intrigued by this model because of its price point (just under 10K) vs the Manhattan that is double the price.

"the more gig-friendly version of our 17" carved guitars"

"Designed by Bob specifically to take advantage of our vast inventory of fine musical instrument grade tonewoods"

Just from looking at specs it seems the Manhattan/Fratello differ from the Americana in that they use more premium European tonewoods, having some premium appointments (binding/etc), bracing, and have floating pickup vs a split coil-tap humbucker.

The Americana seems like it would be a real value/sleeper in the Benedetto lineup. I am just curious/surprised a little how this could be priced at half that of the next 17" model up the line from wood and appointments alone and how it compares being the least expensive fully carved instrument in the Benedetto line.

From what I can tell this just came out in 2009 so I guess its still a fairly new model.

**Jabberwocky** · 12-17-2012, 03:52 PM

You could get an Heritage Golden Eagle with a tap-tuned spruce top AND a Mark Campellone Standard 17" for $10 000.00. You will have two guitars that will pretty much sound and play just as well as the Benedetto Americana.

Sorry, it is tangential to your query but it does not look like particularly good value stacked against the 17" Heritage Golden Eagle and Mark Campellone Standard 17". Steve Andersen could make you a 17" Vanguard for $8200 for a truly one-luthier crafted bespoke archtop. (And Mark Campellone too.)

www.andersenguitars.com
www.mcampellone.com
www.heritageguitar.com

Just setting the pigeons against the cat.

**PTChristopher** · 12-17-2012, 04:10 PM

Hiya Shawn,

>>> The Americana seems like it would be a real value/sleeper in the Benedetto lineup.

In my opinion that is a very accurate summary.

Now as J'wock points out, this really just means that Benedetto Guitars choose to position a guitar in direct competition to the options he mentions.

So is it a bargain in the Benedetto line?

Yep.

Are you still paying some for the Benedetto name?

Yep.

Are we in a period of fantastic opportunities to get fantastic guitars from many sources?

Yep.

Is 10K quatloos a quite good price compared to similar workmanship as a % of disposable income over the last 4 generations.

Yep.

Are the Andersen and Campellone propositions possibly the best-value route to the eternal sort of master luthier vibe we all get dewey-eyed about on occasion?

Yep.

Does Heritage represent a significant workmanship and material choice benefit vs. the company of their origins?

Yep.

Is the real problem, deciding which fine proposition best suits you?

Yep.

In my pessimistic opinion.

Chris

**shawntp** · 12-17-2012, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

Is the real problem, deciding which fine proposition best suits you?

Yep.

In my pessimistic opinion.

Yes, one couldn't hope to be in a better time and place for such a predicament.

**PTChristopher** · 12-17-2012, 04:25 PM

Well I would not mind London in 1966 (too young for that) or Paris in the later '80's (did that), but yeah - here and now is quite good too.

(With a nod to recent deep trouble, and sympathy to the families affected by last weeks disaster in Connecticut.)

Chris

**PTChristopher** · 12-17-2012, 04:27 PM

In my opinion the Americana can be spun as a wood supply somethingorother.

But there was really a big hole in the Benedetto product line right there - so they filled it with a really fine guitar.

In my opinion.

Chris

**iim7V7IM7** · 12-17-2012, 05:06 PM

You have received some excellent responses so far (some made me laugh to boot!).

You need to decide whether you want a team built "Benedetto" or a number of other individually built options by master archtop luthiers for a similar price. For example:

Andersen - Vanguard $8,200
Buscarino - Prodigy $9,000
Campellone - Special $7,595
Comins - Concert $8,500
Grimes - Art Nouveau $8,500
Lacey - Argonaut $10,000
Megas - Athena $8,600

I think that you may find that a number of these have features that may interest you and a level of decoration or customization that you wont find in an Americana. The 7 models that I cited are all crafted by individual master luthiers and can be customized to some extent to your particular playing needs. None of them will say "Benedetto" which may be important to you.

While I truly admire Bob and what he has done for the World of artisan archtops; I feel that he now has a factory business like Bourgeois, Collings and Santa Cruz that produces impeccable instruments of his designs made to his specifications and techniques. But in the end of the day; they are team instruments. You are paying a premium for the name of the innovator/master for a guitar built by his apprentices.

If you need the name, get the Americana. It is a great guitar and you will likely be happy. If you want to broaden your horizons and get an instrument made by an individual consider some of these options.

Good Luck!

**marcwhy** · 12-18-2012, 09:11 AM

So Shawn, are you seriously looking at this guitar, or just curious? Are you wanting a nice, custom guitar, or are you wanting a "Benedetto" guitar specifically?

**shawntp** · 12-18-2012, 10:02 AM

I am just trying to understand more about the price points/compromises of Benedetto in this thread. I have played a few Archtops but Collings and Benedetto are the only boutique ones I've been able to get my hands on.

I have played Rock/Blues for 25 years (since age 10) and I had a musical awakening a year ago with Jazz. I have been taking lessons from a great pro jazz player and honestly its all I want to do musically. I shed a LOT of high end gear last year because all I want to play anymore is an Archtop (plugged and unplugged). I bought a Collings Eastside LC that receives all my attention and I would eventually like a carved top that is just as nice or nicer. I do gig a couple times a month and record for hobby also.

I am just gaining understanding at the moment and don't plan on buying another guitar for many months when I have played many models. The Benedetto's are certainly catching my attention because they are of the few I have seen. I actually have brand loyalty to Collings (own or have owned several electrics, a mandolin, a flat top, and even a Uke).
I must admit the Benedetto models that actually appealed to me aesthetically are the La Venezia and Bravo Elite (violin finish). I might get a chance to play a Bravo Elite this week just to compare it to my laminate Eastside of similar profile. I am thinking I want 17"x3" carved top but there are too many guitars to play until I know for sure I am also becoming really agreeable with my 16"x2.5 Eastside.

**Darwin_Hoel** · 12-18-2012, 10:16 AM

Are you opposed to a used guitar? I often she used Benedetto's for under 10K. There is a Fratello at archtop.com right now for a bit north of 8K and it lists for about 18K, just a thought.

**iim7V7IM7** · 12-18-2012, 11:37 AM

**Broyale** · 12-18-2012, 11:45 AM

I can vouch for that Triggs at Killer Vintage. Its a super nice instrument and sounds great. That's where I got my H575, they're good guys.

**coolvinny** · 12-18-2012, 12:05 PM

I love a fancy guitar as much as the next guy, but still I find it hard to call a $10K guitar "real value" or "a sleeper".

In that price range, I'd definitely look at an Andersen, which are at least still made by one master luthier and, from what I can tell, keep their value very well.

I'd lean towards an Andersen in that price range.

**Spook410** · 12-18-2012, 12:15 PM

then there is the Benedetto Manhattan at Guitar Center in Houston for $13,500. I played it yesterday. it really is in mint condition though I admit I don't get the value proposition. Not like angels flew out of the F holes.

**shawntp** · 12-18-2012, 12:17 PM

Thanks for all the leads folks. I would be fine with used instruments (probably a greater than 50% chance I will go that way anyways if the opportunity presents itself).

For now the Eastside is the perfect gigging guitar (other than price and keeping it from getting marks) so I really am just looking for the perfect archtop for myself. I am not really going to let price dictate my choice (within reason). Literally all I do besides work/be a husband is play guitar. I am a total utter minimalist gear/possession/life wise (I do not even own my own car as I have a home office in the middle of the city). I would just as soon spend 20K on a guitar than a car. That said its obvious the law of diminishing returns for carved guitars seems to kick in fast somewhere over 5K so this is probably the price range I plan to audition the most. The La Venezia looks nice but at 20K it becomes an emotional purchase. I suppose the same could be said for something at 10K vs something else at 5K and so on. My friends/colleagues all have $40K+ cars that drive just as well as my wife's $20K car yet they all envy that I can manage my daily life on a $300 bike (and have for 8 years while they all go through car after car).

From my initial Bendetto Americana question it would seem they have a somewhat flexible business design that allows them to scale production costs. I would be interested to know the profitability of each model but we'll never know. Perhaps a simpler bracing design, lesser cost woods, less man hours on the guitar/etc. I know Collings seems to cut like $1000 off of guitar prices just in trim work (and if you have ever seen the deluxe grained ivoroid bindings they do you could imagine why). In the end I guess it just ends up being man hours into the instrument plus profit needs to sustain your business.

Small things can equate to a lot of bench hours.

From my limited time in this community I can tell there is a lot of admiration for Andersen. I see there are many people choosing his builds when compared to others (more and less expensive without price being the primary factor).

**coolvinny** · 12-18-2012, 12:41 PM

Sounds like you are thinking about this the right way. The only relevant thing you have not mentioned is 'resale'. You need to think resale because it is very possible that the guitar will not be your "forever" guitar. If you go used, this is less of a risk since you can try it beforehand...but even still it is hard to predict which guitars you will really bond with. Given that you seem to hate wasting money, I am thinking you would hate to take a bath on reselling a pricy guitar...and some pricy guitars will be harder to resell (which means less money to you) than others. I do think the Americana is one of them, because it's still a very pricy guitar yet without the "built by a master" aura. I don't mean to bash Benedetto - clearly they are doing very well and their instruments are very popular. Just keep your eye on the relevant factors so you make the right choice.

**iim7V7IM7** · 12-18-2012, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by shawntp

Thanks for all the leads folks. I would be fine with used instruments (probably a greater than 50% chance I will go that way anyways if the opportunity presents itself).

For now the Eastside is the perfect gigging guitar (other than price and keeping it from getting marks) so I really am just looking for the perfect archtop for myself. I am not really going to let price dictate my choice (within reason). Literally all I do besides work/be a husband is play guitar. I am a total utter minimalist gear/possession/life wise (I do not even own my own car as I have a home office in the middle of the city). I would just as soon spend 20K on a guitar than a car. That said its obvious the law of diminishing returns for carved guitars seems to kick in fast somewhere over 5K so this is probably the price range I plan to audition the most. The La Venezia looks nice but at 20K it becomes an emotional purchase. I suppose the same could be said for something at 10K vs something else at 5K and so on. My friends/colleagues all have $40K+ cars that drive just as well as my wife's $20K car yet they all envy that I can manage my daily life on a $300 bike (and have for 8 years while they all go through car after car).

From my initial Bendetto Americana question it would seem they have a somewhat flexible business design that allows them to scale production costs. I would be interested to know the profitability of each model but we'll never know. Perhaps a simpler bracing design, lesser cost woods, less man hours on the guitar/etc. I know Collings seems to cut like $1000 off of guitar prices just in trim work (and if you have ever seen the deluxe grained ivoroid bindings they do you could imagine why). In the end I guess it just ends up being man hours into the instrument plus profit needs to sustain your business.

Small things can equate to a lot of bench hours.

From my limited time in this community I can tell there is a lot of admiration for Andersen. I see there are many people choosing his builds when compared to others (more and less expensive without price being the primary factor).

If it was me, I would talk with Steve Andersen, Mark Campellone and Bill Comins. Explain what you are looking for and have a discussion. See who you feel most comfortable with.

All three are master luthiers and can make you an instrument in the <$10k price range. I personally would chose an instrument made by any one of these gentlemen over a team-factory instrument at the bottom end of Bob Benedetto's range. Hey, but that's just me. Other's might chose otherwise.

Food for Thought...

**rpguitar** · 12-18-2012, 03:11 PM

My two cents:

From a quality perspective, I think that all guitars in that price range are going to be equivalent within all reason. The differences are infinitesimal. They are made extremely well and should be exquisite.

From a player's standpoint, it comes down to feel, tone, and aesthetics- and we all have our subjective preferences.

From a value standpoint, my take on Benedetto is that he has diluted his cachet by building his non-stratospherically priced guitars on a small assembly line. You no longer get Bob at the work bench. I believe that quality does not suffer, but value does, because of that perception. I would not pay $10K for a team-built Benedetto.

Now, you normally would have no reason to care what I would pay, except for the resale equation that was just mentioned. So... you ultimately do care. A buyer will look for a bargain because, even at a $3-4k loss compared to your initial investment, the guitar is still competing with lots of really good luthiers charging $6-7K for a brand new, bespoke guitar.

Finally, for me, the one on one luthier interaction - the periodic phone call, the emails, the shop photos - is an experience you get with a one man shop. It's an enjoyable privilege that you pay for, but ultimately derive "life value points" from. Three of the luthiers I've commissioned guitars from became acquaintances that I still communicate with. One has been in my kitchen with a beverage in hand, and I've had dinner with another of them. This is meaningful, even though it might seem extraneous to the process of buying and playing a guitar.

Again, it's two cents, and it's one person's perspective. But the market is so richly varied that it pays to look beyond the label if you are really seeking an instrument first and foremost.