Fender Twin Reverb Speakers

**OPherman47** · 05-23-2013, 05:24 PM

anybody have any thoughts on the fender twins with the blue speakers vs the JBL's?

**BeBopBeCool** · 05-23-2013, 05:36 PM

Yesterday i played one with vintage v 30. Simply great. I know it's what you asked but i had to tell!

**docbop** · 05-23-2013, 06:08 PM

The JBL's were all about wide range clean sound. The other speakers were standard guitar speakers less range and will give you some grit when pushed. Some didn't like the sparkly highs and rubbery bottom of JBL's not to mention the additional weight of the JBL's. Think of JBL vs standard speakers kind of like SS vs tube.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 05-23-2013, 06:36 PM

Or EVs for that matter. Even heavier?

**GNAPPI** · 05-23-2013, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by BeBopBeCool

Yesterday i played one with vintage v 30. Simply great. I know it's what you asked but i had to tell!

\

I've owned Twins with both the Fender and JBL's and the problem with the Fender speakers in a twin is they really should be in a 50 watt pro reverb type amp, twins blow them. I've replaced speakers in several twins with improved re-cones but ultimately they had to go.

JBL's are far better (and heavier), but the Vintage 30's are righteous speakers and will not blow in a twin even if you find yourself playing an outdoor venue in a gale wind with a 12 piece band behind you :-)

**Tom Karol** · 05-23-2013, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Or EVs for that matter. Even heavier?

I've mentioned this before: I had a Twin Reverb with EV SRO speakers back in the day; it weighed 90 pounds!

**OPherman47** · 05-24-2013, 01:56 AM

it seems hard to find one with the JBL's used somehow.... tons of the ones with the blue speakers.... I love vintage 30's btw... hmmmm gotta figue a way to hear the two side by side.... any other thoughts? are the JBL's like real recent or what?

**Little Jay** · 05-24-2013, 07:20 AM

Ah... my favorite subject: Twin Reverbs!

By "blue speakers" I asssume you mean the speakers with the blue Fender labels on them? Those can be produced by either Oxford, Utah, Pyle or Eminence, depending on in what year your Twin was manufactured. I think even the old Jensens of the first blackface Twins were produced with the blue labels at some point, so the term "blue speakers" is a bit generic.

All the above mentioned brands have their pro's and con's. Old Jensens are usually considered to be the Holy Grail for a Twin, but I have never played on a Twin with those, so I can't comment on that.

I have played on a '76 Twin with Blue-Label Oxford speakers, and was able to A/B those with modern Jensen C12Ks and Jensen NEO 12-100s (by playing the same amp thru the different speaker cabinets) and of those I liked the Oxfords best (unfortunately those were not mine), although both the C12K and the Neo are fine speakers for a Twin that sound great and can easily handle the power. To my ears the Jensens coloured the sound a bit in a (slightly) dark way, which can be a good thing for jazz, the C12K sounding a bit darker than the Neo..

My own Twin came with a mismatched pair of Fender Blue Labels with no manufactures codes on them, but I'm guessing they are Eminence-made and produced in the 80ies. I didn't care for those and they had small magnets, so they couldn't handle the power all too well. I changed those out for C12Ks and later for Jensen Neos to reduce the weight, but I was actually hunting for a pair of old Oxfords, since I really liked those. On the way I came across a pair of Fender Blue labeled Pyle speakers. Pyle is generally considered to be the least desirable brand amongst the vintage Twin-speakers, but they were cheap ($60 a pair) and I gave 'em a try... loved them better than all the other speakers I had tried before, so those are still in my Twin!

An EV is a great speaker, very efficiënt, thus making your Twin sound even louder (I don't need that) but to some they may sound a bit too hi-fi (I quite like them, especially for jazz). The same goes for JBL, but I don't have a lot experience with those. Although I like EVMs, the extra added weight (and cost!) to me is not worth the tonal benefit, the Pyles sound great too and are less than half the weight of EVs.

(Just for the record: my current "Twin" is a vintage Japanese Guyatone Twin-clone, that I brought back to Blackface-specs - AB763 - myself, but running on slightly higher pre-amp voltages, thus staying a little cleaner when pushed.)

**jorgemg1984** · 05-24-2013, 07:55 AM

Little Jay the Neos have a very noticeable 150hz spike - with the jazzmaster ultralight (blackface preamp) I need to run the bass too low for example.

I assume the same with a Twin... the blackface preamp already has too much bass for an archtop / paf / heavy strings combination, I assume the Neos will only make this worst. I think one of the reasons of the blackface preamp is made that weay is precisely old spakers had very little lows so the preamp had a lot of bass to compensate that - but that leads to excess of bass with modern speakers. Running the bass too low with blackface amps leads to loosing the few amount of low mids you have in the amp... how do you deal with that without using an eq pedal? Mid knobs are useless on these amps.

I never tried an EV with a Fender but I don't imagine it being a good combination.. although I love them with "jazz amps". The EV SRO is another talk because it's alnico, should work well - WGS Blackhawk is a modern take on those, much lighter but also less efficient, which is not a problem with a Twin. I personally hate V30s... check WGS speakers, Blackhawk or others - cheap and have excellent reputation. The ET-65 is famous for jazz.

**OPherman47** · 05-24-2013, 08:52 AM

any thoughts on tone tubby or webers?

**2bornot2bop** · 05-24-2013, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by OPherman47

any thoughts on tone tubby or webers?

Webers, exactly what I'd suggest. Classic British blue dawgs, or one each of a Weber ceramic and a Weber Alninco. That's the configuration that arrived in a boutique ptp Twin style, and as it turned out the speaker configuration was right on...for each speaker compliments the other better than the pair of Weber ceramics I had in a former actual fender twin.

**Little Jay** · 05-27-2013, 04:00 AM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Little Jay the Neos have a very noticeable 150hz spike - with the jazzmaster ultralight (blackface preamp) I need to run the bass too low for example.

I assume the same with a Twin... the blackface preamp already has too much bass for an archtop / paf / heavy strings combination, I assume the Neos will only make this worst. I think one of the reasons of the blackface preamp is made that weay is precisely old spakers had very little lows so the preamp had a lot of bass to compensate that - but that leads to excess of bass with modern speakers. Running the bass too low with blackface amps leads to loosing the few amount of low mids you have in the amp... how do you deal with that without using an eq pedal? Mid knobs are useless on these amps.

I never tried an EV with a Fender but I don't imagine it being a good combination.. although I love them with "jazz amps". The EV SRO is another talk because it's alnico, should work well - WGS Blackhawk is a modern take on those, much lighter but also less efficient, which is not a problem with a Twin. I personally hate V30s... check WGS speakers, Blackhawk or others - cheap and have excellent reputation. The ET-65 is famous for jazz.

Jorge, I think you're right, but I never really have (or had) a problem with that, not with the Neos or the C12Ks, nor with the Pyles. Yes, it's is easily possible to dial in too much bass, but I find turning down the bass-knob solves that problem without sacrificing mids. I must say I do like the 'scooped' sound, so maybe my ear doesn't need to hear the same amount of mids as yours and secondly, my Twin had a 25K mid pot (as opposed to the 10K of the original), thus making to pre amp react a little different (and allowing for dialing in more mids).

But it's a good consideration when choosing speakers for a Twin! (Or any amp for that matter.)

**jorgemg1984** · 05-27-2013, 06:18 AM

Thanks Jay - I don't like my sound very scooped so that's why I like speakers with tight bass on blackface amps so I can run the bass on 3 / 4 and don't make the amp even more scooped... I've noticed that mod but if the Tone Stack Calc is right it will only give you more gain but the frequency curve will not change. Changing the mids cap to 22n (as the Super Reverb) seems to yeld more mids than changing the pot... But our ears are more important than graphics

But if one does not mind the bass issue the Neos are for certain a good choice - less weight on a Twin is always good and they have a sort of "hi fi" sound that works very well for jazz.

Thanks for the reply!

**yebdox** · 05-27-2013, 10:47 AM

I have a Twin that began as a 73 Dual Showman and was black faced by Rick Weber of Vintage Sound. It came with Weber Californias, but those sounded too sterile for me, so I replaced them with Celestion GT-65's and the amp warmed up without losing the clarity. Definitely not a neutral sound, but lovely with an archtop straight in, and takes pedals better than the webers, which always sound a little fizzy to me.

I run it (at home) with volume on 3, treble 5, mids 3 or 4, bass 3 or 4 and pedal reverb and delay. Not as heavy as with EV's, but not something I bring up from the basement very often, either

Gigged with it in a funk fusion band and it was perfect for headroom, taking pedals, etc.

**jorgemg1984** · 05-27-2013, 03:20 PM

The ET-65 make me very curious... but I do not need more cabs / speakers. Maybe one day

**kawa** · 05-27-2013, 11:57 PM

Almost the blue one which Fender special is good with fender sounds.

JBL is too boxy for jazz.

sorry Japanese.

Twin Reverb ”NŽ®•\

http://stby.jp/twin-3.html

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...ilverface.html

Rola ; Best Sounds
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FENDER-ROLA-...-/171040850441
https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=fe...w=1280&bih=643

**mambosun** · 05-30-2013, 05:21 AM

In my humble experience, JBL sound more shrilling and aggressive than the blue labeled speaker, a bit too hot for my taste, not to mention the extra weight.

Regarding no-brand blue labeled speakers you'll have to add Rola (Celestion) or CTS; while trying to date my amp, I found that my Twin Reverb SF 1974 has two Rola's..

**gratay** · 05-31-2013, 01:23 AM

I've had 3 twins over the years with various speakers....The blue oxfords, celestions , EV12's , even boogie black shadows..
My current is a vintagesoundamps blackface twin w/ weber california's w/- paper cone. Fantastic sounding speakers.
Supposedly JBL clones but they sure don't have any shrill high end.. Not brittle at all.. Just fat and warm.

**kawa** · 05-31-2013, 04:11 AM

http://www.recycledsound.net/8_Speaker_EIA_codes.pdf

**mambosun** · 05-31-2013, 07:19 AM

What I learnt from a famous Fender amp tech & specialist in Paris: the Twin Reverb equipped with JBL is more suitable to play Fender Rhodes than guitar.
The extra bandwith of this JBL speaker helped to faithfully reproduce piano full range sound.
I assume that improved sensitivity and better power handling from the JBL's were particulary appreciated by Rhodes player, unlikely guitarist who often like a touch of dirt/ break in their tone.

**Keira Witherkay** · 05-31-2013, 11:15 AM

I have some old original blue label fender speakers , i believe to be oxfords but not too sure , they came from a 60's 4x 12 , and i can say that for my jazz tone , they sound amazing , and yes not too powerful ... But a creamy warm tone from any amp driving them , very different than modern speakers , and decidedly vintage sounding even with solid state amps ..

**Double 07** · 05-31-2013, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by BeBopBeCool

Yesterday i played one with vintage v 30. Simply great. I know it's what you asked but i had to tell!

V 30's with a Twin? WoW are those good speakers for jazz?

**OPherman47** · 05-31-2013, 08:16 PM

so i think im gonna go for the jensens that come in them standard now... seems middle of the road and i cant ever find the JBL's.... interesting thoughts on the Rhodes going through the JBL would make sense as they do make a 1x15 instead of 2x12 twin if im not mistaken...

so now i guess the question is jensens or random fender blue speaker? (i think im siding more with the Jensens) i have not heard anyone rave about the blues